My perspective on some P380 problems

[dmevis]

Everyone knows that a P380 needs 250 rounds to break it in. And most everyone is impatient to get their P380 broken in ASAP. So most folks go right to the range and try to fire those 250 rounds. The result is frequently all manner of problems.

I have come to believe that it is a rare individual that can PROPERLY grip and fire a P380 for 250 rounds in one sitting. This is a great little gun, but to be honest, for mere mortals, it is tiring to shoot in any volume.

The P380 does not react well to an improper grip. If you are not very experienced with shooting high volumes of ammunition, that provide a pretty good recoil, through a very small gun, you will not be able to properly grip this gun for very long. The result is problems.

My suggestion to new gun owners is to break in your P380 thusly.

Clean it, shoot 50 rounds and go home for the day.
Clean it, shoot 50 rounds and go home for the day.
... continue until you have put 250 rounds through your P380.

When shooting 50+ rounds through my P380 I had many of the problems reported for P380's. However, when limiting my shoots to 50 rounds, I find that my P380 is very reliable. Between the cleanings and my rested condition between shoots, I love my P380. Limiting the shooting of a P380 to 50 rounds is completely reasonable for a pocket carry weapon.

[Zippo Guy]

I generally shoot 50 rounds per visit to the range with any gun I take with me. I have never had any problems with my P 380 either using this method. I ususally have a number of guns with me and shoot a box through each. It breaks things up and makes it more enjoyable, at least for me.

[OldLincoln]

The tired hands factor was a major consideration in my buying an annual membership to my local indoor range. The money is spent so it's free trips to the range as often as i like. I find that I go more often and shoot between 21 and 50 rounds.

It's like when a kid and you could get as much ice cream as you wanted only in one visit. A local ice cream shop had what they called the "Pig Trough" which was intended for at least 4 people who really like ice cream. They'd give you a prize stating "You're a Pig" if you ate it by yourself and they'd "Oink" around the table. Now days that would be politically incorrect but it was family fun then.

[TominCA]

I like the 50 rounds rule on a new p380 - even my "bad" ones would go 25 + before acting up. I polished surfaces with green glow, lubricated the devil out of it and actually studied how to hold the gun by watching wempties. It still took a long time for one of them to go 100% - There was some magic moment when that last little burr or last 1/1000 of an inch tolerance wore in. There are a few things p380 owners should look for if they are still having trouble after the "more than reasonable" breakin period:

Light strikes? - Perhaps it is too much tension on the extractor ( one of
mine had this)

Nosedive at round 3/4 (or is it 2/3?) Mag catch protruded too far into mag well and slows down follower. One of mine had this also.

Last round (only last round) stovepipes or jams horizontally. Round is being knocked out of extractor by left (looking from back) magazine lip. Could be a lot of things but it probably is the extractor cut or the ejector is too short. The easiest fix is to re-profile the left mag lip.

All of these fixes are on this forum in much better detail than I could explain.

If you live in CA the p380 is the ONLY pocket 380 besides the Sig which is bigger and heavier - so you have to work with it. In terms of construciton and size it is light years ahead of the other pocket 380's.

[KahrOwner]

I like the 50 rounds rule on a new p380 - even my "bad" ones would go 25 + before acting up. I polished surfaces with green glow, lubricated the devil out of it and actually studied how to hold the gun by watching wempties. It still took a long time for one of them to go 100% - There was some magic moment when that last little burr or last 1/1000 of an inch tolerance wore in. There are a few things p380 owners should look for if they are still having trouble after the "more than reasonable" breakin period:

Light strikes? - Perhaps it is too much tension on the extractor ( one of
mine had this)

Nosedive at round 3/4 (or is it 2/3?) Mag catch protruded too far into mag well and slows down follower. One of mine had this also.

Last round (only last round) stovepipes or jams horizontally. Round is being knocked out of extractor by left (looking from back) magazine lip. Could be a lot of things but it probably is the extractor cut or the ejector is too short. The easiest fix is to re-profile the left mag lip.

All of these fixes are on this forum in much better detail than I could explain.

If you live in CA the p380 is the ONLY pocket 380 besides the Sig which is bigger and heavier - so you have to work with it. In terms of construciton and size it is light years ahead of the other pocket 380's.

Hi Tom, I read all your P380 posts with interest.

I've pretty much given up on the Kahr repair department folks myself (as they do seem to me to be pretty clueless on the sheer number of P380 problems).

But I wanted to add that I did just file away the inside edge of the slide lock lever slightly (re-profiling it at the rear by about 1mm) as I am pretty sure that as it stood the tip of an upcoming round could actually whack it and lock the slide open with ammunition still remaining.

