Forget whatever you thought about NYPD trigger

[judgnot]

This topic has been beaten up here and yet there is still zero clarity on this topic.

Let me start by saying I am thorough in my gun purchase preparation and that is an understatment.

Earlier this year I decided I wanted a K9 and I was adamant in getting one with the elite trigger. I quickly realized there is a ton of confusion and misinformation on the topic and was careful to do my homework.

You know what, I'm sick of this post already. I've never been more frustrated with a firearms manufacturer.

Basically my new K9 is a piece of **** that locks the slide back with rounds in the mag. Has a slide that doesn't return fully to battery. Has internals that look like they tumbled down a staircase with rough edges, snags, score marks and burrs all over it. The side of the feed ramp looks like torn paper. The magazine base plate fitment with the grip looks like it belongs to a $200 jennings. The slide to frame fitment is as sloppy as a whore on payday.

It's just a disappointing gun.

So sure enough I call Kahr. .. Low and behold, guess what, it has the facking NYPD trigger in it. Old production you say? No, made in april of this year. Throw anything you thought you knew about NYPD trigger application out the window. The "C" after the serial number, ya forget that too. The C on the box, yea stupid me, how could I miss such an obvious description. Your best bet is to just assume that you'll have absolutely no way to know what you're getting.

The fact that Kahr makes this so confusing to know is an example of absolutely moronic business practice.

My regional Kahr rep was so quick to assure me that the new K9's have the elite trigger unless specifically ordered otherwise. So even Kahr doesn't know what the F they are selling because I dang sure didn't order this. What's that you say, bring it up with the gun store? Actually I feel sorry for them because they are a fantastic shop yet I'm sure in the coming days they are going to get pulled into this **** storm that is brewing through no fault of their own. I mean how the heck are they supposed to know when Kahr themselves don't know. They didn't order the gun this way and unless you're sherlock holmes and work in the kahr factory there is no way to know what you're looking at. Surely the nonexistent break down of the difference on kahrs site is of tons of help.

What a complete disappointment. I'm going to have this gun replaced. It's a damn lemon and was sold to me under misleading or otherwise undisclosed circumstances. Tall order you say? I agree.

LMAO, just read my work.. I know, deep breaths. Hope everyone is having a good day.

[apheod]

ouch. the issues you're describing sound similar to what i had with my k9 elite 03 i just bought new from grabagun.com. the internals were rough and not deburred. my base plate fitment was also fine. slide to frame had a little bit of side to side play but nothing i was worried about. it came to me with a scratch on the frame next to the slide release spring's rollpin, as though it had been sloppily removed. i did have about 20 premature slide locks in the first 225 rounds, and the slide would slick about 1/32" from coming all the way forward intermittently. it's back at kahr ATM, they seem to be on top of getting it taken care of so far, but i will save my final judgement for after i receive it back and shoot it again.

[judgnot]

apheod, I read and replied to your post regarding those issues you (and me) are having with your gun. In fact reading your post was what lit the fire under me to stop postponing my call to kahr yesterday morning which is when I was informed that I was sold a gun that has intentionally had the trigger designed to be exactly the opposite of what i have to assume 99% of civilian gun purchasers would desire.

How these NYPD trigger systems are even allowed to slip out into the public is just another example of morons at the factory reigns as far as I'm concerned

BTW i hope the gun comes back to your satisfaction. I'll be taking mine a step furhter. This isn't the gun I want or ordered. It has the wrong trigger system and is a lemon. I will have it replaced with what I ordered or else they can deal with me for a long time to come.

[Indigo]

Don't give up yet. I have both elite and an nypd trigger some people don't think they can tell a difference but I definitely can there's way more loose sloppy play in the nypd. If you stay calm on the phone and present your case based on my several Kahr cs experiences I believe they will address this for you. Once you get the trigger right and shoot a couple hundred rounds through it all those rough edges will be gone. It's a really accurate piece.

[judgnot]

I come across much more hot headed in these posts than I will while I'm presenting, arguing and winning my case with Kahr. I know these guns have the potential to be nice as I've handled or know of many good ones. I also agree that there is a difference in the trigger systems and my strong preference is for the elite system. Whether it's a small difference, one you have to look for or one that most people wouldn't notice is beside the point anyway. This has completely become a matter of principles for me now and nothing gets me more animated than that.

[Indigo]

No I get it I have gone to ridiculous lengths on some of my principals before. About a year ago when I got my all black K9 I tried to upgrade to elite trigger and they told me they only make that in stainless color so I'm not sure the person on phone was even clear about it as all other black polymer Kahr's I thought had that same trigger but maybe none of the parts are interchangeable. Keep that in mind if you have black K9 but maybe things are different now. Whether you get that trigger or just upgrade to the Elite 03 I really think it will be worth the wait. I had the same slide lock issues in first few hundred rounds but I have shot a couple thousand since flawless ones. Weak hand, strong, all good. It will get there.

