In the News today

[getsome]

The paper did an interview today with the leader/spokesman of the Occupy Atlanta Protest "Tim Frazen" 34 years old and hanging out with a bunch of 20 something year old college students for two weeks in Atlanta's Woodruff Park for some reason...

They asked him some basic questions about the protest and if he and his pals way of thinking is the future then we are in big trouble boys and girls...Here are some sample questions....

Question: What exactly do you want?
Answer: I want a country where we don't have all the wealth consolidated to the point where it muffles the voice of the people and prevents them from having a life that is just and fair...

Question: What does that mean:
Answer: Tim pointing to the Georgia Pacific Headquarters Tower, See that Georgia Pacific sign? Thats the Eye of Sauron looking down on humanity...

Question: What is the Eye of Sauron?
Answer: You know from the "Lord of the Rings"...I'm making an analogy...Thats the Koch Brothers up there (Koch Industries owns Georgia Pacific and lots of other companies) They sit up there and look down on the little people out here and the only way for us to get our fair share is to force the Koch brothers to divest their overabundance and spread it around to the less fortunate people out here who need and deserve it...

Question: So you want higher taxes on the wealthy?
Answer: Of course, there should be laws made to use the Power of the Federal Government to take away the wealth of the super rich and redistribute it to those less fortunate that deserve a better more comfortable life....

Well the article goes on and they interview several more of the protesters and all had pretty much the same thing to say....

I am sad to say that if things continue with the way this next generation thinks and the people they will vote for in future elections then we will have to change the name of our once great country to "The United Socialist States of America"....This whole thing makes me want to :puke:

[jocko]

socialism at its best. sounds like exiles from GREECE..

seems for every one of the protestors who has a CLUE 10 are clueless. si if they have been camping ouot for over two weeks in these parks, does this mean the colleges let them out on leave to demonstarte, does it mean mom and ad are real proud that their sons and daughters have moved out ofthe basement and into the streets, or their boss said heh take a couple weeks off and go demonstrate, or can they spell JOBS.. We give um to much coverage on TV.

[yqtszhj]

FOOLS I tell you. Thats what they are.

[OldLincoln]

They seem to feel that way until it applies to distributing their wealth to those "less fortunate" then them.

[yqtszhj]

They have no idea how many jobs Georgia Pacific provide and they are good jobs. A mill worker with a few skills can make a fine wage in rural areas. They actually export products.

OK, I deleted all of my really critical comments. I'm done now.

[LMT42]

seems for every one of the protestors who has a CLUE 10 are clueless.

Hammer meet nail, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are a few that have a clue, and the below demands are just and reasonable; http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Let me be clear that I'm not for socialism or any redistribution of wealth. If you work hard and make a nice life for yourself, you deserve it! However, the issue isn't raising taxes on the rich, it's closing loopholes that allow the rich to keep from paying their share. When General Electric earns five billion in profits, and doesn't pay any taxes, there's something very wrong with the picture. IMO, we need to reenact Glass Steagall, get corporate money out of Washington, and rewrite the tax code. That would be a good start anyway.

[LaP]

About 15 - 20 years ago, a study was done on redistribution of wealth. The conclusion of the study summed it up this way:
Those that were wealthy before redistribution were likely to be rich after it also...and those that were poor would be poor afterwards also.

You can't redistribute intelligence. Just look at the "people" demonstrating on Wall Street. It they won the lottery today, they'd be broke by next week.:cool:

[O'Dell]

Hey Getsome, you left out the part where he said that if the Koch brothers didn't come across by 5:30 this afternoon they were going to levitate the Georgia Pacific building. I waited all afternoon to see that.

[tv_racin_fan]

Hammer meet nail, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are a few that have a clue, and the below demands are just and reasonable; http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Let me be clear that I'm not for socialism or any redistribution of wealth. If you work hard and make a nice life for yourself, you deserve it! However, the issue isn't raising taxes on the rich, it's closing loopholes that allow the rich to keep from paying their share. When General Electric earns five billion in profits, and doesn't pay any taxes, there's something very wrong with the picture. IMO, we need to reenact Glass Steagall, get corporate money out of Washington, and rewrite the tax code. That would be a good start anyway.

I would agree we need to rewrite the tax code. I would agree that Glass Steagal needs to be reenacted.

Do you know why GE did not pay any federal income taxes for the past two years and has some credit left for this year?

