Kahr vs 1911 for CCW

[nksmfamjp]

I have to throw this out there. Let's discuss Kahr vs. 1911 for CCW. I like my 1911 co pace for the larger caliber, larger grip and better trigger, but still, I think when I get a P40, it will be with me more often. A P40 will have a good enough trigger and caliber, while having a size and weight which begs to be with me!

What do you think? On the other hand, I may just be ccw lazy!

[jocko]

certainly will be a big weight difference. Trust me there is nothing wrong in being lazy!!!

[JFootin]

You like the 45 caliber. For CCW, look at the PM45. Not a pocket gun, but it sure can disappear in a good IWB holster. Not punishing to shoot; surprizingly manageable recoil. Ask Bawanna. He'll tell you that is his #1 always with him carry gun, though his CBOB is often there, too.

[jocko]

You like the 45 caliber. For CCW, look at the PM45. Not a pocket gun, but it sure can disappear in a good IWB holster. Not punishing to shoot; surprizingly manageable recoil. Ask Bawanna. He'll tell you that is his #1 always with him carry gun, though his CBOB is often there, too.

put him in a pig lot and he will tell u he hates pork, put him in as cow lot and he will tellu he hates beef.. He is a retired politician u know, and some things never die with them. PUt him in a 45 crowd and he hates 9's and vice versa. He ia just one verstaile guy..

[JimC]

IMO, your talking apples and oranges here.

There's no way anyone could compare any model Kahr .45 ACP to my Ed Brown Kobra Carry sized 1911. There are two entirely different pistols in all aspects.
I wouldn't even compare my re-issue series '70 Colt GM to a Kahr in .45 ACP. It is a true, serious fighting pistol and my PM9 is a pistol of convenience due to size and weight.

[wayneo1]

Far as I am concerned anything that can shoot a bullet my way is a serious fighting pistol. I mean whats not serious about a 9mm or 22 cal ripping through ones flesh. The only difference I see is one you would should shout ouch, ouch, ouch, the other you would shout OUCH

[jocko]

fighting pistiol. combat pistol. swat designed, special ops, deep cover, all ADD HYPES, imo. Getrs a readers/buyers attention real fast. Quite possably what wayneo1 said is about right. a fighting gun to a poor person might indeed be an H&R 9 shot 22 revolver, but so others maybe a Glock 17. Both last time I read will kill u deader than a possum on the highway..

[JimC]

fighting pistiol. combat pistol. swat designed, special ops, deep cover, all ADD HYPES, imo. Getrs a readers/buyers attention real fast. Quite possably what wayneo1 said is about right. a fighting gun to a poor person might indeed be an H&R 9 shot 22 revolver, but so others maybe a Glock 17. Both last time I read will kill u deader than a possum on the highway..


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would have expected more from you than that response.
The initial question was...Kahr vs 1911 for CCW
If I am knowingly headed into harms way and I have been there during 25 yrs. as an LEO and I have my choice, it won't be my PM9 that I take along.

[mr surveyor]

Whether to carry a single action, hammer fired 1911 or a double action, striker fired Kahr pistol is more a matter of choosing between two totally different platforms.... and sticking with either one or the other. When I was younger I had no concerns about using a single action revolver for SD/HD, but as I got older the SA/DA platform became more desireable. The same holds true for pistols for me. I carried cocked and locked single action semi's for several years, particularly a Star BM 9mm (similar to 1911, but no grip safety) and a Kimber compact. Both carried comofortably as both are single stack designs and the slides/frames are flat and narrow as compared to the vast majority of the current offering of so called "fighting pistols". But with the aging thing creeping on, I decided to simplify my life a bit more and moved to a Sig P239 DA/SA for carry. No external safety to deal with, and a great trigger once you get familiar with the two different trigger weights. The Sig is also just a bit thicker than the 1911 and made IWB carry "different". Having decided I wanted to move all the way to DA for carry, I picked up the CW9 a couple of years ago. The DA KelTec P380 and PF9 that I had carried for 5-6 years in the rotation with the Sig suddenly both "pulled an Elvis and left the building". The CW9 fit my hand as well as the 1911 does, fit my waist band as good as any handgun I've owned, and fit my KISS principle for a super smooth DA trigger. I can't cut bullet holes in the X-ring with the CW9 but I do feel competent with SD shot placement. The simple part is the DA striker fired procedures - Point, Click....BANG..... Reholster.

ooppss... I'm rambling again

surv

[Bawanna]

We're lucky we live in a day and time that there are sooooo many firearms to choose from. Bad for me since I want them all and the list just keeps growing and growing.

It's all about what a person wants to carry, what works for them, what they have confidence in both the caliber and their ability to apply it.

