View Full Version : P380 No Longer A Problem
Something of a Kahr addict/disciple, at least until recently. Looked forward to the P380's release, but having learned from previous experience I'm not an early adopter of new model MMAs. So, been following this gun's misfortunes waiting until it was declared ready for prime time. Decided today that just ain't gonna happen anytime soon and bought a Sig P238.
Thunder71
11-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Buddy of mine just bought one, seems to really like it.
Congrats on the purchase, anxious to hear your thoughts.
Thanks. I'll post back here after I get it to the range, hopefully next week. One of the factors in the decision is the Sig is an updated redux of the Pocketlite Mustang that was one of my long time companions.
Thunder71
11-05-2011, 06:34 PM
Odd? The Pocketlite Mustang just got re-introduced by Colt.
http://www.gunblast.com/Colt-MustangPocketLite.htm
Cool, I didn't know that. Will be interesting to follow the back story as the Sig design is a copy to the point many parts are reportedly interchangeable with the original Colt's guns. Would not have changed my purchase decision. Still have my Pocketlite and/but consider the Sig, albeit not having fired it yet, to be a significant upgrade. And two things Colt's is still missing..decent sights and all black finish option. Will be interested to learn what Colt's pricing is.
Cokeman
11-05-2011, 07:34 PM
Odd? The Pocketlite Mustang just got re-introduced by Colt.
http://www.gunblast.com/Colt-MustangPocketLite.htm
Why isn't it on their website? I've heard reports of them already being in stores.
JFootin
11-05-2011, 07:43 PM
Why isn't it on their website? I've heard reports of them already being in stores.
Their website has always seemed to not be up to date. They need a new webmaster and maybe a whole new team.
FLBri
11-06-2011, 07:11 AM
ltxi, I was of the exact same mindset with the exact same results. The advantage I had was that my wife tried a P238 and converted on the spot from her J Frame. I got to play with the P238 before pulling the trigger (on the purchase, I mean) .... which I DID.
Much different platform obviously, but I think the P238 is a great .380 handgun. A little bigger, slightly heavier, but just enough difference to go pocketed in places where the PM9 doesn't.
OldLincoln
11-06-2011, 11:51 AM
itxi, I'm glad you got your .380 even though not a Kahr, but have to chuckle a bit as Bawanna just reported today that Kahr has fixed the manufacturing problems and new P380's are coming out great. Stay tuned to see the feedback as they flow into the market. Someday if you want another Kahr it may be the one.
Yeah, I just read Bawanna's comment. Amusingly ironic timing.
Truth be told, the P238 is probably a better choice for me in .380 anyway. I'm perfectly comfortable with with 1911 style SA's having been raised on them and this was a good upgrade add to the Pocketlite that was one of my carry guns for years. Plus there's the distinct advantage of not having to buy new gun leather or additional mags.
I also bought a 340 M&P a couple of weeks ago as an upgrade to my older J-frame carry stable....lightweight and tritium front sight.
Now that I'm done with that, I can go back to buying Kahrs. Except for a 940 J-frame, all of my 9mm guns are Kahrs and I have enough of those, so it's time to get a K40 to compliment my .40 cal Glocks.
ltxi, I was of the exact same mindset with the exact same results. The advantage I had was that my wife tried a P238 and converted on the spot from her J Frame. I got to play with the P238 before pulling the trigger (on the purchase, I mean) .... which I DID.
Much different platform obviously, but I think the P238 is a great .380 handgun. A little bigger, slightly heavier, but just enough difference to go pocketed in places where the PM9 doesn't.
As noted above, I carried the LW Colt .380 for a good number of years. I'd had the same revelation I guess your wife did after decades of J-frames as deeper concealment and back-up guns. For many purposes it's just a better shooting carry gun and I'm of the often unpopular position that .380 vs std pressure .38 Special (all I'll carry in airweight snubs) is simply a toss up.
Jeff00042
11-06-2011, 05:00 PM
Old Lincold: Where is Bawanna's post about the P380 being fixed?
OldLincoln
11-06-2011, 05:28 PM
Old Lincold: Where is Bawanna's post about the P380 being fixed?
Here (http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=106727&postcount=5) next to last paragraph.
Jeff00042
11-06-2011, 06:05 PM
Old Lincoln: Thanks. I gave up on my P380. If the bugs are truly out, I'd get another.
Jeff
muggsy
11-06-2011, 06:14 PM
[QUOTE=ltxi;106671]Something of a Kahr addict/disciple, at least until recently. Looked forward to the P380's release, but having learned from previous experience I'm not an early adopter of new model MMAs. So, been following this gun's misfortunes waiting until it was declared ready for prime time. Decided today that just ain't gonna happen anytime soon and bought a Sig P238.[/QUOTE
Huston, we have a problem.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/P238upgrade.aspx
Not really...that was an early recall. As in cars, never buy first production of a new model if you can't handle an oops. And Sig fixes stuff. They also had some later mag follower issues. All long resolved. Mine's "Born On Date" is late Sep 2011 so I'm not anticipating problems.
