P380 3-strikes and you're out

[JodyH]

Third frame, almost every internal part has been replaced multiple times.
Still will not go 1 magazine without a malfunction.
First it was the trigger not resetting.
Next was light primer strikes and failure to return to battery.
Now it has multiple failures to feed with rounds nose diving into the feed ramp.

I'm done with the P380.

It's time for Kahr to refund me or replace it with another model that has a better chance of working.

:mad:

[LMT42]

Sorry for your troubles, I'm sure you're ready to throw that gun in the ocean. It sounds like you've invested a lot of time and money in the gun. I don't know if you'll have any luck getting a refund or different pistol from Kahr. FWIW, you might want to read this thread for information on fixing the nosedives.

http://www.kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1612

[JodyH]

I'm not going to read any more threads or do jack-crap to this pistol.

With over $1000 invested and 3 trips back to Kahr, it will either run straight out of the Fed-Ex box or it will go straight back to them (on their dime).
I will not continue to troubleshoot and repair their screw ups.

I guarantee they will get tired of dealing with me and resolve this to my satisfaction.

[JodyH]

I'm not going to say that Kahr lied about test firing it before returning it to me, but there were zero wear spots evident on the new barrel and a perfectly clean shiny bore when I received the pistol.
After the 50 rounds I fired today there are several shiny spots.
*IF* they test fired it, they did at most one magazine then cleaned it like it was going into surgery.

I have my doubts...

[garflys]

I feel your pain, they should replace your gun with another model, how many damm frames and parts do they have to replace before they admit the p380 is a none working POS. And to all the people who tell you to keep giving it a chance, I dont think they have shot theres in a long time, because then they would have to admit how wrong they were. Good luck with your outcome. There are no fixes for this, for a long time. Some of you just dont want to say kahr has a major design flaw.

[DaveInCA]

FWIW, the last time I sent mine in I sent it in dirty with 150 rounds through it. I figured I would send it in like it was when it was failing. It came back with a new frame, and the barrel was still dirty, like when I sent it in. They didn't clean mine.

[kahrlover123]

Wow, three frames replaced already? It really sucks.
Can you tell us what's the turn around time for each "sent in trip"?

My friend sent her P380 almost a month ago and as of today, it's still in the gunsmith's queue to be looked at. They must have a few gunsmithers and tons of P380 to be looked at :D

Can we file a class action lawsuit?
Kahr should admits this issue and does a recall on certain frame numbers (like Ruger LCP).
Or maybe they wait for one senario of someone dead because when he/she pulls out the little P380 to defend and the little booger gets a stovepipe or light strike.

I'm not sure if anyone at Kahr reads this message board but this is getting pretty bad rep.

While waiting for her P380, she got a Taurus TCP a week ago and went to the range with 200 shots fired. Not even a single problem. This is what P380 should be.

[mser]

I feel your pain, they should replace your gun with another model, how many damm frames and parts do they have to replace before they admit the p380 is a none working POS. And to all the people who tell you to keep giving it a chance, I dont think they have shot theres in a long time, because then they would have to admit how wrong they were. Good luck with your outcome. There are no fixes for this, for a long time. Some of you just dont want to say kahr has a major design flaw.

Agreed, Kahr should step up and do something if they have indeed basically rebuilt this firearm from the ground up and malunctions continue.

Respectfully disagree with other parts of your statement. I shoot mine a couple of times a month. After my frame replacement and almost five hundred rounds I don't experience anywhere near the problems I've seen posted here. I just put fifty rounds through mine a couple of days ago and had one stovepipe (I'm almost certain it was my fault) and three premature slide locks (most likely a magazine problem that I'll research further). Does this model experience more problems than other models? Most definitely yes. Can these problems be corrected? In my case mostly yes. Non-working POS? Not mine. Function is still not totally flawless but not a POS by any means.

I feel for the guys that are having chronic failures with their pistols. I'll count myself as one of the priviledged few until I have reason to move myself amongst the ranks of the dark side.

[racuda]

I'm not going to read any more threads or do jack-crap to this pistol.

With over $1000 invested and 3 trips back to Kahr, it will either run straight out of the Fed-Ex box or it will go straight back to them (on their dime).
I will not continue to troubleshoot and repair their screw ups.