The 1911 and any Kahr as stated before are to use Jocko's wise words are like beef and pork, or perhaps even beef and chicken. (all of which I love incidently) Not in the same ball park.
Both can get the job done very well in the right hands.
I personally like them both so I carry both, why play favorites you know.

The 1911 and my PM45 make a perfect pair. One magazine fits both guns. The kahr lives on my ankles so its severly disadvantaged (alot like me) slower to draw, a tad slower to shoot but if the belt gun isn't there or heaven forbid decides not to run, it will perform very well, far better than rocks or panicked running away or rolling in my case.

JimC if that reissued series 70 needs a home, put me on the list.

[jocko]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would have expected more from you than that response.
The initial question was...Kahr vs 1911 for CCW
If I am knowingly headed into harms way and I have been there during 25 yrs. as an LEO and I have my choice, it won't be my PM9 that I take along.

most leo's don't have a choice of what they carry and I guess my point was for many PRICE dictates alot of what we carry to. No doubt if I was headed into harms way and I KNEW IT, it would be my G19 srtrictly for the additional firepower, not becasue it works any better than my PM9. Not sure I would put the job of a LEO in the same category as John Q citizen. Most of us don't have the freedom of carrying a G19 or G17 in open carry as u guys do.

Course If I could walk the street with a 12 gauge Benelli, that would trump my semi's also. unfortunatly I can't.. and u have been here long enough to know that we tend to veer off the original thread alot...

[Armybrat]

I fail to see the difference in being shot with a .45 bullet from a Kahr P45 or a Nameyourbrand 1911.

The hole will be the same size, right?

And in no way am I prejudiced against 1911s - love my Springer GI:

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w349/ScoPro/1911pistols003.jpg

[apheod]

IMO, your talking apples and oranges here.

There's no way anyone could compare any model Kahr .45 ACP to my Ed Brown Kobra Carry sized 1911. There are two entirely different pistols in all aspects.
I wouldn't even compare my re-issue series '70 Colt GM to a Kahr in .45 ACP. It is a true, serious fighting pistol and my PM9 is a pistol of convenience due to size and weight.

if i train harder, and draw faster with my k9 or pm9 (i probably do, i'm an idpa sharpshooter a couple seconds from qualifying expert) than you, your 4,000 dollar ultra custom 1911 is going to look awfully pretty laying on the ground next to your corpse.

training with your carry weapon> super ultra tactical extra double secret go to war pistol. unless we're standing more than 40 yards away, even if we're equally proficient, and you get that safety off during your draw before getting on target, i would feel at no disadvantage. over 40 yards or so, the single action may give you a SLIGHT edge in accuracy. self defense distances, no difference IMHO.

[jocko]

no doubt u carry what ur confident with, be it a 45 or 9mm, both will do the job as we well know.I just have never been a 45 fan, just grew up with a 9mm and wnat to stay there. 45 makes a big hole. 50 makes a bigger, whats the point. I cannot put a 1911 of any make in my front pocket with the ease and light weight and size of my PM9, so a Kimber 45 sitting at home does me now good when I am on the road. If Iwas to carry a 45, it would not be a single stack for its gonna be a wasite band carry anyways and more than a bigger hole I want more than 7 rounds + or - .

ain't worth aruing over IMO and I intended for my comments not to invoke it either. I sold guns for aliving for 40 years and I know many of my customers had a price point that they would not go over and, we sold a hell of alot of Jennigns 380 and Charter arms revolvers back then while the pricey 1911's and 9's set on the shelf to....

[Bawanna]

I think several important points have been touched in this thread. A big one is that most of us are civilian with different criteria and different needs. The high capacity role at least to me is not nearly as important as an LEO. They need an ammo truck following them around.

A 45 from a Kahr and a 45 from a $4000 dollar 1911 (I'll never have one but I want one) will indeed leave the same hole. Launching the hole punch is two different animals. Neither is BAD, both are very good, but both are very different. apheod almost without question would win over most of us regardless of what gun we give him because he no doubt shoots alot, shoots out of the traditional booth shooting at more than just square piece of paper.

Give Rob Leatham a 45 Colt Schofield and he'd probably mop the floor with any of us regardless of what we shoot.

In my battle plan I'd prefer not to quick draw, I plan to anticipate a problem and cheat and already have the gun in my hand. Probably won't happen that way, we all know life comes at ya fast and you gotta be ready for it.

My system works for me, 2 guns, couple spare mags, have the cool look factor on both, good carry system options in place. I'm ready, bring it.

And did I say if that reissue series 70 needs a home I'm available?

