100 Crimes and Counting...

[LaP]

http://biggovernment.com/jjmnolte/2011/10/28/occupywallstreet-the-rap-sheet-so-far/
Wall street protesters...Yeah, these people are just like the Tea Party.:cool:
Joe Biden should be very proud of the response he's been advocating. Well done.

[OldLincoln]

These are the same folks that will loot and burn when trouble comes. Instead of lifting up society, their objective is to bring it down - any way they can.

[LaP]

Is this the new Jobs program that Obama is pushing? Employing unionized public workers to clean up the garbage left by old hippies??? ... Free legal representation for anarchists???... No-arrest drug zones???... and of course, Voter Registration booths for the democratic party.

[TheTman]

Here's a very well articulated video of what the occupy _________ crowd is trying to accomplish:
http://kartalk.pccomps.com/Occupy_Atlanta.wmv

[O'Dell]

Is this the new Jobs program that Obama is pushing? Employing unionized public workers to clean up the garbage left by old hippies??? ... Free legal representation for anarchists???... No-arrest drug zones???... and of course, Voter Registration booths for the democratic party.

Actually you're not far off. In the Obama jobs bill over 90% of the jobs that were supposed to be created were union jobs. He's got to pay off those unions for their support some way.

[TheTman]

I keep hearing that they're importing Union thugs into these Occupy whatever places just to keep things stirred up.

[roscoguy]

...Union thugs...
Oh, please. :rolleyes: There is some sort of basis for this?
Actually, I heard that they were importing a bunch of grumpy old men to holler "Go home and take a bath, ya' dang hippies!" :p

[mr surveyor]

oh, please. :rolleyes: There is some sort of basis for this?
Actually, i heard that they were importing a bunch of grumpy old may to holler "go home and take a bath, ya' dang hippies!" :p




seiu

[roscoguy]

seiu
I know union people are showing up; just exactly where does the "thugs" part come from? Surely this doesn't this mean that you believe that all union members are thugs? BTW, there also seem to be a number of vet's from Iraq & Afghanistan showing up as well; not exactly your garden variety malcontent, I'd say.
Let's face it: once these types of protest movements start to swell, there will inevitably be some that get carried away - literally & figuratively. It also won't be hard to find someone in the crowd who can't eloquently express their own thoughts* - much less those of hundreds or thousands of others. While it may seem comical to show a street interview of someone stumbling over their own words, what they don't show is that there are many others who have very well articulated concerns.
One of the those that I seem to hear most often expressed is that there is way to much influence by big business & big money in American politics. Also heard is that it was yet another get-rich-quick scheme by Wall Street that has nearly brought our - if not the world's - economy to it's knees. Many of these protesters know that they may never have a chance at the type of life that was their goal before the meltdown. There definitely are others with more selfish and/or "socialist" views, but these 2 at least are not exactly radical, IMO.
Besides, in all likelihood this "movement" never will be organized & will deteriorate after 1 or 2 ugly events. Then we'll all go back to business as usual: our elected representatives will be for sale to the highest bidder & will only drag out all their "social issues" to distract voters at election time.

*(Sarah Palin & Michele Bachmann come to mind... :blah:)

[LaP]

So, how does commiting crimes further their goals? How does disrupting city streets accomplish "fairness" in business? How does running up city budgets (cleanup, police, medical, ...) convince people that big business is bad?
I'm a little slow. Please educate me.:cool:

[kenduc999]

Oh, please. :rolleyes: There is some sort of basis for this?
Actually, I heard that they were importing a bunch of grumpy old men to holler "Go home and take a bath, ya' dang hippies!" :p

If They're not, they should be.

http://i41.tinypic.com/k2l9uf.jpg
Source for pic:
http://agoodchoice.blogspot.com/2011/10/wholl-pick-up-wall-st-trash.html

[les strat]

I know union people are showing up; just exactly where does the "thugs" part come from? Surely this doesn't this mean that you believe that all union members are thugs? BTW, there also seem to be a number of vet's from Iraq & Afghanistan showing up as well; not exactly your garden variety malcontent, I'd say.
Let's face it: once these types of protest movements start to swell, there will inevitably be some that get carried away - literally & figuratively. It also won't be hard to find someone in the crowd who can't eloquently express their own thoughts* - much less those of hundreds or thousands of others. While it may seem comical to show a street interview of someone stumbling over their own words, what they don't show is that there are many others who have very well articulated concerns.
One of the those that I seem to hear most often expressed is that there is way to much influence by big business & big money in American politics. Also heard is that it was yet another get-rich-quick scheme by Wall Street that has nearly brought our - if not the world's - economy to it's knees. Many of these protesters know that they may never have a chance at the type of life that was their goal before the meltdown. There definitely are others with more selfish and/or "socialist" views, but these 2 at least are not exactly radical, IMO.
Besides, in all likelihood this "movement" never will be organized & will deteriorate after 1 or 2 ugly events. Then we'll all go back to business as usual: our elected representatives will be for sale to the highest bidder & will only drag out all their "social issues" to distract voters at election time.

*(Sarah Palin & Michele Bachmann come to mind... :blah:)

I agree about the money being thrown at Washington and buying politicians part. Anybody with common sense should believe that is wrong. I also believe in their right to peacefully assemble just as much as I do the 2nd Ammendment. But many, if not most of those protestors go way beyond that where they want a piece of someone elses fruit of labor. All that does is play Robin Hood. Stealing from the rich, middle, and working poor classes. If they had any sense at all, they would realize that all that does is keep that group down and dependent upon others. It's way more controlling than capitalism.

Sadly, this group of people and their supporters are the ones who call the Tea Party racist, rednecks, etc. Libs don't recongnize their own hypocrisy. Kind of like attacking Cain's character. Since when has character and morals mattered to libtards??????

[O'Dell]

I know union people are showing up; just exactly where does the "thugs" part come from? Surely this doesn't this mean that you believe that all union members are thugs?


In some unions, pretty much yes. The Government Employees Union comes to mind. In other unions maybe the Non-thugs outnumber the thugs, but since they never protest the thugly behavior of others, I would call them guilty by association.

[muggsy]

I was a member of the United Steel Workers, The IAM and UAW, All three of those unions were full of thugs and near-do-wells. :)

[Bawanna]

Deep breathing folks. Consider before hitting the post button.