I guarantee they will get tired of dealing with me and resolve this to my satisfaction.

I agree. My new strategy is to not stress over it and calmly send it back as soon as it fails. I enjoy shooting, so I will shoot for practice and fun. If it works, then great. After a few more sessions it will earn my trust. If it fails even ONCE, I'll call for a return label.

The warranty is five years and I will send it back as many times as I can, six or eight times a year if they can turn it around.

Imagine if everybody sent theirs back potentially thirty times in the warranty period. FedX charges both ways plus ammo for them to test fire the guns probably amounts to $50 per episode, not to mention the cost of frames, barrels, etc. That should provide incentive to fix the guns or replace them with a different model to cut their losses.

[garflys]

I hope your not betting your life on this gun?

[JodyH]

Respectfully disagree with other parts of your statement. I shoot mine a couple of times a month. After my frame replacement and almost five hundred rounds I don't experience anywhere near the problems I've seen posted here. I just put fifty rounds through mine a couple of days ago and had one stovepipe (I'm almost certain it was my fault) and three premature slide locks (most likely a magazine problem that I'll research further). Does this model experience more problems than other models? Most definitely yes. Can these problems be corrected? In my case mostly yes. Non-working POS? Not mine. Function is still not totally flawless but not a POS by any means.

I feel for the guys that are having chronic failures with their pistols.
4 malfunctions out of 50 rounds sounds like "chronic failures" to me.
"Almost certain" and "most likely" sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize away the malfunctions.
I would consider 1 malfunctions out of 100 rounds to be completely unacceptable, 4 out of 50 would place a gun squarely in the POS category.

[jocko]

I have to agree here with Jody H. 1 malfuction out of 100 would have to depend what caused it. If I caused it that is different. If it was a bad round, that is differet. If it was gun related, I would try to see what caused it. i. e. dirty gun, etc. Gun part suddenly going bad and needs replaced. Lots of things can cause a malfunction that is not always the guns fault. If u clean ur gun often, then normaly u will eliminate not seeing a worn or bad part. If u rotate ur carry ammo out periodicaly ku can eliminate the bad ammo stuff. If ur shooting form is good, then u have eliminated another possable,m after that issue need to be looked into alittle more deeper. I would call 4 out of 50 AN ISSUE that needs looked into.. YMMV. Sprngs in guns are there to be changed, ignore them and they will let you know sooner than later.

My
G19 has malfunctioned before on me but when it is clean and lubed and I am right also the gun is flawless.

[KahrOwner]

I'm not going to say that Kahr lied about test firing it before returning it to me, but there were zero wear spots evident on the new barrel and a perfectly clean shiny bore when I received the pistol.
After the 50 rounds I fired today there are several shiny spots.
*IF* they test fired it, they did at most one magazine then cleaned it like it was going into surgery.

I have my doubts...

I totally agree with you Jody - read my report on my own Kahr P380 "repair".

My repair docket said "test fired - OK" - I think that he meant one shot max (perhaps!)

Bob

[KahrOwner]

BTW, my "repaired" P380 has many new parts including a completely new frame.

But I was still averaging about 1 failure every 20 shots! (See my range report)

That level of failure rate is still totally unacceptable in my book.

My P380 is going up for sale soon - I don't believe that anyone at Kahr actually knows how to fix all these P380's with problems and sending a pistol back and forth while they debug it (at least for me) just TOTALLY SUCKS!

I'm done with the P380 and I am REALLY DONE with Kahr.

I'd have to hear that both the SAS and the SEAL's had thrown away their SIG's and adopted Kahr's instead before I'd ever consider looking at another one.

(Which is about as likely as hell freezing over).

Bob

[jocko]

ur judging all kahrs on the basis of ur failed P380 which is a total failure. IMO ur opiion is not justified but what ever. peddle it and buy a seals gun what ever that is and u will be more than happy with it.