[jocko]

u have a odd way of begging Bawanna, make the guy an offer. We don't want u to suffer. Your points though are good and right. Leo's don't walk the same walk as we civilians do. If I walked into my coffee shot with a G17 strapped on my waist and 4 spare 17 round mags, I would not get my ass to the seat and I would be ask to leave the building where as a unformed officer can do just that and 4 17 round mags sure trumps 6 kahrs single stack mags, any day...or for that matter 6 single stack any other brand mags..

[Bawanna]

My extremely dull point is, 4 17 round mags for the officer is right for his mission. He's in it for the long haul to protect and eliminate the problem, running into the trouble not away.

For you the PM9 in you pocket with no spare mag is all you need. For most sheep who carry nothing, you have a big step up on them and they will count on you to protect them and run AWAY. I'd still add a spare mag were I you but your system works for you and you haven't had to shoot it yet so chances are good there won't be an issue.

Course it could change with this afternoons milk shake run too.

[JimC]

JimC if that reissued series 70 needs a home, put me on the list.

Bawanna;

That re-issue GM is quite happy living here for now.
I don't know that you would care for a slightly mosified version anyway. ;)
Nothing I did prevents me from returning it back to a stock Colt if I so desire.

I added a Wilson drop in grip safety, Wilson ultralight commander style hammer, Wilson extended thumb safety and a Colt steel firing pin to replace the alloy pin that came with the pistol.

Colt did it right when they built these 1911's. Mine will feed any bullet config. or weight from 185 gr. FMJWC to any 230 gr. HP bullet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_7626_5x3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_7623_5x3.jpg

Here it is with a set of Esmeralda custom grips.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_1863_975x731.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/KobraCarry/Miscellaneous/IMG_1870_975x731.jpg

[jocko]

esmerlda ade a ultra thin pain of grips for my Parry carry9. she is really good.looks better on the col than on my ara though,as I no longer own my Para.

[getsome]

I think of it like this,
Every day carry: PM40 pocket holster...

Every day carry in bad parts of town: PM40 pocket holster and two extra mags...

Carry when threat is a good posibility: PM40 pocket holster and two extra mags, S&W M&P .40 in shoulder holster with two extra mags...

Carry to a gang fight: All above along with all the heavily armed friends I can come up with...

SHTF: Mossberg 500 12 gauge pump with all the 00 shells I can carry...30-30 Marlin and .308 Remington in the trucks gun rack along with all my other pistols, all the ammo cell phone, food, water, tent, camping equipment fishing rod, lures and first aid gear I can get loaded in my 4x4 pickup and get the fork outta Dodge ASAP!!!...
I feel how much to carry depends on the situation...:80:

[wyntrout]

I still want a good battle pistol... high-capacity .45... something like the FHN .45 with 14-round mags. I don't like that big, bulbous-based 15-rounder magazine.

All I have are single-stack-mag pistols. I did get a McCormick 10-round and tried it in my PM45 after trimming and smoothing the top to fit, and bending the follower top down just a skosh. First try, all 10 rounds fired fine but the slide didn't lock back... never did. Each magful got worse, though, and on about the fourth mag-ful, every round was an FTF... jams or empty chamber. I'm thinking the follower didn't need bending down. :)
I guess the S&W 645 with 8+1 and four or five more magazines will have to do for now. I have the nylon web belt and pouches and magholders for all of that. That would give me the most portable firepower. The danged NS are toast, though, and I haven't seen any replacements for that... pinned blade front and adjustable for windage rear blade.

That and my Charles Daly Tactical Semi-auto with Remington Express 00 buck... 5+0 loaded and a 30-round belt ought to do, along with many other at-hand choices for backup.

Wynn:)


Wynn

[Armybrat]

How about the Springfield GI Hi-Cap 13+1?

http://www.whichgun.com/img/firearms/pistols/springfield_armory/gi.45_hi-cap/1.jpg

[Bawanna]

JimC, that colt makes my britches stick out in front.

That's a beauty. Long as it's happy living with you, fine and dandy. If that changes I'm always available.

Take good care of it, it's truely a gem and I don't think you did anything wrong to improve it.

[jocko]

would that be the same as a "booner"??

[JimC]

JimC, that colt makes my britches stick out in front.

That's a beauty. Long as it's happy living with you, fine and dandy. If that changes I'm always available.

Take good care of it, it's truely a gem and I don't think you did anything wrong to improve it.

Bawanna;

I think that's an image I really don't need to see. :o

I'll surely keep you in mind on the Colt but if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath. ;)

I bought that GM NIB in '09. I've put 3,000 + rounds thru it w/o any problems at all.
It runs 100% with Colt, Wilson (7&8 rd.), Mec-Gar (7&8 rd.) and MetalForm mags.

[JimC]

would that be the same as a "booner"??

A Colt "woody" would be more like it.