Don't do me ugly, I don't need any help.

I think we need a special sub heading for this political stuff. Maybe over on that Austrian forum. It's too depressing for me but then I might just be too darn sensitive.

I'm putting my head back in the sand for now. Still being kind of new here I'll just lurk ya know?

[roscoguy]

I was a member of the United Steel Workers, The IAM and UAW, All three of those unions were full of thugs and near-do-wells. :)
so are boardrooms & government office buildings... :p

In some unions, pretty much yes. The Government Employees Union comes to mind. In other unions maybe the Non-thugs outnumber the thugs, but since they never protest the thugly behavior of others, I would call them guilty by association.

thug

noun

a member of a former group in India that murdered and robbed in the service of Kali
a rough, brutal hoodlum, gangster, robber, etc.

Origin: Hindi ṭhag, swindler < Sans sthaga, a cheat, rogue, akin to sthagayati, (he) hides < IE base *(s)teg-, to cover > thatch (http://www.yourdictionary.com/thatch)



So you guys are saying that these people were all from India? :confused:
Name-calling aside, what was the activity by the union members (at the "Occupy _______") that warrants the description "thugs"?

[roscoguy]

Deep breathing folks. Consider before hitting the post button.

Don't do me ugly, I don't need any help.

I think we need a special sub heading for this political stuff. Maybe over on that Austrian forum. It's too depressing for me but then I might just be too darn sensitive.

I'm putting my head back in the sand for now. Still being kind of new here I'll just lurk ya know?
I think I get the message, and I'm staying civil. I didn't come here looking for an argument; sometimes the 'anti-everyone else':31: rhetoric gets to me, that's all...

[LaP]

Name-calling aside, what was the activity by the union members (at the "Occupy _______") that warrants the description "thugs"?

Did you read the list of 100 crimes in the very first post? I believe one or two may apply to thuggery.
Civil discourse is alive a well. At least it is here. :D

[roscoguy]

Is this the new Jobs program that Obama is pushing? Employing unionized public workers to clean up the garbage left by old hippies??? ... Free legal representation for anarchists???... No-arrest drug zones???... and of course, Voter Registration booths for the democratic party.
Now this is just silly. :rolleyes:
A similar logic could say that the fact that Texan children are being put to work by the drug cartels = Rick Perry's jobs program. :crazy:

So, how does committing crimes further their goals? How does disrupting city streets accomplish "fairness" in business? How does running up city budgets (cleanup, police, medical, ...) convince people that big business is bad?
I'm a little slow. Please educate me.:cool:
I can only try...:D As I said earlier "there will inevitably be some that get carried away" when you get enough dissatisfied/passionate young people together in one place. The group as a whole is not involved in criminal activity. While I don't condone the things on the list of "crimes", I'm certainly pleased & relieved that the whole movement hasn't turned into wide-scale violence as has happened in London, Greece, etc.
How else would you suggest that they make their concerns heard? Writing letters to their Congresspersons? I don't think letters from "concerned citizens" carry nearly as much weight as huge campaign contributions. Or maybe they could get elected/appointed to the BoD of the Wall Street firms? The truth is: organized demonstration is a 1st Amendment right and is the only tool that would likely get these people heard. By and large, they are working within the system that we have.

Did you read the list of 100 crimes in the very first post? I believe one or two may apply to thuggery.
Civil discourse is alive a well. At least it is here. :D
I've looked at the list, but we're still dancing around my question. The statement was made that: "I keep hearing that they're importing Union thugs into these Occupy whatever places just to keep things stirred up."So where on the list, or anywhere else, is there an indication of union thuggery?

[LaP]

Roscoguy, I guess we're just arguing over the level of participation in criminal activities.

The police reports do not indicate the number of union members that torched buldings or destoyed private property, but one can made a reasonable conclusion that the union members did not just stand by and watch these events. If they did, there's still the perception of guilt by association. If I were present during a riot, I would surely distance myself from any criminal behavior.
Union members proudly declare that they stand with the Occupy protesters.... therefore, they take the heat from the buring fires also.
If I had two cents, I'd throw that in as well.;)

[roscoguy]

Roscoguy, I guess we're just arguing over the level of participation in criminal activities.
Not exactly, I have yet to see ANY allegations of union participation in violence or criminal activity except for innuendos made in this thread.

The police reports do not indicate the number of union members that torched buldings or destoyed private property, but one can made a reasonable conclusion that the union members did not just stand by and watch these events. If they did, there's still the perception of guilt by association. If I were present during a riot, I would surely distance myself from any criminal behavior.
Union members proudly declare that they stand with the Occupy protesters.... therefore, they take the heat from the buring fires also.
If I had two cents, I'd throw that in as well.;)First, I didn't see any mention of "torched buildings" anywhere on your list. (And no, I didn't read every entire article & I suspect you didn't either... I did notice that Glasgow made the list somehow though. :rolleyes:)
Second, it's actually a ridiculous assumption "that the union members did not just stand by and watch these events." This logic would also presume that all the grandmothers & gradeschoolers present at these protests had a part in any burning and other property destruction. :crazy:
Third, your perception of guilt by association is nothing I could effect even if I thought I should try. Show me the actual occurrence of illegal Union activity that you and others have alluded to & I'll shut up. Otherwise...

[LaP]

No need to "shut up". Continue. You're doing fine.
I can be as ridiculous as needed. Those Tea Party crazies stand up for my right to be ridiculous, Occupy protesters would have me surrender my life's work.
P.S. Keep looking at the list of crimes. They speak volumes.;)

[roscoguy]

No need to "shut up". Continue. You're doing fine.Well, actually I only meant that I'd quit asking for you to back up your claims of Union involvement in any criminal activity. ;)

I can be as ridiculous as needed. Those Tea Party crazies stand up for my right to be ridiculous You said it, not me! :D

Occupy protesters would have me surrender my life's work.I hadn't seen that particular demand. I be upset if they singled me out, too!