It's because their credit division lost billions a couple years back. You pay taxes on income not losses and as a business you get to carry those losses over for a couple of years.

Just the same I agree about getting rid of those tax deductions. Like the mortgage deduction, why should a renter have to subsidize someone with a mortgage? AND the mortgage deduction benefits the man with the $500k mortgage more than it does the man with the $75k mortgage (stick it to them rich guys!!). I love the term loophole for deductions. Lets get rid of that ole childcare loophole too.

The truth is everyone likes their deductions and hates the loopholes that they don't get. IF you bother to actually study the tax code you find that many of those deductions if not all phase out for the upper brackets.

I'm all for simplifying the code. Think everyone who earns an income should pay a little.

What about:
$0 to $5000 income = 1% federal income tax rate
$5001 to $10,000 income = 2% federal income tax rate
$10,001 to $15,000 income = 3% federal income tax rate
$15,001 to $20,000 income = 4% federal income tax rate
$20.001 to $25,000 income = 5% federal income tax rate
etc up to 35%

[JimBianchi]

TV,

You realize that renters with kids use our public schools for free?

We home owners, Here in Vegas that's 630,000 homes (46% of the families. Before the crash it was 52% or so) supporting the 2.2million people. More than half the valley lives in apartments, and by an large they have the same amount of children as everyone else. Renters use the schools for free. Even though we as a state are broke, we increased our expenditures for public schools, AGAIN! With our tax base shrinking (fewer homeowners), but more people here than 10 years ago. Gee I wonder who is leeching the system? RENTERS!

I say charge a property tax on RENTERS equal to the equivalent that we home owners pay. Go with square foot age. I pay $1400 a year on my 2100sq foot house. So your 800sqf apartment should be tax at $550 per year.

That will do it.

Not living within our means, not shrinking government, not being responsible, I say tax the rest of the people who don't pay property tax.

Also, tax the single mothers, you know the ones making less than poverty wage and supporting kids.

Yep, more taxes are the solution.

Nothing else makes sense.

[mr surveyor]

I don't know about Vegas, but in Texas Mr. Landlord pays property tax on his commercial rent property, and you can bet that cost is passed on to his renters. No doubt it's probably not the same amount per sq ft as the homeowner when all said and done.

[Rainman48314]

TV,

You realize that renters with kids use our public schools for free?

We home owners, Here in Vegas that's 630,000 homes (46% of the families. Before the crash it was 52% or so) supporting the 2.2million people. More than half the valley lives in apartments, and by an large they have the same amount of children as everyone else. Renters use the schools for free. Even though we as a state are broke, we increased our expenditures for public schools, AGAIN! With our tax base shrinking (fewer homeowners), but more people here than 10 years ago. Gee I wonder who is leeching the system? RENTERS!

I say charge a property tax on RENTERS equal to the equivalent that we home owners pay. Go with square foot age. I pay $1400 a year on my 2100sq foot house. So your 800sqf apartment should be tax at $550 per year.

That will do it.

Not living within our means, not shrinking government, not being responsible, I say tax the rest of the people who don't pay property tax.

Also, tax the single mothers, you know the ones making less than poverty wage and supporting kids.

Yep, more taxes are the solution.

Nothing else makes sense.In Michigan, it is made very clear that RENTERS also pay real estate taxes. They do so in their rent. It just isn't spelled out. There is actually a formula for determining what percentage of rent is allocated as tax. It is used to calculateHomestead Property Tax Credits.

[jocko]

I understand ur points here but if u don't own the property why should u have to pay property tax on it. The owners of the propety pay the properety tax and certainly it is factored intot he price of the rent. Would it be any different for a multi story apartment complex. Just asking for this is thefirst I have ever readof anything like that . We certainly don't have that in Indiana. Now I could see a a rip off type tax on renters like most motels have with these "motel" taxes where the city gets maybe 12% tax on the price to occupants. It is not a property tax though and it has to bel isted separtely on ones bill.

Question: Who gets the property tax deduction then. The renter or land owner. as the renters tax I would think wold be paid like property taxes. (twice a year) and not monthly. I would still think the actual bill for the property would come to the owner for all bills etc and renters move on at will and I can't see a city messinbg around wity renters when they can go directly tothe owner for the tax money.