[Bill K]

Clear, draw, point & shoot. No thumb safety for me. Respect the decision of others who would not carry a gun without it having a manual safety.

[TheTman]

I carry a CW40 or .45 most every day that I leave the house. I like the Kahr trigger much better than the light SA trigger on the 1911. If I were 20 years younger I might prefer an officers size 1911. But getting older and shakier, I like the Kahr's trigger better for a self defense weapon. Both are light enough they just disappear in their holsters, and only bother me a little when I sit down or drive, but it's not too much to drive with them. I hardly ever take them out of the holster for driving, even when I'm driving fairly long distance of 2 or 3 hours, longer than that I would put it in the center console. I carry about 5:00 with the handles canted up pretty high so they lie against about where my kidney would be. I find that way they don't print bad unless I bend over at the waist, so I bend my knees instead and try to keep my body straight. They are much lighter than any 1911 I've held, officers or full sized, and the .40 has plenty of oomph to stop an attack. I do prefer to carry my CW45 though, just because I like the .45 caliber a little better than the .40.

[jeepster09]

These are my CARRY choices that I prefer.....
A 360PD 357 or my Para PDA 45, both very lite weight under 24 ounces so not to burden you with heavy weight but STRONG firepower. P.S. Both are Magnaported.:eek:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_1251.jpg

[O'Dell]

no doubt u carry what ur confident with, be it a 45 or 9mm, both will do the job as we well know.I just have never been a 45 fan, just grew up with a 9mm and wnat to stay there. 45 makes a big hole. 50 makes a bigger, whats the point. I cannot put a 1911 of any make in my front pocket with the ease and light weight and size of my PM9, so a Kimber 45 sitting at home does me now good when I am on the road. If Iwas to carry a 45, it would not be a single stack for its gonna be a wasite band carry anyways and more than a bigger hole I want more than 7 rounds + or - .



A 9mm may not expand but a 45 will never shrink! :D

[O'Dell]

I have to throw this out there. Let's discuss Kahr vs. 1911 for CCW. I like my 1911 co pace for the larger caliber, larger grip and better trigger, but still, I think when I get a P40, it will be with me more often. A P40 will have a good enough trigger and caliber, while having a size and weight which begs to be with me!

What do you think? On the other hand, I may just be ccw lazy!

My PM9 and LCP are only for hot weather when I can't cover a holster. That leaves me two 40's and six 45's to belt carry. [two 45's and one 40 are full sized and too big.] The 45's are three compact 1911's, two compact 3rd gen S&W's, and a HK45C. The 40's are a M&P compact and a CW40. Over half the time the pistol in my holster is the CW40 because of it's light weight. It's almost 1/2 pound or more lighter than the other carry guns and that makes a big difference to me.

[jocko]

probalby one of the two main reasons kahrs are a much preferred carry gun. SIZE AND WIEGHT. We seem to read this alot on this forujm and maybe it is the poster trying ti fit in here with his comments about kahrs etc, but it does seem more and more of the bigger framed guns are now taking a back seat to the kahrs 9, 40 and now even 45's. Course some of my best action was in the back seat of a car, so I guess it is OK for the big framed guns to not feel to bad.

[HadEmAll]

I like the Kahr pull and shoot trigger. I also like the 1911 pull, wipe safety off as you pull, and shoot trigger. I consider them almost interchangeable. Sure, the added step with the 1911 IS something that could go wrong, but that's never kept me from carrying my Kimber Classic on occasion. I do have the Kahrs with me more often.

Something that had not occurred to me until yesterday was that the grip safety on a 1911 is another thing that could and has gone wrong with using one in self defense. Just saying. May never for you or me, but read on......

I read a post on another forum that had a link to a story on another forum by a guy who had been the victim of a holdup while carrying his 1911. I'll post the link if I can find it again. He was giving the story in great detail, from being approached, to the actual gunfight, to the aftermath. He also posted pictures of his wounds after the incident. Thankfully the assailant was using cheap ball ammo in his pistol.

During the gunfight, which happened at very close range, his gunhand was struck by a bullet. At one point, he had a clear shot at the AH, but the pistol would not discharge due to his inability to properly depress the grip safety due to his wound. He thought it was a malfunction, and wasted time clearing what he thought was a jam, while trying to avoid being shot again.

Not going to keep me from carrying my Kimber, and eagerly seeking out a Les Baer, but the 1911 is NOT immune from it's own set of problems. Many LEOs and other handgunners will happily go through life never owning or shooting one. As far as .45 versus .40 versus 9mm, blah, blah, blah.