P.S. Keep looking at the list of crimes. They speak volumes.;)Here we are again. Not only are they not all even crimes, but you still can't show me any Union involvement in anything on the list at all. This exchange is becoming pointless or worse. Its already quite apparent that there are no facts available to back up your claims, and that speaks volumes. :blah:

[WMD]

Yeah...., thank the lord we have Unions. They have really contributed to this country, right? They may have done some good in the early 1900's but now....? Among other things, they are there to protect the non-performers! The Unions essentially brought the auto industry to its knees. Talk about a jobs program! Maybe I should have said "job elimination" program. And the Unions are clearly siding with Occupy Wallstreet folks who do not want to work for a living but rather, have the government take care of them. Socialism at its best.

Why anyone would ever support Unions or anything they stand for is beyond me. BTW, I have worked in Union shops and "thuggery" is absolutely very prevelant. That seems to be their standard mode of operation.

JMO :D

[Bawanna]

Absolutely agreed WMD. They have always held me back. I couldn't get paid extra for above average work unless everyone got more.

That's all I got to say about that..................

[melissa5]

Yeah...., thank the lord we have Unions. They have really contributed to this country, right? They may have done some good in the early 1900's but now....? Among other things, they are there to protect the non-performers! The Unions essentially brought the auto industry to its knees. Talk about a jobs program! Maybe I should have said "job elimination" program. And the Unions are clearly siding with Occupy Wallstreet folks who do not want to work for a living but rather, have the government take care of them. Socialism at its best.

Why anyone would ever support Unions or anything they stand for is beyond me. BTW, I have worked in Union shops and "thuggery" is absolutely very prevelant. That seems to be their standard mode of operation.

JMO :D

I also agree with you about unions.

[WMD]

Unfortunately, Obama is putting a very large chunk of our hard earned tax dollars right into the Unions pockets. :(

The big O's "jobs program" is a 90% Union biased program. By the way, does everyone understand that the Government sector is over 40% Union and the Private Sector is only 7% Union? It was not that long ago that Unions were legally not allowed in Government. The Occupy Wall street folks should be barking up the Union tree not large corporations that provide jobs for the majority of the working people in the US.

[Bawanna]

Funny too, I've never heard of a Union laying off employees or experiencing budget cuts. They always seem to have plenty of people and plenty of money.

About half of my employment career has been union because I had to join to get employed. It's a great deal for people who want a nice check without earning it.

I got lots more dividends and raises working on my own merit without a business agent lobbying for me.

Now I'm really done and out of here. WMD, you really can stir the pot mister.

[mr surveyor]

it's nice to live in a "Right to Work State", although the union b.s. is still somewhat around in the "govmint" type jobs and a few others. I've never understood the union "flock" mentality. Been independent, self reliant and strived for personal responsibility and accountability all my life, and ain't gonna change.

The above statements really have nothing much to do with the original post about the whacko, left wing, socialist, occupy the city park kooks pretending to be 60's hippies that are going to save the world from itself.

It's nice to be part of the 53 percenters that pay income taxes that have a right to complain:D

[LMT42]

The above statements really have nothing much to do with the original post about the whacko, left wing, socialist, occupy the city park kooks pretending to be 60's hippies that are going to save the world from itself.


So it's whacko, left wing, socialist idealism to want corporate and bank money/influence out of government? It's nutty to want Glass Steagall reinacted and to stop socializing bank losses? :rolleyes:

Y'all might want to note that there's a growing contingent of ex-military in the OWS movement. There's more joining every day since Oakland's "finest" put a marine in I.C.U..

[mightymouse]

Its always the ignorant that resort to name calling, labeling of a few misfits and then yuk it up with no more thought or research.
The media is fixated on the extremes. How recently was the TEA party typically portrayed as a bunch of toothless bubbas, period dressed whack-os?

[mr surveyor]

ex military, former military, Catholic Nuns or Baptist preachers... I don't care what bunch you want to lump into the "OWS bowel movement"... it still reeks of socialism and communism.

I "came of age" during the 60's, and had enough sense then to distance myself from anti-American sentiments then, and I ain't gonna change now!

Grow a pair and become a little more self reliant and develop a sense of personal responsibility. Quit bichin' and moanin' about "the man" and become one. You sleep much better at night.

[roscoguy]

So it's whacko, left wing, socialist idealism to want corporate and bank money/influence out of government? It's nutty to want Glass Steagall reinacted and to stop socializing bank losses? :rolleyes:

Y'all might want to note that there's a growing contingent of ex-military in the OWS movement. There's more joining every day since Oakland's "finest" put a marine in I.C.U..
Holey moley! Someone else who can actually think for themselves instead of swallowing Beck/Limbaugh without a chaser??? :eek: I'm afraid we're outnumbered, bub.

Amazing how people are just furious that autoworkers, etc. could actually make a decent living yet have no qualms about the leeches in the entertainment industry making up to $100M per year. Also unionized: firefighters; police; pilots & most other airline employees; teachers & professors; miners; oil, chemical & atomic workers; etc, etc. All overpaid thugs!


The Unions essentially brought the auto industry to its knees.
Bull. It was ugly designs, crappy engineering, arrogant dealers & refusal to accept change that nearly killed the US auto industry. I lived there for 33+ years, that is definitely NOT JMO.

And besides, although I've enjoyed the dance thoroughly, not a one of you has given a single instance of "thuggery" or any other type of violent/criminal activity performed by Union members at the "Uccupy ______" protests. The only thing I keep hearing is your own bias.
And as I've already said: there may well be "thugs" in Unions, by they are at the very least equally present in corporate boardrooms. IMO ;)

Hate the Unions with all your little hearts. It doesn't effect me one whit. :hippie:

[LaP]

Hate the Unions with all your little hearts. It doesn't effect me one whit
Hate the Unions with all your little hearts. It doesn't effect me one whit
Hate the Unions with all your little hearts. It doesn't effect me one whit

OK, OK... You convinced me. Unions are good. MSNBC, Obama, Michael Moore and SEIU have said so, therefore it is gospel.
Oh wait, do I have to reference and cite each endorsement? I'm not real good at that.... you'll just have to trust me on it.:rolleyes:

[WMD]

If you believe Unions had nothing to do with the breaking of the Auto Industry, you have been sipping your own tea a bit too much. Perhaps a course in business 101 might be in order. BTW, it is not only the Auto Industry that can no longer afford Unions, it is beginning to effect Teacher's and local government organizations in certain area's of the US. There are some large (and small) cties very close to going bankrupt in our country. I guess they can't afford all those (annually increasing ) lifetime salaries and accompanying benefits!