[Kenjs2]

After I got my P380 back the first time I took it out and had 3 FTE out of the first 25 rounds (WWB) and 2 FTE and 2 premature slide locks out of the next 50 rounds (Lawman). I called Kahr to inquire as to their meaning of "Test Fired" and was told by Ian the procedure was to fire 4 mags through as the testing. I also asked about the brand of ammo and he would not commit to any one brand saying that they used whatever they had.

Mine has been back 3 times (cleaned & polished etc., 1 new slide, 1 new frame). It may be going back again, first outing not very promising but it could have been my fault, we'll see...

Answers are to slow in coming from Kahr, if at all, and I think it's about time we take a more organized approach to putting our brains together to find a fix for these problems. Some of you engineer types might be able to help by establishing a more unified course of action for us all to get invloved with. I would guess that there are only a handful of catagories that need to be examined (FTF, FTC, FTRB, FTE etc.).

As it is I think we're expending a lot of energy and not getting much in return, what are your opinions? (assuming you want to keep a good functioning Kahr around, I do.)

[jocko]

other than the P38u0 all the other kahrs are good functioing kahrs.. the P380 I is not a good gun, maybe will never be, very frsutrating to send a gun back 3 times, I sure feel ur pain there trust me when I say I have been there done that with 3 kel teck that I owned. they all total went back 17 times before I could get them right enough to peddle them. Doesn't make it right. We have had some fixes posted on this forum that have been good for many kahrs with issues THAT ARE SOLVEABLE without sending them back, but IMO the issues with the P380 is not something that we can do ourselves as most of us have tried most everything to no avail. and when we start to see new slides, frames etc being installed then it is not something that WE can do here. Quite possably from ur report, u are at least not getting things like light strikes or FTRB, the premature side lock might work itself out with more rounds, check to see if by any chance your rounds might be hitting the inside of the slide lock lever and causng this. There is a "how to do" on the kahr tech section under propper prepping of ur new kahr. It will tell u how to check for this. a simple thing to do . Not alot of things can cause premature slide lock. Shot it left handed to see if that also stops it and then u might cosider that quite possably your thumb engaged the slide lock lever during shooting. This is so so common on small guns, not saying it is shooter error but u just need to eliminate all the possablre before getting to escited also..

Did you lube the gun up before the first trip back to the range .

I had a new Para Carry 9 that I truly loved, 1911 style super LDA trigger system deadly accurate. It went back 3 times for issues that I could not solve here. never got right either, so I traded it and took a beating. Sh-t happens.

[Kenjs2]

Thanks for the advice but at this point I've done almost all of the things you've suggested. I've got 526 rounds through it, 12 trip to the range and 14 clean & lube (3 times disassembling the slide) plus the 3 trips home. I say all this to say I'd like to back away from my individual problems and attempt to try to get a more professional and organized approach going. Kind of like the prep and lube stickies, where we can all go to one post or thread and be able to work our way through a sort of trouble shooting checklist. (As opposed to having to search through hundreds of threads and posts.) What that will look like I have no idea, I'm hopping you all will add you're input. If you think this line of thought has any merit lets give it a try. If you don't think the idea has any merit say that also. Let's face it, we're not getting the kind of help we need and I don't intend to point any fingers anywhere. (My money's spent and I'm not likely to get it back) Finger pointing solves nothing, wastes time and interferes with our thought processes.

[HadEmAll]

I'm done with the P380 and I am REALLY DONE with Kahr.

Bob

So Bob, are you going to auction off your profile name, or just abandon it?:)

[KahrOwner]

So Bob, are you going to auction off your profile name, or just abandon it?:)

I think that I plan to stick around and drop in occasionally to see what happens - even after (if) I find a buyer for my P380. Who knows maybe they will eventually find a solution for all the P380 issues and if that happens I'd sure like to know what it really is.

But I am a gun nut so even faulty and failed firearm designs are interesting to me on some level.

My hat is off to those people who keep sending their P380's back to Kahr repeatedly - they are the folks who eventually will force Kahr to find a proper solution to this problem. Personally I don't have the time or the patience for all that.

Bob

[jocko]

If u keep an ope mind kahrOwner, I think eventually you will be back, If not keep the faith and shoot um like u stole it..

I sympathize with ur problems with the P380 and this guy fully understands...