[jocko]

but u know it seems to me anyhow that many 1911's owners and the 1911 fourms seem to realize that alot of 1911's have to go back once or twice to get right. Seesms the high dollar 1911's have their quirks in them as well...

for samen sure one has his choice of problaby 20+ 1911 makers. He outta find one that works right. No doubt if the gun was not a beautiful gun in the first place the romance would not be there..

[JimC]

but u know it seems to me anyhow that many 1911's owners and the 1911 fourms seem to realize that alot of 1911's have to go back once or twice to get right. Seesms the high dollar 1911's have their quirks in them as well...

for samen sure one has his choice of problaby 20+ 1911 makers. He outta find one that works right. No doubt if the gun was not a beautiful gun in the first place the romance would not be there..

Well jocko, I'll have to disagree once again with you about high end 1911's or at least the Ed Brown line.
My Kobra Carry has 4,500 + rounds down the pipe and had NEVER had an issue. My pistol will not run w/most 200 gr. LSWC bullets but, it's not intended to function with target loads.

Talk a look over at the Ed Brown section of the 1911 Forum and you will find an over whelming number of very happy EB owners. Yea, there are those who have had issues but nowhere near the number that CM9 owners here are reporting. ;)

The Colt series 70 re-issue that I posted photos of earlier has 3,000 + rounds down the pipe and eats any bullet config. that I care to feed it.

[jeepster09]

but u know it seems to me anyhow that many 1911's owners and the 1911 fourms seem to realize that alot of 1911's have to go back once or twice to get right. Seesms the high dollar 1911's have their quirks in them as well...

for samen sure one has his choice of problaby 20+ 1911 makers. He outta find one that works right. No doubt if the gun was not a beautiful gun in the first place the romance would not be there..


My carry guns GOT TO BE *PURTY :2eek:, because I oogle 'em :hippie: more than I shoot bad guys....:yo: [and *lite weight]

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/IMG_0937-1.jpg

[O'Dell]

but u know it seems to me anyhow that many 1911's owners and the 1911 fourms seem to realize that alot of 1911's have to go back once or twice to get right. Seesms the high dollar 1911's have their quirks in them as well...



My STI had to go back for a failure to go completely into battery. Also my Kimber had the same problem with the standard Kimber mags. Both are fixed now, the Kimber with new mags. I will add that the SIG C3 and Springfield FS Lightweight Loaded have been perfect.

[Fatee]

Obviously a matter of personal preference.

Having owned both I can speak of what works for me.

This is NOT a 45acp or 9mm debate obviously. With that being said I do believe that today's PD ammunition makes the 9mm as effective as 45 acp. If not extremely close! The HST and Ranger T's are in my mind the best on the market today. Sorry Gold Dots!

I found that the 1911 full size was just large and difficult to conceal. I'm not a 20 something year old anymore. :eek:

I moved from a Springfield Professional 5" to an alloy framed 4" Kimber. Weight was improved, but the full size grip still printed fairly easily.

Transitioned to Glock 19 and the 9mm. Yes I know.. But before you start the torch let me just say that the Glock was half the money of the 1911's, just as dependable if not more, easier to take down by far and easier to clean etc.. Fast easy field stripping was a breeze. Accuracy for me was not a factor. Both platforms are more then accurate for personal self protection.

The G19 didn't solve my problem for size. It may have had a smaller grip length then the 1911 however the firearms overall thickness was a problem. So, being from the 1911 45 acp world I went out and purchased a Glock 36 in 45ACP.

The G36 was thinner then the G19 and the grip was shorter. Loved the G36! Was extremely accurate and recoil was really soft. However the gun was a tad over what I thought I could conceal comfortably all day and it still lent itself to minor printing. It was still a larger gun.

Here comes Kahr K9. I had wanted one for a long time but couldn't justify the $800.00 for a black with night sights. After all this "experience" I finally took the plunge this week and bought it. The K9 solved my issues of size and thickness. Stoked with 147 gr. HST's its right up there with a 45 acp in terms of stopping power IMHO.

The K9 platform is perfection. It's compact, thin, naturally pointing and has a very comfortable grip for larger hands as mine. The 3.5" barrel provides excellent performance for PD ammo. The weight of the stainless is balanced very well. Accuracy from other K9's I have shot have been excellent and reliability has been flawless. I break mine in next week so I'm hoping that the previous standard is repeated.


K9 for me! :D

[Popeye]

I'm sure by just looking at the ergos the PM45 would seem be the better CC pistol. However for me it's hard if not impossible to say anything against the 1911. It has fought all the way across Europe and helped clear more than a couple Japanese held islands. Seen action in Korea,Vietnam, etc. and is still used to this day by some units. I do not see how you can compare these two guns to one another. So I'll just say for CCW I'd take the PM45. If the SHTF though and it's going to get real ugly and I'm not concerned about hiding anything I'm going with the 1911. I'm sure as long as there's gun powder there will be 1911's.