I guess it dpends if the glass if half full or half empty but I owned 3 peaces of rental property in my home town and I now yearly what my taxers were o those partials. so yes it was factored in with my rent price but not li9sted separtely as the rentor wasnot liable ofr the taxes, I WAS. Now a rentor cold e told that this rent price inclusdes my property taxes on the propery andmy insurance on the property etc and thatis why I have to get this price, makes sense, but the renter gets no property tax deduction althohg they are allowed I think 3K a year as a tax deduction but not any more than that..

[les strat]

My question is, why should we be taxed for our property that we paid taxes on when we bought it????? And when we sell it as well?

Just sayin.

[JimBianchi]

I don't know about Vegas, but in Texas Mr. Landlord pays property tax on his commercial rent property, and you can bet that cost is passed on to his renters. No doubt it's probably not the same amount per sq ft as the homeowner when all said and done.


Here in NV, the amount of property tax for multi-family structures is about 20% of what the same number of apartments would be if they were single family homes.

So while currently homes are cheap here, and first-time buyers are snapping up great deals, the tax base is shrinking because for every new home owner, there are three that stopped paying the taxes, mortgages and bills. The county has said there is a three year backlog for foreclosures and evictions. So if you stopped paying your bills today, you might not be actually be evicted for three years! There is no incentive to keep paying and people are taking advantage of that.

The main driver of this "stop payment" is of course falling home prices. My house is worth less today than it was when it was built in 1999. But I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. In ten years this place with be paid off and we will still be here. Real Estate is never a sure thing. You should buy a home to live in, not speculate for profit.

Let me clarify my early rant:

I hate taxes but I understand that for basic needs of a community, some taxes are needed. Taxing someone with additional taxes or new taxes is not the solution to our current budgetary problems. Shrinking government is.

Also taking away a very valuable tax incentive to homeowners is not helpful either. If you want to expand home ownership (thus expanding your tax base) you have keep incentives in place.

I am sorry if my previous late night rant did not clearly identify my sarcasm. More taxes will not solve our problem. Learning to live within our means as a nation will.

[getsome]

Presbobama was on Jay Leno last night and said that he thought over all his administration was doing a good job with the war effort with the killing of Osama and Gadhafi (didn't know he had anything to do with that one) and if those pesky Republicans would just let him spend a ton of money on his infrastructure jobs plan then he could get jobs for all those Occupy Wall Street protesters and get them back to work and get the economy moving again and he wanted to say that he fully supports what they are trying to do (big shock, vote for me please)

Earlier I was watching the late news and saw that the Atlanta Police finally arrested a bunch of the Occupy Atlanta protesters but will have to wait and see if they come back today....I hope they do so Mommy and Daddy can watch their little darlings being tear gassed and bean bag shot...:19:

One strange and kind of funny TV News shot was some guy (not sure if he was part of the protest or not) but he went walking through the park with an AK-47 strapped to his back...The Police didn't do anything as open carry is legal in Georgia so he was within his rights I suppose and nobody in the crowd said anything to him or tried to stop him but they did stay well back out of his way...:eek:...:86:

[tv_racin_fan]

TV,

You realize that renters with kids use our public schools for free?

Actually they don't sir. Since property taxes pay for the schools and the property taxes are paid by the owner out of the proceeds of the rent.

We home owners, Here in Vegas that's 630,000 homes (46% of the families. Before the crash it was 52% or so) supporting the 2.2million people. More than half the valley lives in apartments, and by an large they have the same amount of children as everyone else. Renters use the schools for free. Even though we as a state are broke, we increased our expenditures for public schools, AGAIN! With our tax base shrinking (fewer homeowners), but more people here than 10 years ago. Gee I wonder who is leeching the system? RENTERS!

See above.. unless Las Vegas only taxes property not rented to renters....

I say charge a property tax on RENTERS equal to the equivalent that we home owners pay. Go with square foot age. I pay $1400 a year on my 2100sq foot house. So your 800sqf apartment should be tax at $550 per year.

That will do it.

Not living within our means, not shrinking government, not being responsible, I say tax the rest of the people who don't pay property tax.

Also, tax the single mothers, you know the ones making less than poverty wage and supporting kids.

Yep, more taxes are the solution.

Nothing else makes sense.

The solution is to shrink govt. GOVT never had the right to take from me to give to someone else outside of the Constitution in the first place.