[gb6491]

...
Basically my new K9 is a piece of **** that locks the slide back with rounds in the mag. Has a slide that doesn't return fully to battery. Has internals that look like they tumbled down a staircase with rough edges, snags, score marks and burrs all over it. The side of the feed ramp looks like torn paper. The magazine base plate fitment with the grip looks like it belongs to a $200 jennings. The slide to frame fitment is as sloppy as a whore on payday.
...
judgnot,
Sorry to hear about the problems with your K9.
I've had some concerns as of late, could you possibly post photos of internals, feed ramp, and any other areas of concern on your gun-?
Regards,
Greg

[judgnot]

Greg, have you had any of the same problems I mention having with mine?

It's kind of scary really. I look through the tech section and all i see is just one problem after another. So many individual's stories of their experiences with customer service etc. We shouldn't even have to be talking to those folks guys. The P380 just sounds like a total nightmare. I know the general rule is that the disgruntled are the ones to speak up but the more time I spend on this forum the more turned off I become of kahr in general. LOTS of problems is what I see. These are freaking personal defense guns and that's about the scariest part.

The pictures I can do but it won't be immediately though. As busy as I am it's a shame I'm going to lose what I'm sure will end up being many hours getting my satisfaction out of this ordeal. I feel totally cheated by kahr.

[gb6491]

Greg, have you had any of the same problems I mention having with mine? ..No, my own Kahrs have been humming along (though I did have some issues with the 45 early on); my concerns are in regards to a new CM9 that I handled recently. I saw enough external issues to give pause, but I was not able to get a peek at the internals. I'd appreciate any photos you can possibly do. Thanks.
Regards,
Greg

[Fatee]

I'm suspect.

I ordered my K9 Black Monday. Received it on Wednesday.

It's gorgeous. Fitting, finish, slide, internals are of exceptional quality. The slide to frame fit is tight, smooth, on ball bearings.

I have the elite trigger... It's a very high quality gun.

I'd put the quality up there with my old Springfield Armory Professional 1911 and that was a $2,000.00 gun.

[JohnR]

Is Kahr outsourcing production to Kel-Tec now? :D

[apheod]

I'm suspect.

forgive me if i'm reading this wrong, but you're suspect of our reports being erroneous?

[Bill K]

I believe something needs to be fixed at Kahr... Seems some, I hope most, get a jewel and others get junk. I've never been in manufacturing, can someone tell me if this is mostly a QC issue? I hope it isn't that Kahr just doesn't care.

[yqtszhj]

I believe something needs to be fixed at Kahr... Seems some, I hope most, get a jewel and others get junk. I've never been in manufacturing, can someone tell me if this is mostly a QC issue? I hope it isn't that Kahr just doesn't care.

I've worked in manufacturing and have seen this when the company is trying to cut cost or boost profits by hiring temporary untrained help, contract out manufacturing of parts, can't meet demand and just send it out as is to meet a deadline, new upper management makes changes when they don't know what really needs to happen and "yes men" say nothing, or all of the above.

I'm dealing with poor leadership in the industry where I work now. Same junk different company. It's sooooo frustrating.

[judgnot]

forgive me if i'm reading this wrong, but you're suspect of our reports being erroneous?


yea, good question. Sounds like an attempt at a somewhat less offensive way of telling me I'm making this up.

There's hope for now. I've talked with my regional rep again. The gun will be fixed and sold. I will be replacing it under the kahr VIP program which is enough of a discount to compensate for the loss I'll take selling this one.

I'll keep the updates coming and work on pictures. For now it's time for me to go root on my #7 Oregon Ducks.

[jocko]

u guys are real pros in telling the difference of 1/8" longer trigger pull. take it for what it is worht, that is the ONLY DIFFERENCE in the elite over NYPD trigger. No doubt if one orders a K9 and it wa ssupposed tocome with the elite trigger and then not, it shouldbe corected but to down grade the NYPD trigger to a junk cheapo trigger. it certainly is not. ..Up until about ayear ago, 90% of all K9 were out of factory wth the NYPD trigger, now it is considered special order to get the NYPD trigger which makes more sense IMO as evfery othger kahr made has the elite trigger in them.. as far as judgnot poor quality of his K9 that is certainly not normal for kahrs K9...

[Jeff00042]

Judgnot: GO DUCKS!