[JFootin]

This should make everything perfectly clear. :001_huh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW56Z-0xwIQ
(http://kahrtalk.com/Haftin%27%20To%20Be%20Uproared)

[popgoestheweasel]

Yeah...., thank the lord we have Unions. They have really contributed to this country, right? They may have done some good in the early 1900's but now....? Among other things, they are there to protect the non-performers! The Unions essentially brought the auto industry to its knees. Talk about a jobs program! Maybe I should have said "job elimination" program. And the Unions are clearly siding with Occupy Wallstreet folks who do not want to work for a living but rather, have the government take care of them. Socialism at its best.

Why anyone would ever support Unions or anything they stand for is beyond me. BTW, I have worked in Union shops and "thuggery" is absolutely very prevelant. That seems to be their standard mode of operation.

JMO :D


WMD and others of a like mind about Union's.....likely nice people, however, terribly wrong about Unions, their continued contributions, purpose, and the hard-working HUMAN BEINGS who belong to them.

Proud to be Union and YES, thank the Lord we have a voice in the workplace dominated by greedy people who 'have the gold-n- RULE'.

[WMD]

I am sure you are a decent human as well and certainly mean no disrespect but......

I have worked in Union shops and have seen how folks that do not carry their load are protected by the Union. I have seen how everyone gets paid the same ampount regardless of how great (or how little) effort the individual puts in the job. IMO, Unions breed laziness and greed. Again, look at the auto industry.

You will never convince me otherwise. I want to be recognized and paid based upon my contribution and performance, not based upon the lowest common denominator! I do not need, or want, anyone taking care of me. I want to be the master of my fate. :D

If you work hard, I have found employers treat you well. There is no need for Unions.

[popgoestheweasel]

I agree about the money being thrown at Washington and buying politicians part. Anybody with common sense should believe that is wrong. I also believe in their right to peacefully assemble just as much as I do the 2nd Ammendment. But many, if not most of those protestors go way beyond that where they want a piece of someone elses fruit of labor. All that does is play Robin Hood. Stealing from the rich, middle, and working poor classes. If they had any sense at all, they would realize that all that does is keep that group down and dependent upon others. It's way more controlling than capitalism.

Sadly, this group of people and their supporters are the ones who call the Tea Party racist, rednecks, etc. Libs don't recongnize their own hypocrisy. Kind of like attacking Cain's character. Since when has character and morals mattered to libtards??????

Would it be unfair to question Cain's qualifications for POTUS when he recently made clear he doesn't know that China posseses neuclear capability/weapons.....and has for many many many years???

[LaP]

Call off the hounds. There are no violent union members in the Occupy Crowd.

Oh.... wait, did you see what they did in Oakland?
http://www.breitbart.tv/live-stream-occupyoakland-marches-to-block-port/

Nothing to see here. Hey, look over there.... Herman Cain just punched a baby in the mouth. :rolleyes:

[Bawanna]

I am sure you are a decent human as well and certainly mean no disrespect but......

I have worked in Union shops and have seen how folks that do not carry their load are protected by the Union. I have seen how everyone gets paid the same ampount regardless of how great (or how little) effort the individual puts in the job. IMO, Unions breed laziness and greed. Again, look at the auto industry.

You will never convince me otherwise. I want to be recognized and paid based upon my contribution and performance, not based upon the lowest common denominator! I do not need, or want, anyone taking care of me. I want to be the master of my fate. :D

If you work hard, I have found employers treat you well. There is no need for Unions.

I've been there and done that several times myself. I too want pay based on merit, not lowest common denominator. There's employee protection for non union shops too. I want to be my own man.

Even in city government the union controls my wages, what hours I can work and what jobs I can do or not do. Might be a place for the union in city government since no one in charge really owns anything and in some cases very little interest is success anyhow. Kind of where I am now. Leaderless.

I think of Boeing. They have separate unions for inside fork lift drivers and outside fork lift drivers. They can't cross over. Take the load to the door and let the outside guy take it from there when he gets around to it.

[popgoestheweasel]

I think it's important to remember collective bargaining is a 2 way street between organized labor and those who manage.

[Bawanna]

I think it's important to remember collective bargaining is a 2 way street between organized labor and those who manage.

That's the part I hate the most. The union bargains for the union, not always the worker.

I have a perfect example of that I will share later, don't have time to punch it out right now.

[Brittanyman]

I agree with you Bawanna. I was in a union for over 30 years. I was a teacher. The union didn''t look out after me, and they sure didn't look out after the school children. They would however champion the lousy teachers. I was a team leader and several times I approached the union concerning safety in the school that I taught. Safety for the teachers and the students from the thugs who came to school only to raise hell. We got no support.

We had a principal who sided with these thugs, because he felt he could "save them" with kindness. As a result there was no discipline in the school and the trouble makers were free to do what ever they wanted. One of my female teachers was attacked by a female student. The principal sided with the student. In my presence, he made the comment that some teachers deserved to be punched. He also told the students on report card day, that if they were unhappy with the grades they received that they could see him. He tried to get teachers to change grades. We told him that if he wanted to change a student's grade that he would have to do it himself over our protest. We ended up with a riot in the school. One group of gangbangers went after a rival group. Still no help. The union's answer was to ask for a transfer.

My dad was a steel worker and he told me similar stories about the union.

My neighbor was a supervisor at a local manufacturing plant. He told me a story similar to your comment about Boeing. The workers in his plant became so specialized that it was one of the reasons that the plant closed. If a machine or piece of equipment in the plant malfunctioned, no matter how minor. The machine operator wasn't allowed to clear it or make an adjustment that would get it up and running. It took hours to get the right "union" worker to come and fix it. This resulted in wasted man hours and loss of production time.

When I taught in school, I had a pencil sharpener that the kids used in the class. One day it quit working. I took it apart to see if I could fix it. The insides were all bent and busted up. Looks like one of my idiot students got tired of writing and jammed a steel rod in it and ran the sharpener. I went to the school supply clerk to get another one. She reminded me that I would have to put in a work order for one of the custodians/janitors to mount it on the desk.
Like the old one this one was screwed down onto the desk top.