[JodyH]

My complaint has been moved up to the customer service dept. supervisor.
So far it's been 4 business days with ZERO communication from that person.
If I don't hear from him by end of business tomorrow I will begin working the phone until something starts happening.
I will go scorched earth on this.

[Kenjs2]

My complaint has been moved up to the customer service dept. supervisor.
So far it's been 4 business days with ZERO communication from that person.
If I don't hear from him by end of business tomorrow I will begin working the phone until something starts happening.
I will go scorched earth on this.

I have no idea how I can help you in this but if my experiences of dealing with my P380 will add anything in your quest for a just solution from Kahr PM me. I think the more that we can consolidate all of these issues the greater our chances are for a sucessful outcome. Hopefully a P380 that operates like it was designed to.

[Thunder71]

My concern is all the people who have a P380 and maybe shot it a few times, maybe they haven't... they have no idea that their firearm may be defective and useless should they need it.

Granted, it's their responsibility (in my opinion) to make sure the firearm operates however to some people that might be firing a couple rounds - or they assume the the fired test round in the case was enough to show it works.

I'd really hate to hear of someone thinking they were prepared by buying an upper end priced concealable weapon and have it fail at the wrong time.

I do realize that we will most likely hear mostly the complaints on this forum, that's typical of any specialized forum - but usually it comes and goes, the P380 seems to be a piece of meat stuck in your teeth and you have no floss. :(

[kahrlover123]

My concern is all the people who have a P380 and maybe shot it a few times, maybe they haven't... they have no idea that their firearm may be defective and useless should they need it.

Granted, it's their responsibility (in my opinion) to make sure the firearm operates however to some people that might be firing a couple rounds - or they assume the the fired test round in the case was enough to show it works.

I'd really hate to hear of someone thinking they were prepared by buying an upper end priced concealable weapon and have it fail at the wrong time.

I do realize that we will most likely hear mostly the complaints on this forum, that's typical of any specialized forum - but usually it comes and goes, the P380 seems to be a piece of meat stuck in your teeth and you have no floss. :(

U just wait until someone got shot because of the pistol's failure (FTF, FTE, FTRB, or whatever). Then we can all jump in a class action suit :7:

[JodyH]

6 days with no response from the customer service supervisor...

:mad:

[Cokeman]

That's because they are reading your posts here.

[KahrOwner]

If u keep an ope mind kahrOwner, I think eventually you will be back, If not keep the faith and shoot um like u stole it..

I sympathize with ur problems with the P380 and this guy fully understands...

Hi Jocko, I may not be leaving. I started looking closely at this thing the other day realizing that if anyone was going to fix it it would probably have to be me myself. Kahr repairs seem to be quite useless to me and are probably really just time wasted. A bit like taking your car to a really bad garage where they just swap parts and hope for the best.

So after cooling down on it all, I started looking to see if I could figure out what was causing all these issues myself - I may have nailed one of them already as I noticed (at least on mine) that the tips of rounds could whack the slide lock lever which I suspect could be causing the thing to lock open with ammo still remaining. I have now re-profiled mine with a little light filing.

I am currently wondering whether to buy more ammo for testing/debugging this thing further or to just to cut my losses and give up. The old saying "you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear" comes to mind here.

But I also noticed an issue with machine tool swirl marks in the breech that (on mine) were making ejecting rounds quite tight and sticky so I did a little polishing there too and rounds eject smoothly now.

Furthermore there are rough machine cutter marks along the bottom of my slide rails and some tool marks on the inside of the slide that have scratched the chamber area of the barrel. These are certainly causing friction and they could be polished smooth (I know that friction can cause stovepipes).

Hmmm.... quite poorly made really. But could it be rescued?

Bob

[JodyH]

That's because they are reading your posts here.
That's fine.
If I don't get a response they can read my posts on every firearm forum on the internet.
I'm a concealed carry instructor with around 200 students a year... each and every one of those students will hear about Kahrs customer service.
I also attend several training classes a year where I come into contact with several hundred shooters, they too will hear about my customer service experience.
I'm also a very active competition shooter who meets several hundred competitors a year....