[cgff]

Some intresting an intelligent points of view. I would comment further but I am between 2nd my 3rd job, and am just fortunate enough that I have 2 Walmarts that I am able to work at and peddle foreign made goods.

Be back soon?

[Ubaldo99]

The OWS folks are here in Dallas as well. Not a great number of them. And they've been well behaved for the most part and careful to cooperate with City Hall, police, etc. Most of them are young, and if you're young and not protesting something, I figure there's something wrong with you. Not sure if you've been reading the U.S. economic stats, but the top 5% of wealthy have seen their returns increase by 300% over the past 30 years and the poorest 20% of citizens have seen only an 18% increase in real wages over that same period of time. That sort of thing will eventually cause problems. It will be a sad day if the USA loses its middle classes.

[TheTman]

"Get your money for nothing and your chicks for free".

Seems like some people have taken that to heart. Morons.

[O'Dell]

Right now according to IRS records the top 1% of our population earn 19% of the income and pay 39% of the total income taxes. The top 25% of the wage earners pay 85% of the taxes. More power to them - it just means I don't have to pay as much. Since, generally, these are the same people who create the jobs for the rest of us, just how much do you think they should pay? Never mind - I don't want to hear it.

[muggsy]

socialism at its best. sounds like exiles from GREECE..

seems for every one of the protestors who has a CLUE 10 are clueless. si if they have been camping ouot for over two weeks in these parks, does this mean the colleges let them out on leave to demonstarte, does it mean mom and ad are real proud that their sons and daughters have moved out ofthe basement and into the streets, or their boss said heh take a couple weeks off and go demonstrate, or can they spell JOBS.. We give um to much coverage on TV.

Remove the cameras and they will all leave within three days.

[muggsy]

Hammer meet nail, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are a few that have a clue, and the below demands are just and reasonable; http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Let me be clear that I'm not for socialism or any redistribution of wealth. If you work hard and make a nice life for yourself, you deserve it! However, the issue isn't raising taxes on the rich, it's closing loopholes that allow the rich to keep from paying their share. When General Electric earns five billion in profits, and doesn't pay any taxes, there's something very wrong with the picture. IMO, we need to reenact Glass Steagall, get corporate money out of Washington, and rewrite the tax code. That would be a good start anyway.

If you took every penny from the rich and gave it to the poor the rich would have their money back within a year. Why? Because the rich know how to acquire wealth and the poor know how to piss it away.

[muggsy]

Liberal Logic
The rich have enable us to put a roof over our heads, shoes on our feet, clothes on our backs and food in our bellies. The rich, through capitalism, have enabled us to enjoy the highest standard of living in the world. So, let's screw the evil rich.

[Bawanna]

muggsy, I'm starting become very fond of you. Not in any kind of mano mano way ya understand.

[tv_racin_fan]

I just got to lookin at them demands...

#1 seems to make sense but they should go and investigate to find out why Glass Sreagal was done away with. Instead they seem to think it was all a scam by Wall Street.

#2 also seems to make sense but they ignored the criminals in congres and the current administration who had a hand in the cookie jar. Again it seems to me they think it was all the fault of Wall Street.

#3 UUMM they seem to think the US is a democracy... aint nothing I can say there since the schools seem to teach that and their govt seems to tell them that as well. I wonder tho if they want to restrict unions and organizations such as the NRA the same as they claim they want to restrict corporate contributions. I know that the case they mentioned and the democrats who supported restricting corporate contributions didn't want to restrict unions and other organizations. Either you restrict them all the same or you don't... in my opinion you can not restrict the ones you don't like but allow the ones you do. Something about liberty and freedom and all that.

#4 is just awesome. I wonder if they have any clue who actually pays all corporate taxation?

#5 is even more awesome. Do they not understand that what is going on is exactly what congress wants to happen?

#6 oh yes lets put an end to lobbyists. We don't need that section of the Constitution any way... right? I mean why should I have the right to address my grievances with my representatives to congress? Surely we all can agree that the NRA needs to go away... or FFA... FHA.

That list was not as silly as the first proposed list of demands I saw.

[muggsy]

muggsy, I'm starting become very fond of you. Not in any kind of mano mano way ya understand.

I'll consider that a compliment, Bawanna. Yer not so bad yerself.

[Avenger]

This whole 'occupy' stuff causes me to think of something my dad is apt to say...

"You can't fix stupid".

I remind myself of this when I start to feel myself beginning to get steamed over the sense of entitlement that these yahoos have.