I put a work order in and waited a week. No one showed up to install it. So I did it in a minute. Finally the custodian came to install it several days later. Man was he pissed that I did it. He said I violated the union contract.

[Brittanyman]

Another note on the union subject. I loved it when election time came. My work mailbox was stuffed with political literature from the union telling me who to vote for. Over those 30+ years of teaching, I never saw a republican on one of those "voter guides". Everytime I got the union voting menu it went in the garbage were it belonged.

The teachers' unions are pro-abortion and anti-gun, anti-hunting. I could never understand why teacher unions couldn't just stick to education issues and stay the hell out of social and political issues. They use my hefty union dues to support those issues, and I had no say in the matter. They wanted you to be a numb robot and follow the union/party line. If you voiced you concern about this issues at a union meeting, you were shouted down by the union officials.

Once I retired they severed all contact. I was told that I wanted help from them after I retired that I needed to keep paying my union dues. You think that after 30 years of paying dues, they would look after their retired union members.

[WMD]

Brittanyman,

You and Bawanna hit the nail right on the head!

[LaP]

If you have trouble hearing what is chanted, they're yelling "Peaceful Protests"....meanwhile, the crowd is smashing storefronts, throwing chairs thru windows and spray painting anarchist signs on the walls.


http://www.breitbart.tv/watch-violence-vandalism-mayhem-during-peaceful-non-violent-occupyoakland-protests/

I don't seem to be having any trouble hearing their message. Why does the mainstream meda not hear it?:cool:

[popgoestheweasel]

I agree with you Bawanna. I was in a union for over 30 years. I was a teacher. The union didn''t look out after me, and they sure didn't look out after the school children. They would however champion the lousy teachers. I was a team leader and several times I approached the union concerning safety in the school that I taught. Safety for the teachers and the students from the thugs who came to school only to raise hell. We got no support.

We had a principal who sided with these thugs, because he felt he could "save them" with kindness. As a result there was no discipline in the school and the trouble makers were free to do what ever they wanted. One of my female teachers was attacked by a female student. The principal sided with the student. In my presence, he made the comment that some teachers deserved to be punched. He also told the students on report card day, that if they were unhappy with the grades they received that they could see him. He tried to get teachers to change grades. We told him that if he wanted to change a student's grade that he would have to do it himself over our protest. We ended up with a riot in the school. One group of gangbangers went after a rival group. Still no help. The union's answer was to ask for a transfer.

I don't know how to do this 'multi-quote' thing but i'll give it a shot. First,
Brother Brittanyman, I mean no offense to you. As a Union man, you would know that YOU, the member, ARE the union and the highest of authority. Union's don't look after children for a number of reasons, not the least of which is they don't pay union dues. Secondly, it is the school's job to protect our children's best interest. Third, I didn't know Unions hired and paid security guards or bought metal detectors. Again, the schools responsibility to maintain discipline and safety of students and teachers alike. Lastly, if you were getting NO support from your Union officials, I think there are remedies you likely didn't pursue, or, you chose not to become part of the solution.


My dad was a steel worker and he told me similar stories about the union.

My neighbor was a supervisor at a local manufacturing plant. He told me a story similar to your comment about Boeing. The workers in his plant became so specialized that it was one of the reasons that the plant closed. If a machine or piece of equipment in the plant malfunctioned, no matter how minor. The machine operator wasn't allowed to clear it or make an adjustment that would get it up and running. It took hours to get the right "union" worker to come and fix it. This resulted in wasted man hours and loss of production time.

If, as you say, your father was 'in a Union', I'm betting you lived a pretty good life....thanks to the Union. Perhaps you aren't aware how the Union benefited YOU while growing into adulthood. I'll bet the Union FORCED plant management to become specialized by holding a gun to their head? Responsible Union leadership (and there are plenty of examples of such) know not to kill the golden goose. Responsible Union leadership has and will negotiate in good faith where it enhances job security for it's membership.

When I taught in school, I had a pencil sharpener that the kids used in the class. One day it quit working. I took it apart to see if I could fix it. The insides were all bent and busted up. Looks like one of my idiot students got tired of writing and jammed a steel rod in it and ran the sharpener. I went to the school supply clerk to get another one. She reminded me that I would have to put in a work order for one of the custodians/janitors to mount it on the desk.
Like the old one this one was screwed down onto the desk top.

I put a work order in and waited a week. No one showed up to install it. So I did it in a minute. Finally the custodian came to install it several days later. Man was he pissed that I did it. He said I violated the union contract.

Plain and simply, it's the Union's job to represent it's membership. School officials are to manage the workers. Obviously, management DIDN'T DO THEIR JOB...yet the Union gets the blame. Shame, shame, shame. Same situation in the auto industry but the lame old argument is Union's won't let management do their job. Poor management!!! Those bullies in the Union won't let them run their business. I'll bet you a new Kahr PM9 or your choice in pistols there was a 'management's right' clause in your CBA as well as that of the custodian. Management has the right to hire, fire, discipline for cause, etc...so long as they don't discriminate blah, blah, blah. Managements responsibility to establish and enforce ...not the Union. Yep, let's blame the Union.....but NEVER blame the bosses. They would get mad!!!

I could write a book on this subject and defend Union's until Ronald 'the great' Regen rose from the dead but some people never change.

Hey, how about those Kahr pistols.....I hear they never break and make a great PM45? To quote the brilliant, fair & balanced Willie O'Reilly, what say YOU?

[popgoestheweasel]

Boy, I sure messed up that multi quote thing....and here I thought I was on a roll. Oh well, I suppose I could just try again only this time, I'll get on my Union soap-box and rant. Perhaps I should just wait and allow one of the many Union supporters in this thread jump in and do it for me. Yeah!

By the way, don't forget to mention how many Union workers it takes to change a lightbulb at Boeing. You know.....1 millwright to haul the ladder, 2 electricians, 3 pipefitters, .....you get the idea.

Somebody, please remind this lazy, alcoholic Union supporter he should lay off the Jameson....at least while on KT. Ta-ta for now.