[HadEmAll]

This post has inspired me to put the PM9 that I've been wearing all day in the safe and strap on the Kimber Classic (mostly Wilson parts now) for this evening's walk with my wife and 3 year old grandson. Three magazines full of Golden Saber 185 grain JHP and a can of Fox Labs five point three stream ought to get us through the rough parts.:)

Haven't decided yet whether to carry the LCP or LCR in the left-front pants pocket.

[jeepster09]

This post has inspired me to put the PM9 that I've been wearing all day in the safe and strap on the Kimber Classic (mostly Wilson parts now) for this evening's walk with my wife and 3 year old grandson. Three magazines full of Golden Saber 185 grain JHP and a can of Fox Labs five point three stream ought to get us through the rough parts.:)

Haven't decided yet whether to carry the LCP or LCR in the left-front pants pocket.


I would feel walking would be to risky......If you want to use my vehicle let me know....it's ready for action :eek:


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/Chevy-Suburban-Browning-M2-Machine-Gun.jpg

[getsome]

Ohhhhh Shiny...:p

[Bawanna]

Walking?

[Rainman48314]

I have to throw this out there. Let's discuss Kahr vs. 1911 for CCW. I like my 1911 co pace for the larger caliber, larger grip and better trigger, but still, I think when I get a P40, it will be with me more often. A P40 will have a good enough trigger and caliber, while having a size and weight which begs to be with me!

What do you think? On the other hand, I may just be ccw lazy!
I make this decision a few times per week. Usually the Sig 1911 RCS 4.25 inch wins out. Today I wore it half the day and switched to the PM9 for my evening walk at 6:30. Primarily, a gun is a tool and, other than a GSG .22 and a Kimber 17 Mach2 , I buy with the idea of carrying.

I much prefer the SA triggers on 1911s yet the PM9 appeals because its easier to dress around. Weight isn't a big factor to me, just barrel length and thickness.

If you pick a gun with the notion there could be trouble, better to bring a few friends, or a carbine or stay away.

[tv_racin_fan]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I would have expected more from you than that response.
The initial question was...Kahr vs 1911 for CCW
If I am knowingly headed into harms way and I have been there during 25 yrs. as an LEO and I have my choice, it won't be my PM9 that I take along.

If you knowingly go into harms way with a 1911 I'd call you flat out crazy.

I'll carry my 870 or possibly my Garand into harms way but I wont go with just a 1911.

I love my Kahr K9 for CCW or my Ruger SP101.

[HadEmAll]

I would feel walking would be to risky......If you want to use my vehicle let me know....it's ready for action :eek:


http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/Chevy-Suburban-Browning-M2-Machine-Gun.jpg

Nah, we don't have the flash mob problem here in Texas. I think I'll be okay.

[jeepster09]

Alright then.....how about just the baby gun.....

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/super_shorty_870-1.jpg

[MikeyKahr]

Do you have one of those super shortys jeepster?

Sent using Tapatalk

[Bawanna]

Alright then.....how about just the baby gun.....

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv276/jeepster09/super_shorty_870-1.jpg

Is that sweet thing legal in MN? I like that very much.

[Dirt doc]

My first experiences with a handgun was with the 1911. I was a gunners mate on a west coast destroyer in the early 70's where I carried a 1911 on watch, maintained them and qualified Expert with one. Needless to say I became very familiar with and fond of the platform. Today I have several 1911's including a Kimber ultra crimson carry that I bought with the intention of it being my primary carry weapon. Then I picked up a PM9 to carry when shorts and a t shirt were called for. I love my 1911's but I find myself carrying the Kahr more than the Kimber. The Kahr's simplicity, weight and conceal-ability make it more attractive. Plus out to 15 yds. I shoot them both equally well. I've considered a PM45 but have a hard time justifying a $800-900 gun when the Kimber is the same caliber and relative size. My Kimber will get more attention this winter but the Kahr is sure nice to carry. I have to admit though that having to choose between a Kimber 1911 or the Kahr PM9 is a nice problem to have.

Dirt doc

[cw45fan]

... a good enough trigger and caliber, while having a size and weight which begs to be with me!


Yeah... That's it.

If I'm not a LEO and don't have a high-risk (for violence) occupation and don't have sworn enemies and live in a reasonably typical neighborhood... The likelihood that I'll ever need to actually fire my gun in SD is very very small... So I carry something light yet adequate... (for me mostly a CW9)... and ENJOY that lightness... To each, his own...