If YOU are not happy with YOUR life, it's up to YOU to get off YOUR butt and work on making YOUR life better. I work for the benefit of me and my family, and not for YOU and your perceived entitlements.

(Sorry for the rant.)

[JFootin]

Hey Muggsy, Bawanna and Avenger,

I'm becoming fond of all 3 of you. Not in any mano a mano way, you understand. A tip o' the hat to you! :yo:

[LaP]

Hey Muggsy, Bawanna and Avenger,

I'm becoming fond of all 3 of you. Not in any mano a mano way, you understand. A tip o' the hat to you! :yo:

You guys need to get a room.
(With a group discount!!)
:D

[Avenger]

You guys need to get a room.
(With a group discount!!)
:D

Actually, we have the expectation that someone will recognize that we want this and it will be provided for us without our actually having to work for it.

Isn't that the way this thing works? :)

[O'Dell]

Liberal Logic
The rich have enable us to put a roof over our heads, shoes on our feet, clothes on our backs and food in our bellies. The rich, through capitalism, have enabled us to enjoy the highest standard of living in the world. So, let's screw the evil rich.

Couldn't have said it better!!

[Russ]

In Utah the owner of a rental pays property tax ay 100% of the value. If a property is your primary residence you pay 55% of property value. In the case of Utah landlords take it in the shorts. Also most major cities require a business license for all rentals. These costs all trickle down to the renters in the form of rent.

[muggsy]

Hammer meet nail, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. There are a few that have a clue, and the below demands are just and reasonable; http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-please-help-editadd-so-th/

Let me be clear that I'm not for socialism or any redistribution of wealth. If you work hard and make a nice life for yourself, you deserve it! However, the issue isn't raising taxes on the rich, it's closing loopholes that allow the rich to keep from paying their share. When General Electric earns five billion in profits, and doesn't pay any taxes, there's something very wrong with the picture. IMO, we need to reenact Glass Steagall, get corporate money out of Washington, and rewrite the tax code. That would be a good start anyway.

Should we start with closing the loophole on deducting the interest on your home mortgage? How about closing the loophole on deducting for charitable giving? Maybe you shouldn't be to able to deduct for what you pay in state income tax. What about the deduction you get for each of your children? How about closing the loophole on deducting for your medical expenses. So many loopholes, So little time. As far as I know GE has done nothing illegal. If they had the IRS would have climbed into their shorts. The IRS has been in my shorts often enough. :)

[JohnR]

In 14 years of home ownership, our mortgage interest and other deductible expenses have never exceeded the standard deduction. YMMV.

[Armybrat]

Well, after watching some of that occupy stuff, it makes me go occupy the throne in the bathroom.

Whoops, I said "throne".

Does that make me a 1%er? :D

[Bawanna]

Well, after watching some of that occupy stuff, it makes me go occupy the throne in the bathroom.

Whoops, I said "throne".

Does that make me a 1%er? :D

Not enough information. You use Charmin or old Sears Roebuck catalogs?

Indoors / Outdoors.

Tap water or pump?

[tv_racin_fan]

In 14 years of home ownership, our mortgage interest and other deductible expenses have never exceeded the standard deduction. YMMV.

So you have taken advantage of the standard loophole for several years? Ok so what do you think of others taking advantage of any deduction they may?


See that is the real issue here. IF it is some corporations deductions it gets termed a LOOPHOLE. Such as the so called Corporate Jet Loophole. BUT if it is MY deduction it is just a deduction not a loophole. Such as the mortgage interest deduction or the childcare deduction... you should get the picture.

Some people want to claim that since Mr Emmelt, (sp?) GE exec is on some advisery thing to the President Obama administration, that somehow the adminstration allowed him some loophole to not pay corporate income taxes. IF this is the case then the President Bush administration must have done the same thing since GE did not pay any income tax the last year of his administration (that is what my investigation shows anyway). Which would mean that both parties are screwing us... so then which party to vote for next?

[JFootin]

So you have taken advantage of the standard loophole for several years? Ok so what do you think of others taking advantage of any deduction they may?


See that is the real issue here. IF it is some corporations deductions it gets termed a LOOPHOLE. Such as the so called Corporate Jet Loophole. BUT if it is MY deduction it is just a deduction not a loophole. Such as the mortgage interest deduction or the childcare deduction... you should get the picture.