[LaP]

Sorry, but the unions are still fanning the flames and our government sits by and watches.

http://www.breitbart.tv/police-give-occupyla-carte-blanche-protesters-shut-down-downtown-during-rush-hour-without-permit-for-march/

Can you imagine if the Tea Party did this!!!!:eek:

[popgoestheweasel]

I try not to imagine anything about the tea baggers. However, I have spend a little time trying to figure out how to do the 'multi quote' thing on this site. If you read post #48 (above) closely, you can see where I mixed in some of my replies with the quote(s). I don't know how I did it??? I could do the trial by error thing but......it would probably lead to post #1,048 and I still wouldn't get it right. Anywhere on this site that gives a tutorial on multi-quoting?

[JFootin]

I try not to imagine anything about the tea baggers. However, I have spend a little time trying to figure out how to do the 'multi quote' thing on this site. If you read post #48 (above) closely, you can see where I mixed in some of my replies with the quote(s). I don't know how I did it??? I could do the trial by error thing but......it would probably lead to post #1,048 and I still wouldn't get it right. Anywhere on this site that gives a tutorial on multi-quoting?

Pop, it's easy. Hit the MQ button once on every post you want to quote, EXCEPT THE LAST ONE. On the last one, hit the Quote button. Your reply edit session will start with all of your chosen quotes in it. If you want to put comments in between quotes, do it in between the "/QUOTE]" of the quote you are commenting on and the "[QUOTE=" of the following quote.

[Bawanna]

What did he just say? Easy for you my good friend. I don't do it often enough to really remember how. I'm techno challenged.

[JFootin]

Example:

I clicked the MQ button (little button to the right of the Quote button) on Pop's post -


I try not to imagine anything about the tea baggers. However, I have spend a little time trying to figure out how to do the 'multi quote' thing on this site. If you read post #48 (above) closely, you can see where I mixed in some of my replies with the quote(s). I don't know how I did it??? I could do the trial by error thing but......it would probably lead to post #1,048 and I still wouldn't get it right. Anywhere on this site that gives a tutorial on multi-quoting?

I clicked the MQ button (little button to the right of the Quote button) on my post -


Pop, it's easy. Hit the MQ button once on every post you want to quote, EXCEPT THE LAST ONE. On the last one, hit the Quote button. Your reply edit session will start with all of your chosen quotes in it. If you want to put comments in between quotes, do it in between the ****** of the quote you are commenting on and the ****** of the following quote.

Then, I clicked the Quote button on Bawanna's post -


What did he just say? Easy for you my good friend. I don't do it often enough to really remember how. I'm techno challenged.

And I put my comments in between the multiple quotes. Ta-DA! :)

P.S. I had to edit out the quotes in my quote because it was getting confused. LOL!

[TheTman]

Tea Baggers has a sexual conotation that the Tea party finds very insulting. You can google it to see what it is. Please don't use it to reference those in the Tea Party.

[TheTman]

From Humanevents.com:

The Occupy Wall Street Manifesto


Anarchists are the handmaidens of tyranny.
by John Hayward (http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=John+Hayward)
10/06/2011

135 (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#comments)
Comments (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#comments)

Three weeks into the “Occupy Wall Street” protests, the disorganized mob of shiftless protesters is receiving fresh shock troops from Big Labor. An article at Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/todays-one-of-the-biggest-days-for-occupy-wall-street-2011-10) lists the new arrivals: “United NY, SEIU 1199, United Federation of Teachers, Working Families Party (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#)​, and MoveOn.org. The Transit Workers and AFL-CIO are also expected to participate.”
And here I thought the protesters were upset about Big Business using its clout to take advantage of people! Big Labor is the biggest Big Business of all. The SEIU and AFL-CIO are mega-corporations that spend millions purchasing political influence to sustain their “business model,” at a substantial cost to consumers and non-union job seekers.
Also, many among the first wave of protesters were aging college students whining about the high balance of their student loans. Do you suppose the kids will discuss those grievances with the United Federation of Teachers when they show up?
The protesters romantically bill themselves as anarchists, which has attracted some lovestruck admirers from the dreary conventional Left. Here’s Michael Tomasky dashing off a quick mash note in the Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/04/michael-tomasky-wall-street-protests-need-to-learn-tea-party-lessons.html):
I want to stipulate up front that I am firmly on OWS’s side. I don’t really know who its leaders are, and I don’t especially care. I don’t know its exact goals - a subject on which the movement has been roundly, and in my view pointlessly, criticized. But it is desperately needed. It needs to succeed. And I fear it won’t. To succeed, it would have to model itself on 1963, not 1968. And I’m not confident that any left-wing protest movement today can understand that.
Tomasky is worried that the Occupy Wall Street crowd will strike Middle America as a gang of scary freaks, and might turn violent, which distracts from their wonderful all-American message. He’s not sure exactly what that message is, but he loves these guys because they hate the same people he does, and they’re blocking traffic. (Hilariously, Tomasky thinks the subprime mortgage crisis was caused by “deregulation.” Barney Frank (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#)​? Chris Dodd? Never heard of ‘em!)
He doesn’t need to worry about OWS failing to be useful to doctrinaire liberals. Those union thugs are pouring into Wall Street because they understand that anarchy is the handmaiden of tyranny.
Anarchist movements are never followed by increased liberty. Even if the protesters imagine themselves to be rebels against oppression, they are always supplanted by highly organized and aggressive leftists with domination on their minds. You can watch it happen in real time on Wall Street today, as the rabble is pushed aside by a disciplined, uniformed regiment wearing SEIU T-shirts.
The first wave of OWS protesters will hardly be unwilling victims of the organized hard-Left takeover. They’ve been on the same page all along. They’ve got a website, and they eventually got around to posting a long manifesto of demands (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/good-lord-the-occupy-wall-street-imbeciles-release-their-idiotic-demands-20-minimum-wage-and-across-the-board-debt-forgiveness-for-all/) required to “end the occupation.” All of these demands require the exercise of compulsive government force on a massive scale.
Occupy Wall Street wants a “guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment,” along with a minimum wage of twenty dollars per hour. This would require the large-scale seizure of assets from working people to fund the “guaranteed living wage” of those who decide not to work. More force would be required to suppress those desperate to find gainful employment, and willing to work for less than $20 per hour, in the graveyard economy OWS seeks to create.
Of course, the protesters want “free” college educations, which would require the enslavement of either teachers, or those compelled to subsidize them. They want universal single-payer health care, insisting that “private insurers must be banned from the health care market.” Obviously, force will be required to shut down the entire private insurance industry.
They want to “begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end,” which is obviously not something the residents of industrialized nations will do willingly. Trillions are demanded for “infrastructure” and “ecological restoration.” You can’t accumulate that kind of dough by asking for voluntary donations.
Perhaps most tellingly, one of Occupy Wall Street’s demands is “immediate across-the-board debt forgiveness for all.” Everything from sovereign debt, to home mortgages and personal loans, would be wiped out instantly. They explicitly demand this on a planetary scale. They also want to “outlaw all credit reporting agencies.”
This is nothing less than the wholesale seizure of private property – everyone who holds paper would be subdued at gunpoint, allowing an all-powerful, all-knowing super-State to allocate property and financial resources according to its compassion and wisdom.
One of the most important functions of a legitimate government is the enforcement of legal contracts. Without this principle, advanced economies cannot exist at all. The demand to wipe out all debt by fiat is the perfect inversion of contract law: the government-supported theft of assets from lenders by borrowers, accomplished through the unilateral destruction of the borrowers’ side of lawful contracts they entered voluntarily. This is oppression, not “liberty.”
A fairly large number of people would have to be gunned down in cold blood to fulfill these demands. Anarchist mobs can’t grind that kind of meat – it’s a job for fascist legions. Far from agitating for any species of liberty, even the kind envisioned by the hopelessly lazy and disaffected, these protesters are demanding the final dissolution of economic liberty. Their daydreams could only be realized by totalitarian government on a towering scale, in which meaningful dissent from “compassionate” collectivism has been entirely eliminated.
Occupy Wall Street sounds stupid and crazy... but there are organizations like the AFL-CIO, and the degenerate hard-left Democrat Party, who have plenty of uses for stupid and crazy foot soldiers, once “liberal thinkers” and helpful media allies have cleaned them up a bit. The Democrat agenda is only a little less compulsive than OWS’ list of demands. As long as they can all agree on the basic principle of forcing people they dislike to give them stuff, they’ll get along swimmingly.

