Kahrtalk is very tolerant

[Russ]

I want to commend Bawanna for allowing a former member to vent earlier today on Kahrtalk. I hope if Allglock is still checking in that your next gun purchase will bring you much happiness. Happy trails. Russ

[beatlesfan]

I agree. Most other mods on most other forums would have deleted that post and banned him. I'd also like to commend Bawanna. Freedom of speech is a great thing. It's sad how the only place in America that you don't have freedom of speech is the internet, which should be the most free of all.

Sent from Tapatalk

[TheTman]

I didn't get that at all, I guess he was upset because the letting wasn't crisp enough for him, but the guns functioned 100 percent? If you take a magnifying glass to any gun, I don't care who makes it, you'll find imperfections in the lettering. I sure wouldn't sell a well functioning gun because the lettering was a bit messed up. I doubt if anyone but him would have ever noticed. Kudos to Bawanna at letting him rant, some would have shut him down at the mere suggestion the subject of the forum wasn't perfect. Someone in PA now has probably has a nice set of PM series fully functional broke in guns. Which I could get lucky like that.

[OldLincoln]

Don't know, but perhaps AllGlock is an appropriate moniker for him. I like Glocks, but also many other brands, but I wouldn't buy anything expecting perfection. I've spent time in the Dan Wesson forum and a few other high end ($2500+) brands and have seen issues. Sometimes you have to catch them quick as the poster must have changed their mind and deleted them. :) But even my "perfect" PM9 wasn't "perfect" until I made it so. I say it never malfunctioned because it didn't but I made it a better gun.

[Bawanna]

This is a perfect time to give my take on how threads that involve complaints or poor quality of Kahr products and others as well are addressed.

Johnh and Kahr by association have no problem with open honest constructive criticism. I believe the folks at Kahr do hear of the things brought up on this forum.

The key is open, honest and truthful complaints. A few of the recent complaints, well the chain of events and the repair process etc were stretched a little bit. One was a bald faced lie. I know this to be true. Still we let it go.
As has been brought up before, many times when there's a complaint they get a lot of visits and a lot of post. That's because we are trying to help the guy or gal get their gun running. Many times it's the shooter and not the gun. That's what we do here is help each other. We're trying to help the new owner work the kinks out. We're not here to defend kahr or make excuses, that's way above our pay grade. Kahr doesn't need our defense.

Occasionally we get a person with a burr under their saddle and nothing in the whole wide world is gonna make em feel better. Usually they don't last long. And that ladies and gentlemen is a good thing.

allglock, in case you visit, this last statement is not directly aimed at you but just a general observation.

BUT while these folks are here, they are giving Kahr and Kahrtalk a black eye. Again if it's a legitimate constructive criticism, maybe we deserve it. If Kahr goofed (and it happens to everyone) they will make it right.
In case you missed that last part, it was THEY WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!

I don't drink Kahr kool aid. I receive no compensation from Kahr or JohnH and what I get from my job my wife takes before I even see it but that's another story. BUT anyone who shouts from the roof top that Kahr doesn't care, that they put out a POS gun, or have poor customer service I cry Bullshit! (that's BS in case the censor gets me).

I guess I felt the need to climb the ladder to this tall soap box because I've really and truely had a belly full of complaining and whining. Some I'm sure is legit and I feel the pain for those folks, others I know is just mud slinging.

Incidently I have it on good authority that even the 380's coming off the line now are A ok. A member here had a chance to shoot a brand new one with no prep whatsover and it ran flawlessly, was accurate as could be and had no issues. I think they got it figured out. I have little use for anything 380 but when my marble sack allows I might just buy one myself.

Incidently in case I haven't said it lately, I love this place. We got a whole bunch of really good folks here.

[Barth]

And Bawanna,
You are one of the good folks that make sure it stays that way.
Be very sure we all apreciate everything you do.
I know I do.

Barth

[CharlieW]

+1 !!

[JFootin]

+2 5/8 !!

[sierrajb]

+++infinity!

As a newbie to guns, concealed carry, and Kahrtalk, I owe this forum so much in return for sharing their wisdom, patience, kindness, and understanding. Men like Bawanna are worth their weight in gold, and this forum is packed with that caliber of men! Those who have posted earlier in this post are to name a few!