I'm not sure if this has resolved that problem yet but if it does I will be down to only one failure in about 40 shots! (yes, it's laughable).

But I think that the only way the P380 issues are going to be resolved is by the folks with $$$$'s invested putting their heads together. Kahr clearly doesn't care that much.

BTW, I also noticed in my own P380 inquest that the left edge of the breech area was rough and badly finished with machine tooling marks showing. When I inserted a round under the extractor (with the slide removed) it was quite sticky on the surface. I polished mine up and the round can now be extracted much more smoothly without sticking.

I am currently debating whether to buy even more .380 ammo for debugging things further as frankly I am pretty fed up with this pistol at the moment (and I have other pistols that just work and so allow me to focus on my actual shooting hobby).

Bob

[Kenjs2]

Great informative posts !

I agree with the 50 or less range idea. IMHO in a self defense situation I only have 13 rounds, why worry about 200 or more? Needing 200 or more will never happen, if it does I need something much bigger than a 380.

I clean, lube and check mine after every range trip. This includes disassembling the slide. I lube mine heavy, again IMO I don't think 13 rounds are going to foul up the action. I have noticed when I put a little extra on the slide rails just how little transfer there is onto the frame rails (wonder why not more contact?)

I have also noticed a big variation in OAL of FMJ rounds. Since I'm using Pow-R Ball or Critical Defense for my SD round I'm going to start paying more attention to the cartridge specs. (I have one round (FMJ) from my last trip that will not chamber and I've tried it 3-4 times. All the dimensions seem to be within specs but it still will not chamber)

I don't have a problem if my 380 needs special attention or needs a specific brand of ammo. ALL I want is a reliable P380 and no other!

Thanks for the insight,
Ken

[KahrOwner]

why worry about 200 or more?

Hi Ken - in a word "Murphy". If a thing CAN go wrong it will and usually at the worst possible moment.

Personally I would not risk my own life pulling out a pistol that averaged more than one failure in ~200 rounds.

You may have been carrying it for a while, a bit of dirt, water etc.. that changes everything. You need that reliability factor above all else and an emergency will happen when you least expect it.

When you pull out a self-defense pistol in a situation a) you had better be ready and willing to use it and b) it had better WORK on cue or you will find yourself in a world of sh*t.

Bob

[Kenjs2]

Hi Ken - in a word "Murphy". If a thing CAN go wrong it will and usually at the worst possible moment.

Personally I would not risk my own life pulling out a pistol that averaged more than one failure in ~200 rounds.

You may have been carrying it for a while, a bit of dirt, water etc.. that changes everything. You need that reliability factor above all else and an emergency will happen when you least expect it.

When you pull out a self-defense pistol in a situation a) you had better be ready and willing to use it and b) it had better WORK on cue or you will find yourself in a world of sh*t.

Bob

Yes sir, I agree with you completely. I hate that Murphy guy!

Maybe it would have been clearer if I had said, "200 or more rounds in one outing". I keep good records, almost obsessive, of total rounds fired, failures, cleanings, repairs/modifications etc.

I have one out off three Kahrs that I can trust to carry (right now, soon to change I hope) and that's my old MK9 and I clean it weekly.

I have no desire to get into a world of sh*t.

Ken

[JFootin]

Rohrbaugh markets a SD pistol that they SAY is not built for 1000s of rounds at the range. They say it is to be "carried often, seldom fired." Philosophy concerning these micro pocket pistols HAS to be different than for a full size service weapon. I think the 50 max in a session rule is good for break in on these tiny guns, with cleaning and lubing afterwards. But after that, shoot the SD rounds in the gun and spare mag(s) and call it a day unless you have other guns to shoot.

[KahrOwner]

Wanted to add to this thread - I have also been finding a lot of tooling "swirl" marks left inside the two grooves that the P380 slide actually rides on.

Look inside those two rails on your own slide - I'm guessing that this is how they are all being made by Kahr (I mean left completely unpolished after cutting).

Using a magnifier the inside of the grooves on my P380 slide look like the surface of a file! Circular cutter swirl marks are all left on there causing much of the slight stickiness that can be felt in the P380 slide's uneven movement.

Compare a Glock or SIG pistol to see how smoothly the slide should move and how smooth these inside rails should be (I did).

I believe that this is the cause of a lot of P380 problems that cause uneven and extra friction in the slide which can lead to stovepipes and many of the other issues reported.

I have been trying to polish the grooves on my own slide with fine paper and metal polish - when I am ready I will take my P380 to the range again and report on what happens.

My slide already moves much more smoothly - I believe this is REALLY why we have their so called break-in period. They are hoping for you to complete their unfinished polishing work with your expensive ammo.

Bob