[mr surveyor]

u guys are real pros in telling the difference of 1/8" longer trigger pull. take it for what it is worht, that is the ONLY DIFFERENCE in the elite over NYPD trigger. No doubt if one orders a K9 and it wa ssupposed tocome with the elite trigger and then not, it shouldbe corected but to down grade the NYPD trigger to a junk cheapo trigger. it certainly is not. ..Up until about ayear ago, 90% of all K9 were out of factory wth the NYPD trigger, now it is considered special order to get the NYPD trigger which makes more sense IMO as evfery othger kahr made has the elite trigger in them.. as far as judgnot poor quality of his K9 that is certainly not normal for kahrs K9...



Jocko

I'm not doubting you on this (what I "bolded"), but can you direct me to some type of verification directly from Kahr that woupld substantiate this? I have a total of zero personal knowledge on the issue, but have read the same claim that the NYPD trigger is now an option on new orders. The subject came up on another web forum recently and I was told by a K9 owner that I was wrong.

Just curious

surv

[jocko]

It is an option now where as at one time 90%of all K9 were NYPD. I think the reason it has changedf back to the elite being the norm now is that at one time the K9 was on the approved off duty carry list of the NYPD and for some reason today Ithink the K9 is no longer on their approved carry listing, so maybe the decision was why put this trigger on K9's today when it is really not desired by most all other owners.

But the NYPD trigger is not a junk trigger by any means, same quality as the elite trigger system only 1`/8: pull longer, trigger poundage change is the same in the elite and nypd K9's.

My K9 has the NYPD trigger in it and I shoot it better than my pM9 with the elite trigger. I know two different guns to, so that should make sense, but for me I am just not that aqcute at telling that trigger travel distance to be able to say with certainty that a K9 has the NYPD

[mr surveyor]

Jocko

I just can't find in the Kahr literature where they state that this is now the way the new K9's are shipped. The data on the official website showing the K9 to have the NYPD trigger is dated in 2010.

I would like to be able to cover my claim on the other forum of the Elite trigger being the norm for the K9 now, if it is in fact Kahr policy.

Thanks

surv

[jocko]

best I can tell u is maybe call kahr and get it from the horse mouth, would not be the first time that we see stuff on the kahr webb site that is outdated.

[CJB]

Blame the person who ordered it for you.

They IN MOST LIKELYHOOD did not order from Kahr, but from a jobber/wholesaler. In that case, Kahr themselves had no control over what was shipped.

[Gideon]

Wow; sorry you're having such problems but frankly I think you're getting carried away. First of all the NYPD spec is clear cut and designated by model number. Some dealers folks order from aren't carefull enough with the details. I don't believe for a minute that Kahr is turning out their normal K9's with NYPD triggers. Sorry.

Anyway, Kahr has always seemd to draw a lot of critisim. Not sure why but I have 4 of them and they've been the most reliable and accurate defensive gun's I've ever owned.

the P380 I believe is the best all round pocket .380 currently on the market. Mine will shoot anything as will my K9, P9 and MK9.

When I bought my K9, my dealer got it in and it was actually NYPD model. I noticed that "nomenclature" on the box but didn't think anything of it until I got it home, shot it, and read up on it.

It adds 1/8" to LOP. It's straight forward. I eventually paid the $150 to get the trigger upgraded to the regular (elite) trigger. I only spent the money to do so be cause I'm anal that way and wanted my Kahr triggers to be the same.

PersonallyI think the Kahr's are just about perfect for CCW. No mag disconect, no external controls, slim, perfect sights, a smooth clean DAO trigger. Can't find any fault with them.

However you can always get a lemon; it happens. My favoite story is the lemon SP101 revolver I bought. They have the BEST reputation but mine locked up on the first range trip. Still Ruger fixed it replacing the barrel and some other parts and now its good.

So relax, get the gun to Kahr and when it's done you'll have one of the best CCW guns out there.

Gideon

[judgnot]

Gideon I'm not necessarily finding the message in your writing but I'll comment on it all the samw... I never said they were putting NY triggers in "normal" K9's. I said they make it so confusing with their lack of "nomenclature" that both an educated buyer and a dealer were unable to verify. Poor management/marketing.

The P380...have you looked through this forum? This gun seems to be the worst. This site is littered with complaints about that model.

My k9 actually just came back from kahr for a problem that was not fixed. There's a whole thread about slides not returning to battery and the longer it goes on the more I learn that mine is just one of a growing list of guns that have this problem and kahr is unable to fix. call it what you want but I call it a fault.

Say what you want about kahr. This site has tons of problem guns and my first and only kahr is one of them. Say what you will but the proof is in the pudding. For me so far they're junk. Would you feel differently?