[FTG2Voge]

I have two basic options when it comes to CCW. I prefer to carry a 1911 whenever possible. The ergonomics and the trigger on a good 1911 simply cannot be beat in my opinion. However, in hot weather or other circumstances where it is difficult to carry one, my other choice is a CW9. I don't feel at all disadvantaged with it. I probably carry it 25% of the time.

[cgff]

I carried a 1911 seris 70 commander for a while and a kimber ultra carry but after moving to NC I found I carried my S&W 640 most of the time well a few weeks ago found a different looking Kahr P-40 (covert) balanced muzzle heavy liked it, short grip thought of it as a mini CCO (been lusting after one for years) P-40 covert mags hold 5+1 of .40 Ill be carrying my covert as soon as I get some more range time and a nice OWB.
Love my 1911s but I do not carry them like I did

[JimC]

If you knowingly go into harms way with a 1911 I'd call you flat out crazy.

I'll carry my 870 or possibly my Garand into harms way but I wont go with just a 1911.

I love my Kahr K9 for CCW or my Ruger SP101.

There are times being an LEO that you don't have the luxury of planning ahead all the time and you have to go with what you have at the moment or the situation could be worse.

Hind sight is always 20/20, especially if you haven't been there. ;)

[jocko]

U guys normally have things we citizens don' thave on us. like radios for back up, extrra firepower in the vehicle. You r kind of traine dhelp very close by and of course the ability to carry a 17 round semi with possaably 4 extrra mags , handcuffs, mace all strapped on ur belt and the average citizen not evening giving u a double look where as I would stop traffic dressed that way, and I could be even legal . Nothing against a 1911, but if i was thinking about being in harms way I would want a high capacity double stack 9, 40, 45, but I want alot of rounds availalbe. Glock seems to rule the enforcement field, seems to be a reason for that to maybe.. no doubt hind sight is 20-=20, . It works every time..

[JimC]

Once again, the original question was...Kahr vs 1911 for CCW and 1911 being the operative indicator here as to weapon choice.

If you must keep bringing in the Glock line of pistols, I would gladly grab my G35 w/14+1 rounds of a good 180 gr. JHP or my G21 w/13+1 rounds of a 230 gr. JHP or even 230 gr. ball instead of my PM9 w/6+1 rounds of anything!

BTW jocko, I'm a retired LEO, not current so when you say you guys have at your disposal etc., etc., it no longer pertains to me. Been retired for nearly 15 years now and I don't carry a radio or the other "stuff" any longer. :D

Question, has the OP been around since posting?

[HadEmAll]

I'll carry my 870 or possibly my Garand into harms way but I wont go with just a 1911.



Would, say, clearing a house after a burglary be considered going into harm's way?

Come to think of it, just yesterday I just saw a TV program with a guy clearing a house with a Garand. Of course It was the Military Channel, he was wearing a 1940's style GI uniform, the house was in a little village in Germany, he had thrown a fragmentation grenade in through a window first, and he had three buddies standing outside, also with Garands. :)

Let's see, a 10 pound, 3.625 foot, 8-round Garand versus a 2.5 pound, 8.25" 8-round 1911 going around a corner in a sheetrock walled house. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm................


Now if the harm's way of the day was a remote mountainous area, or the latest big-city riot, the desireability of the two weapons might flip.

Not sure how we got from CCW to Garands, but these XXX versus YYY posts always seem to morph into something other than the original poster brought up.

Back to Kahr versus 1911 for CCW, no doubt this would have a different set of responses on the 1911 forum. Some people will never own a 1911 due to lack of interest, and some will never own a Kahr, for the same reason.

Me, as I've already stated CONCEALED CARRY both a full sized 1911, and one of several Kahrs. Here in Texas, we are issued a concealed HANDGUN license (CHL), not a concealed WEAPON license, so for just walking around the big city, shotguns, rifles, and grenades are out.

Anybody know for a fact where is NOT in harm's way?

[jlottmc]

Actually, long guns here are not legally out, but if one should "appear to be using or carrying in a threatening manner" then well game on. As far as bladed weapons, make sure that 5 1/2 inches and no double edge or switch blade, and you're good to go. Impact weapons and larger chemical dispersion devices are out though.

[OldLincoln]

I am too fond of my 45 1911 (Dad's Gun) to carry it, but I can. I have a good holster and my heavy duty suspenders and even spare mags. I wasn't going to carry it, then decided Dad would want me to, so I did for a bit, but it's the thought of loosing it if I used it that made me have it as a house gun.

I carried a Colt Mustang 380 (1911) in the pocket as my first carry gun. It fit very well but I could not get comfortable with the hammer back even though the safety was on. I guess I'm just sold on striker fired guns in general.

I want to carry 45 so the P45 is on my someday list. I will carry that one as my daily carry if it all fits right. Then may even trade my PM9 for another so I have all 45's (and I really like my PM9).