FLBri
11-07-2011, 07:50 AM
Yeah, that's way old news. The early P238's had issues, for sure, but the later ones are resolved and reliable. That recall was in 2009.
I am also confident that Kahr will work out the P380, if they haven't already. I actually am reasonably confident that they have, and if I had a spare 600 I'd buy one just to spend some time with the comparison.
Sometimes just staying with "the one you have and know" is a path of least resistance. Not a dig on Kahr at all ... more a matter of timing.
OldLincoln
11-07-2011, 10:59 AM
It must take time for processes and machining improvements to get integrated into a full production line. I now see improvements in quality at Kahr with the CM9 more than just a less flashy PM9 but they changed a few mechanical things and it has made a big improvement. Now the 380 has reportedly been improved. The PM9 was their big winner from the start and I anticipate the mechanical changes from the CM9 moving into that product before too long.
The mag issues must be driving them nuts as it does those who have a bad one. They are likely spending a lot of time with that vendor to correct them. I do wish they would go with Check-Mate instead of whoever they have now. Check-Mate makes a lot of OEM mags and are darn good. I have them for my 1911 and while you may not think mags make a difference (if they aren't broken) but these do.
So I'll stick with Kahr and go through their growing pains. I like fiddling with guns as much as reloading which is as much as shooting, so I guess I've come to the right place. But that's not for everybody and those who go with another product are making the right decision for them. I truly wish I didn't believe it's necessary to carry and would not if that were true. However it is, so I do.
kahrlover123
11-07-2011, 03:31 PM
I had the P238 (before I even bought the P380). It was a nice little carry. The only issue I had is SA. For pocket carry, U only need when U're about 3-7 yards away. When that happens, U might not remember to flip the safety off.
And if U carry with the safety off, it "might go bang" by accident (for whatever reason).
I also own a Colt 1911 45ACP. It's a totally different game for that one (it's not a carry piece).
Bawanna
11-07-2011, 03:44 PM
My issue is more remembering to put the safety back on after shooting. I have no problem flipping them off. Add a little adrenaline flow and who knows what will happen. I practice that alot and focus on safety on.
I like the 1911, it works, I'm the weak link.
kahrlover123
11-07-2011, 03:52 PM
when time to pull it out to defend yourself within 3-5 yards, U do not have time to look at the safety switch to make sure it's on or off. Every fraction of a second will count (not mentioned that your adrenaline pump is so high that U do not even remember whether it's up or down as on :D)
JFootin
11-07-2011, 04:07 PM
For those used to carrying a SA gun, it is not a matter of looking at the safety, but an automatic swipe of the thumb while focusing on the threat.
FLBri
11-07-2011, 04:20 PM
For those used to carrying a SA gun, it is not a matter of looking at the safety, but an automatic swipe of the thumb while focusing on the threat.
That is the correct answer to the issue.
x3. For me, 50 years of developed reflex/muscle memory. I mentally classify Kahr's with their long DA trigger pull with revolvers, carry 1911s when dress permits, and have no trouble switching between the two systems. The one form factor I have some trouble with is Glock's...short pull, no safety (yeah, I know, but it's not real) which is one reason I don't normally carry mine. Although they do work well in .40 when I'm in a position to have at least a spare second or two to think...great automotive accessories for instance.
As promised...
P238 to the range using the included mag and three Colt mags, one unused with a stiff spring. About 200 rounds mixed ball first....a few FTEs in the first 50 rounds, ran fine after that. Another 150 rounds of mixed defense ammunition...Fed Classic/Hydra-Shok/Corbon+P/one 20rd box of Gold Dot I picked up at the range. Only thing it sorta didn't like was the HydraShok, no surprise, mostly in the Colt mags with their different followers. Some FTE's but also FTF's on the mag with the stiff spring.
My Colt Pocketlite, which I took along as a sanity check, ate everything without a hiccup from all four mags.....older, well used and tuned gun, so no real surprise.
Early take on my new P238 at this point....Clean, polish feed ramp and barrel hood, and repeat. If it still doesn't run 100% on HydraShok with preferred mags, that's ok...I'm moving to Gold Dot and HST as my "lifelong" supplies of HydraShok run low anyway. The trigger's a tad heavy but only an issue in that it doesn't match my other defense single actions, so it's an mm thing. The trigger creep is a different story. Can't tolerate anything other than a clean, crisp break trigger in any defense arm other than an SKS, shotgun or Glock. If it doesn't clear up, and I really don't think it will, I'll just have to tune it. Overall, I like it. Wasn't shooting for accuracy, just running it in, but it did really well. Gonna be a good addition.
Over and out.