[popgoestheweasel]

Tea Baggers has a sexual conotation that the Tea party finds very insulting. You can google it to see what it is. Please don't use it to reference those in the Tea Party.


From Humanevents.com:
I certainly didn't know anybody found my language offensive or insulting. It was purely unintentional. But, now that I'm informed, I'll likely try using it more often.

The Occupy Wall Street Manifesto


Anarchists are the handmaidens of tyranny.
by John Hayward (http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=John+Hayward)
10/06/2011

135 (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#comments)
Comments (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#comments)

Three weeks into the “Occupy Wall Street” protests, the disorganized mob of shiftless protesters is receiving fresh shock troops from Big Labor. An article at Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/todays-one-of-the-biggest-days-for-occupy-wall-street-2011-10) lists the new arrivals: “United NY, SEIU 1199, United Federation of Teachers, Working Families Party (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#)​, and MoveOn.org. The Transit Workers and AFL-CIO are also expected to participate.”
And here I thought the protesters were upset about Big Business using its clout to take advantage of people! Big Labor is the biggest Big Business of all. The SEIU and AFL-CIO are mega-corporations that spend millions purchasing political influence to sustain their “business model,” at a substantial cost to consumers and non-union job seekers.
Also, many among the first wave of protesters were aging college students whining about the high balance of their student loans. Do you suppose the kids will discuss those grievances with the United Federation of Teachers when they show up?
The protesters romantically bill themselves as anarchists, which has attracted some lovestruck admirers from the dreary conventional Left. Here’s Michael Tomasky dashing off a quick mash note in the Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/10/04/michael-tomasky-wall-street-protests-need-to-learn-tea-party-lessons.html):
I want to stipulate up front that I am firmly on OWS’s side. I don’t really know who its leaders are, and I don’t especially care. I don’t know its exact goals - a subject on which the movement has been roundly, and in my view pointlessly, criticized. But it is desperately needed. It needs to succeed. And I fear it won’t. To succeed, it would have to model itself on 1963, not 1968. And I’m not confident that any left-wing protest movement today can understand that.
Tomasky is worried that the Occupy Wall Street crowd will strike Middle America as a gang of scary freaks, and might turn violent, which distracts from their wonderful all-American message. He’s not sure exactly what that message is, but he loves these guys because they hate the same people he does, and they’re blocking traffic. (Hilariously, Tomasky thinks the subprime mortgage crisis was caused by “deregulation.” Barney Frank (http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46658#)​? Chris Dodd? Never heard of ‘em!)
He doesn’t need to worry about OWS failing to be useful to doctrinaire liberals. Those union thugs are pouring into Wall Street because they understand that anarchy is the handmaiden of tyranny.
Anarchist movements are never followed by increased liberty. Even if the protesters imagine themselves to be rebels against oppression, they are always supplanted by highly organized and aggressive leftists with domination on their minds. You can watch it happen in real time on Wall Street today, as the rabble is pushed aside by a disciplined, uniformed regiment wearing SEIU T-shirts.
The first wave of OWS protesters will hardly be unwilling victims of the organized hard-Left takeover. They’ve been on the same page all along. They’ve got a website, and they eventually got around to posting a long manifesto of demands (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/good-lord-the-occupy-wall-street-imbeciles-release-their-idiotic-demands-20-minimum-wage-and-across-the-board-debt-forgiveness-for-all/) required to “end the occupation.” All of these demands require the exercise of compulsive government force on a massive scale.
Occupy Wall Street wants a “guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment,” along with a minimum wage of twenty dollars per hour. This would require the large-scale seizure of assets from working people to fund the “guaranteed living wage” of those who decide not to work. More force would be required to suppress those desperate to find gainful employment, and willing to work for less than $20 per hour, in the graveyard economy OWS seeks to create.
Of course, the protesters want “free” college educations, which would require the enslavement of either teachers, or those compelled to subsidize them. They want universal single-payer health care, insisting that “private insurers must be banned from the health care market.” Obviously, force will be required to shut down the entire private insurance industry.
They want to “begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end,” which is obviously not something the residents of industrialized nations will do willingly. Trillions are demanded for “infrastructure” and “ecological restoration.” You can’t accumulate that kind of dough by asking for voluntary donations.
Perhaps most tellingly, one of Occupy Wall Street’s demands is “immediate across-the-board debt forgiveness for all.” Everything from sovereign debt, to home mortgages and personal loans, would be wiped out instantly. They explicitly demand this on a planetary scale. They also want to “outlaw all credit reporting agencies.”
This is nothing less than the wholesale seizure of private property – everyone who holds paper would be subdued at gunpoint, allowing an all-powerful, all-knowing super-State to allocate property and financial resources according to its compassion and wisdom.
One of the most important functions of a legitimate government is the enforcement of legal contracts. Without this principle, advanced economies cannot exist at all. The demand to wipe out all debt by fiat is the perfect inversion of contract law: the government-supported theft of assets from lenders by borrowers, accomplished through the unilateral destruction of the borrowers’ side of lawful contracts they entered voluntarily. This is oppression, not “liberty.”
A fairly large number of people would have to be gunned down in cold blood to fulfill these demands. Anarchist mobs can’t grind that kind of meat – it’s a job for fascist legions. Far from agitating for any species of liberty, even the kind envisioned by the hopelessly lazy and disaffected, these protesters are demanding the final dissolution of economic liberty. Their daydreams could only be realized by totalitarian government on a towering scale, in which meaningful dissent from “compassionate” collectivism has been entirely eliminated.
Occupy Wall Street sounds stupid and crazy... but there are organizations like the AFL-CIO, and the degenerate hard-left Democrat Party, who have plenty of uses for stupid and crazy foot soldiers, once “liberal thinkers” and helpful media allies have cleaned them up a bit. The Democrat agenda is only a little less compulsive than OWS’ list of demands. As long as they can all agree on the basic principle of forcing people they dislike to give them stuff, they’ll get along swimmingly.