Treat a customer right and he might tell 10 people.
Screw a customer over and he'll tell 10,000 people.
;)

[kahrlover123]

Well, u're not the only one that has issues with Kahr (P380 in particular). I believe the number is fairly high. Personally, I already know 4 people have problems with P380.

[KahrOwner]

Well, u're not the only one that has issues with Kahr (P380 in particular). I believe the number is fairly high. Personally, I already know 4 people have problems with P380.

Looking at how basic these issues really are and how some people here are even on their third replacement frame (as well as many other parts) I strongly suspect that the only truly "reliable" P380's are either total myths OR that they belong to people who rarely shoot (them).

If they shot ~20/25 rounds without an issue some folks might then put it away and assume that they have a good one. Or... some folks might wait until they are confronted by a bad guy to really use it.

IMO, Kahr must have a lot of these customers.

I do not believe that there are ANY reliable P380's that are made just like mine with all its poorly machined parts.

Bob

[nmkahrshooter]

Do not blame you! I felt the same way about a CM9 I purchased. Finally got sick and tired and traded it in for another brand. Now I am totally happy. Will have to think twice about another Kahr urchase.

[KahrOwner]

Do not blame you! I felt the same way about a CM9 I purchased. Finally got sick and tired and traded it in for another brand. Now I am totally happy. Will have to think twice about another Kahr urchase.

I've been learning more about how these things work than I ever wanted to know thanks to my P380 purchase.

All that I ever needed to do to my SIG's, Glock's and S&W's was clean them after some fun at the range.

I guess that I got a bit naive and assumed that all guns were made like that (and the P380 did look good to me initially). I was also sucked in by some very misleading YouTube videos. Learned my lesson!

The more that I learn about these things the more that I cringe and wonder how Kahr gets away with it - there are just so many flaws in the P380 that it is a joke.

Bob

[rickdm]

"If they shot ~20/25 rounds without an issue some folks might then put it away and assume that they have a good one. Or... some folks might wait until they are confronted by a bad guy to really use it.

IMO, Kahr must have a lot of these customers. "

I had a P380 which I sent back to Kahr because of light strikes. I got it back with a new frame. After 150 rounds with one stovepipe I have declared it ready to go. I could just get putting round after round into it until I start having a problem, but after 20 full magazines with one problem I don't think I need to do that.

rickdm

[William_the_kid]

Good to hear that, Rickdm. I hope my P380 follows in the footsteps of yours.

[TheTman]

My concern is all the people who have a P380 and maybe shot it a few times, maybe they haven't... they have no idea that their firearm may be defective and useless should they need it.

Granted, it's their responsibility (in my opinion) to make sure the firearm operates however to some people that might be firing a couple rounds - or they assume the the fired test round in the case was enough to show it works.

I'd really hate to hear of someone thinking they were prepared by buying an upper end priced concealable weapon and have it fail at the wrong time.

I think that anyone that does that with their semi-automatic pistol is a damn fool for not running at least a couple hundred rounds, preferably 400-500 down it to make sure it's reliable if they plan on it possibly saving their life. I know some folks who do this, my brother and some of his friends are very bad about that. I don't care if it says GLOCK, H&K, BERETTA, RUGER S&W, whatever on the side, parts have to mate up and they aren't going to do that sitting in your nightstand or holster. If I don't have a string of at least close to 200 rounds without a malfunction, I don't carry it, put it on my night stand or do anything with it until it I can call it reliable. I lose track of round count too easy, so rely on empty ammo boxes to keep count for me. One stovepipe, FTF, FTE or failure of any kind and the counter starts back to zero. Of course, round 201 could be the one that fails me, but thats why we practice our skills on clearing jams. I am a bit bad about my self defense rounds, If I get 50 to run well after running up the tab with FMJ, I call it good since I can't really afford to spend much money on good SD ammo. It's been my experience that if your gun doesn't like a certain SD ammo it shows it right off the bat.
Even on a revolver i want at least 100 trouble free rounds out of it. I don't test them quite as much as they've always seemed to be more dependable than semi's, as long as they are from a reputable maker and not some cheesy low rent manufacturer.

[JFootin]

About the only thing to worry about with a revolver is if you have had lighter springs installed during a trigger job, you want to make sure you don't get any light strikes and no bang.