Yeah, well....can't help it...just one more. Happy the P380 is now working out well. Also glad I bought the P238 instead. Got the trigger cleaned up and it digests Gold Dots 100%. Comfortable and very accurate gun that feels and carries like an old friend. Couldn't ask for more out of a .380.
TriggerMan
11-26-2011, 09:19 PM
Cool, I didn't know that. Will be interesting to follow the back story as the Sig design is a copy to the point many parts are reportedly interchangeable with the original Colt's guns. Would not have changed my purchase decision. Still have my Pocketlite and/but consider the Sig, albeit not having fired it yet, to be a significant upgrade. And two things Colt's is still missing..decent sights and all black finish option. Will be interested to learn what Colt's pricing is.It shoots like a dream. I added some grips to mine. I like Eagles.
TriggerMan
11-26-2011, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=ltxi;106671]Something of a Kahr addict/disciple, at least until recently. Looked forward to the P380's release, but having learned from previous experience I'm not an early adopter of new model MMAs. So, been following this gun's misfortunes waiting until it was declared ready for prime time. Decided today that just ain't gonna happen anytime soon and bought a Sig P238.[/QUOTE
Huston, we have a problem.
http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/P238upgrade.aspx You failed to notice this applies to production runs prior to July 2009.
TriggerMan
11-26-2011, 09:30 PM
when time to pull it out to defend yourself within 3-5 yards, U do not have time to look at the safety switch to make sure it's on or off. Every fraction of a second will count (not mentioned that your adrenaline pump is so high that U do not even remember whether it's up or down as on :D)You always train using it. It is dangerous to think you can carry with a safety off. 1. The trigger is short and light AND you ought to have a round chambered. 2. It could accidentally get set to on and if you assume it's always set to off, you will lose your life as you try to figure out what's wrong with your gun. Train to always sweep it off. Ingrain that muscle memory. If you ever carry a DAO pistol, like a Kahr, sweeping a non-existent safety is not going to present a problem or delay you.
TriggerMan
11-26-2011, 09:36 PM
Not really...that was an early recall. As in cars, never buy first production of a new model if you can't handle an oops. And Sig fixes stuff. They also had some later mag follower issues. All long resolved. Mine's "Born On Date" is late Sep 2011 so I'm not anticipating problems.My P238 was born March 2011. It had the gen 2 slide, the gen 2 recoil system and gen 3 mags, in short, ALL the fixes. It need a feedramp polish which SIg did at their expense, incl shipping.
FLBri
11-27-2011, 06:44 AM
Following a suggestion from an obscure post in another forum I read months ago (and I believe it was an old post at that time) I did a P238 experiment. The recoil spring in that little pistol seems light and sluggish to me and sometimes the slide needs a tap to finish returning to battery. So .....
I bought a set (inner/outer) of P380 recoil springs and put them on the P238 guide rod. The springs would go solid before slide lock so I clipped exactly two coils off of both and re installed. The gun chambers perfectly and I like the crisper slide action. The range session went perfectly without any malfunctions whatsoever. A $9 experiment and I am inclined to leave it this way.
Thanks much for the information. I had the same thought about the light recoil spring and lazy slide action. My Mustang is a lot more tight and crisp. But the gun seems to function well as is. Figured I'd experiment with it when I had some time. Was going to use Colt springs (Wolff has nothing for this gun yet) but the tip on the P380 parts is appreciated.
FLBri
11-28-2011, 07:36 AM
Thanks much for the information. I had the same thought about the light recoil spring and lazy slide action. My Mustang is a lot more tight and crisp. But the gun seems to function well as is. Figured I'd experiment with it when I had some time. Was going to use Colt springs (Wolff has nothing for this gun yet) but the tip on the P380 parts is appreciated.
you bet ....
I have also heard fairly often about people using Mustang springs in the P238. If you have a Mustang you might want to give that a try also.
you bet ....
I have also heard fairly often about people using Mustang springs in the P238. If you have a Mustang you might want to give that a try also.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious....I mean that sincerely. Perhaps I''ll just try swapping in the Mustang's recoil assembly and see if it works. I'm an idiot.
kahrlover123
11-30-2011, 06:48 AM
You always train using it. It is dangerous to think you can carry with a safety off. 1. The trigger is short and light AND you ought to have a round chambered. 2. It could accidentally get set to on and if you assume it's always set to off, you will lose your life as you try to figure out what's wrong with your gun. Train to always sweep it off. Ingrain that muscle memory. If you ever carry a DAO pistol, like a Kahr, sweeping a non-existent safety is not going to present a problem or delay you.
This is the main reason I prefer DA over SA. I don't have to worry about if the safety switch is ON or OFF when the time comes.
Currently I carry the PM9. It's not that much bigger than the P238 and it has more stopping power :)
I used to have and carry the P380 (worked flawlessly) but I decided to upgrade the stopping power for defense ;)
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