I find your humanevents post insulting. Like me, perhaps you didn't realize it...but again, like me, you certainly have every right to continue using it. Now, if 'the man' controlling this forum tells me the err of my unintended way and directs me to conduct myself differently, I'll be happy to listen. Otherwise, I'd say someone is being entirely too sensitive if not ridiculous.


Now, let's get back to what I was intending to do with this reply which is to see if the kind individual who tried to teach me something was successful. Okay, here goes.......

[popgoestheweasel]

Oh well, Jfootin....it's back to the drawing board for me. Thanks for trying to be helpful.

[Bawanna]

What just happened?

[popgoestheweasel]

I botched my test on multi-quoting, despite the colored road map given me by JFootin. Techno-challenged you say, Bawanna. I think...no, I know you've met your match.

[JFootin]

What just happened?

Now, I'm confused. :2rolleyes:

[LaP]

With all the cut/paste issues aside, Oakland and New York are burning.

[tv_racin_fan]

I guess I is just confused... story of unions going down to the OWS thing is insulting to a union supporter?

I'm guessing he doesn't understand the type or level of insult Tea Bagger is.

[Rainman48314]

I guess I is just confused... story of unions going down to the OWS thing is insulting to a union supporter?

I'm guessing he doesn't understand the type or level of insult Tea Bagger is.Around here, "thug" is the new substitute for the "N" word. Further, in every political internet discussion I have ever read, the name calling starts immediately. The bulk of it directed at Obama. The point isn't whether he deserves criticism, there's a general disrespect for the Office which weakens whatever argument you may have. Just saying.

[muggsy]

so are boardrooms & government office buildings... :p


thug

noun

a member of a former group in India that murdered and robbed in the service of Kali
a rough, brutal hoodlum, gangster, robber, etc.

Origin: Hindi ṭhag, swindler < Sans sthaga, a cheat, rogue, akin to sthagayati, (he) hides < IE base *(s)teg-, to cover > thatch (http://www.yourdictionary.com/thatch)



So you guys are saying that these people were all from India? :confused:
Name-calling aside, what was the activity by the union members (at the "Occupy _______") that warrants the description "thugs"?

So can I take it that you are a union organizer and Obama supporter who is fully behind the socialist movement? :)

[muggsy]

Well, actually I only meant that I'd quit asking for you to back up your claims of Union involvement in any criminal activity. ;)
You said it, not me! :D
I hadn't seen that particular demand. I be upset if they singled me out, too!
Here we are again. Not only are they not all even crimes, but you still can't show me any Union involvement in anything on the list at all. This exchange is becoming pointless or worse. Its already quite apparent that there are no facts available to back up your claims, and that speaks volumes. :blah:

I guess that the millions of dollars of damage done to Wisconsin's State Capital went unnoticed by you.

[Bawanna]

Anybody see this thread going anywhere productive? A show of hands please?

[mr surveyor]

I think we've all had our chance to choose our sides and locked and loaded....

nothing left now but bloodshed....

I say turn the key;)

[LaP]

It's too bad. Somehow these types of discusions have to take place. Leaving emotions out is difficult, but nothing gets resolved if it's just ignored.
I don't blame Bawanna if he shuts this thread down.... it has gotten personal and I will take responsibility for a few of my remarks.
Hopefully, we'll get to agree to disagree.

Bawanna: Thanks for letting it go this far. I appreciate it.

[rjt123]

Anybody see this thread going anywhere productive? A show of hands please?


Put a fork in it...it's done.

[popgoestheweasel]

my suggestion would be to open a new subforum for those who want to go on their political rant, post a subject that will undoubtedly head in that direction, or serve their particular political agenda(s).

seems the 'general discussion' subforum, in large part, has been kept to general gun related discussion or other non-political miscellaneous lighthearted topics...and that's why i visit. however, more and more i'm stumbling into threads with titles (perhaps interesting) that are somewhat obscure/veiled and ultimately open themselves to political rants, name calling, bashing, disparaging comments about one group or another. put these in their own cesspool for those to visit if that is their cup of 'tea'....if in fact they belong at all in a gun forum.

just my opinion.

[Bawanna]

Pop, I've had that thought as well. The RKBA area is usually ripe with emotional post and threads. Perhaps it could be incorporated under that heading.

I also agree with LaP, there's information that we might other wise not be aware of and frankly alot I'd rather not know about sometimes but you can't work at fixing stuff if you don't know it's broken either I guess.

I'm gonna pull the plug on this one, feel free to make another fresh start and hopefully it will have a more harmonious outcome.

Note this one wasn't that bad buy my spidey senses tell me it was headed for uglyville and we got enough ugly in the world already.