Some people want to claim that since Mr Emmelt, (sp?) GE exec is on some advisery thing to the President Obama administration, that somehow the adminstration allowed him some loophole to not pay corporate income taxes. IF this is the case then the President Bush administration must have done the same thing since GE did not pay any income tax the last year of his administration (that is what my investigation shows anyway). Which would mean that both parties are screwing us... so then which party to vote for next?

What you need to understand is, loopholes or not, corporate taxes are taxes on us, the consumers. On top of all of the other oppressive taxes on success and productivity that have been levied on us by the professional politicians. All of it is 1000% wrong! The federal, state and local governments need to be reduced to a very small fraction of the monstrosities they have become. The professional politicians need to be replaced by noble volunteers who will serve for the benefit of the people like the founding fathers did, with term limits to make the professional politicians permanently extinct. And consumption taxes—taxes on the sale of new merchandise—should be the only kind of taxes levied (re: Fair Tax). No more I.R.S.

So, all this arguing about loopholes and who's paying their "fair share" is totally wrong and pointless. JMHO! :israel:

[QuercusMax]

You can't redistribute intelligence.

And that truly is the root of the problem.

I just hate having to argue with idiots everywhere I go these days. Seems like the total amount of intelligence in the world is a constant, while the population keeps increasing....

[O'Dell]

What you need to understand is, loopholes or not, corporate taxes are taxes on us, the consumers. On top of all of the other oppressive taxes on success and productivity that have been levied on us by the professional politicians. All of it is 1000% wrong! The federal, state and local governments need to be reduced to a very small fraction of the monstrosities they have become. The professional politicians need to be replaced by noble volunteers who will serve for the benefit of the people like the founding fathers did, with term limits to make the professional politicians permanently extinct. And consumption taxes—taxes on the sale of new merchandise—should be the only kind of taxes levied (re: Fair Tax). No more I.R.S.

So, all this arguing about loopholes and who's paying their "fair share" is totally wrong and pointless. JMHO! :israel:

Agreed! But how are we going to get the very people who will be limited, to vote for term limits. Remember a lot of these guys aren't capable of getting a decent job outside of government. Plus they would lose all that power and the perks. As hard as it will be to pass the FT, which means giving up a lot of that power, I think term limits would be a great deal harder to get on the books.

[JFootin]

More and more, it is time for a constitutional convention.

[O'Dell]

More and more, it is time for a constitutional convention.

CC's have always scared me a little. I've done some research, but have yet to determine if they can be limited to a single topic. If not some bunch of liberals might take charge and decide it's time to rewrite the Constitution, or at least the Bill of Rights.

[JFootin]

CC's have always scared me a little. I've done some research, but have yet to determine if they can be limited to a single topic. If not some bunch of liberals might take charge and decide it's time to rewrite the Constitution, or at least the Bill of Rights.

Yeah, we'd have to keep the lib-tards out! :spider:

[tv_racin_fan]

CC's have always scared me a little. I've done some research, but have yet to determine if they can be limited to a single topic. If not some bunch of liberals might take charge and decide it's time to rewrite the Constitution, or at least the Bill of Rights.

Tis not possible to limit them in any fashion.

Sorta like politicians claiming that SS is an entitlement even tho they have the power to change the disbursement at any time.

We need to not pay politicians. They for sure need no retirement plan since they aint supposed to be making a carreer out of the "job".

[muggsy]

In 14 years of home ownership, our mortgage interest and other deductible expenses have never exceeded the standard deduction. YMMV.

You must be doing something wrong, John. :) Smartest thing that I ever did was to marry a rich republican woman.

[muggsy]

What you need to understand is, loopholes or not, corporate taxes are taxes on us, the consumers. On top of all of the other oppressive taxes on success and productivity that have been levied on us by the professional politicians. All of it is 1000% wrong! The federal, state and local governments need to be reduced to a very small fraction of the monstrosities they have become. The professional politicians need to be replaced by noble volunteers who will serve for the benefit of the people like the founding fathers did, with term limits to make the professional politicians permanently extinct. And consumption taxes—taxes on the sale of new merchandise—should be the only kind of taxes levied (re: Fair Tax). No more I.R.S.

So, all this arguing about loopholes and who's paying their "fair share" is totally wrong and pointless. JMHO! :israel:

Finally someone with a modicum of intelligence. Don't let it go to your head. :)