[jocko]

up until u stated ur a 15 year retired LEO, one would certainly had taken ur posts as one speaking of being a LEO now.

[Bawanna]

Maybe retired but once a LEO, always a LEO. I don't think you can turn it off.

[JimC]

up until u stated ur a 15 year retired LEO, one would certainly had taken ur posts as one speaking of being a LEO now.

jocko;

You just "assumed" that I was still active LE.
Just because one retires doesn't mean that he has forgotten how it is or should be done done.

Check your PMs. ;)

[jocko]

Yes I did assume and u kknow what assume means to.

got ur PM; thanks.....

[apheod]

i still say kahr needs to make a k45. i'd rock a k45 elite all day.

[JFootin]

i still say kahr needs to make a k45. i'd rock a k45 elite all day.

+1 on that!

[jocko]

now would that be a dandy gun!! would it sell like hotcakes???? I doubt it, . That would be a major investment to go into production with a K45 as everything would have to be "bigger". probably internals could stay the same but it would be very costly and I think the retun in sales would be mimimal. Just my 2 cents. The K9i has have 17 years to work it qirks out, not sure I would be around long enough to see all the quirks worke dout in a K45. It could very easily be a P380 in disquise to. as dirty harry would say, u wanna take a chance on did I shoot 5 times or 6???, well something on that order..

[HadEmAll]

Today for my daughter-in-law's birthday I took the family to Luby's. I never go there anymore, as I think it's a poor imitation of its former self, but it was her choice. She's 8 months pregnant, so no arguing with that.

Anyway, I had the PM9 on me. Full of Corbon 115 grain +P JHP. Two spare magazines. Sitting there, my thoughts drifted to another Texas Luby's about 20 years ago, where 23 people were shot dead, and 20 wounded in one 10 minute period by a single gunman using Glock and Ruger 9mm's. All unarmed sheeple by then Texas law. They all thought they were out for a nice lunch.

If I had not been hit by the truck coming through the window, or one of his first victims, I have NO doubt I could have taken him out with the initial 7 rounds in the PM9. (I know it wasn't around then). At least I could have tried. He stopped shooting to change magazines several times.

An 8 shot 1911 would possibly have been better in that circumstance, but I imagine any red blooded man or woman there would have sold their soul for that little PM9.

[gb6491]

As a CCW in .45 ACP, either works for me:
http://oi54.tinypic.com/faap3k.jpg
Regards,
Greg

[O'Dell]

Today for my daughter-in-law's birthday I took the family to Luby's. I never go there anymore, as I think it's a poor imitation of its former self, but it was her choice. She's 8 months pregnant, so no arguing with that.

Anyway, I had the PM9 on me. Full of Corbon 115 grain +P JHP. Two spare magazines. Sitting there, my thoughts drifted to another Texas Luby's about 20 years ago, where 23 people were shot dead, and 20 wounded in one 10 minute period by a single gunman using Glock and Ruger 9mm's. All unarmed sheeple by then Texas law. They all thought they were out for a nice lunch.

If I had not been hit by the truck coming through the window, or one of his first victims, I have NO doubt I could have taken him out with the initial 7 rounds in the PM9. (I know it wasn't around then). At least I could have tried. He stopped shooting to change magazines several times.

An 8 shot 1911 would possibly have been better in that circumstance, but I imagine any red blooded man or woman there would have sold their soul for that little PM9.

That was a real tragedy. I wish you could have been there with your PM9.

[jlottmc]

To the original OP, either Kahr or 1911, or even a DA/SA works for me. I change my carry weapon a couple of times a week, you'll get used to them and won't even think about the differences. I prefer .357, 40, 45, and anything bigger than 357 that says magnum, but that's just me. I do have a CZ52 with some little hollowpoints that I want to test against a hog to make sure that I don't have over penetration problems, but that's how it goes.

[Barth]

I'm not sure I can abide by such small under-powered handguns for CCW.

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo39/fe/7d/12e28938ad62__1319999884000.jpghttps://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo22/2c/cf/09a3df448c4b__1320000657000.jpg

[jlottmc]

I know that wasn't directed at me, if I recall it was you who just got the new 357.

[Barth]

I know that wasn't directed at me, if I recall it was you who just got the new 357.

My 640-1 is visiting with the gunsmith and unavailable for photos - LOL!

[jlottmc]

Uh huh, mine work just fine out of the box. Both of them. I do need to get a 41 and 44 magnum in my battery though. I need a 500 for giggles too. I'm working on that and some more right now. Oh and FYI, I don't care for 45 Colt, I'd rather have a 44 mag. That should be fun when I go looking for a matching carbine.