Thanks, Bawanna, Kahr, and everyone at Kahrtalk. You had me at "welcome."

[Rainman48314]

My impression of this forum is that it is much more civil and therefore friendly than most. It probably has fewer members than the big name forums but that allows for a greater sense of community. We get to know each other better as people. I even suspect there are a lot of active members and lurkers who don't own Kahrs but enjoy this forum. I know that if I ever lost or sold my PM9, I would still stop in regularly.

[DPGreen]

Well, I am brand new to Kahr and this forum (about a week). All I can say is that I own a lot of different types of handguns (Sig, Bersa, Walther, and more) and frequent a lot of forums. This seems to be a VERY objective forum... people are willing to openly discuss problems and that is what makes it helpful. I appreciate good moderators who know how to allow honest discussion of issues but keep out the personal attacks and trashing the entire company based on one bad experience. In some ways it helps to verify the reality of all the good things people say (i.e. that the forum is not "rigged") by allowing the dissent. I personally have been impressed with what I have read about the company making things right when customers are not happy. But I do wish they would blacken the magazines from the factory :)

[O'Dell]

absolute proof that this forum is tolerant - they tolerate me,..........more or less.

[QuercusMax]

My impression of this forum is that it is much more civil and therefore friendly than most. It probably has fewer members than the big name forums but that allows for a greater sense of community. We get to know each other better as people. I even suspect there are a lot of active members and lurkers who don't own Kahrs but enjoy this forum. I know that if I ever lost or sold my PM9, I would still stop in regularly.

I think this is a very good description of the difference between KahrTalk and the other boards.

The "bigger" boards that I also visit from time to time seem so big and impersonal that one feels lost in the crowd. Most of them have so many threads and so many members that very little good discussion develops. I notice many "threads" that aren't threads at all - just a single post with no response, or a few lame responses from someone who doesn't care or doesn't know.

I came to KahrTalk earlier this year when I had gotten my first Kahr and was having some problems adjusting to it. People gave me good advice, so I have continued to stick around even though my lone Kahr (so far - that might change as I work my way through my wish list) is still outnumbered by Colts, Berettas, and others. Much of the discussion here about other Kahr models and off-topic items is not always of immediate interest to me, but every so often a useful or interesting tidbit shows up that keeps my interest going.

And who knows, I might need to double the size of my Kahr arsenal before long, and all that discussion of "other" Kahr models might suddenly become very relevant. Plus it's just fun to talk about guns.

[kramm]

I like this forum. Bawanna does a great job as moderator.
I belong to a few other forums and they are fine too. This one is different because of the people who run it and the members on it.

[ripley16]

Unless I mssed something, Allglock kept his comments civil, factual and on topic. Shouldn't that be the acceptable norm? Whether he's happy with the customer service recieved or not is truely a legitamate topic on a gun forum. I applaud tolerance, especially when the gun maker in question is footing the bill, but I have to say, I've seen much more crude, harsh and unfounded complaint on other forums, also without censorship.

Allglock's temper seemed quite mild and mannered, at least IMO.

[Russ]

Unless I mssed something, Allglock kept his comments civil, factual and on topic. Shouldn't that be the acceptable norm? Whether he's happy with the customer service recieved or not is truely a legitamate topic on a gun forum. I applaud tolerance, especially when the gun maker in question is footing the bill, but I have to say, I've seen much more crude, harsh and unfounded complaint on other forums, also without censorship.

Allglock's temper seemed quite mild and mannered, at least IMO.

"I applaud tolerance, especially when the gun maker in question is footing the bill,..."

I recently read an article where a doctor was ban from certain McDonalds becasue she took fluid samples from a playland and scientififically documented the unsafe levels of bacteria and posted those results. Instead of thanking the woman and working to correct the problem they give her the attorney letter.

We read all the time about corporate coverups, paying people off to shut up etc. I have nothing but good things to say about Rich in customer service and Doug Williams one of the big cheese at Kahr. They could have blown me off or directed the blame to me the operator when my night sight kept breaking off my CM9 but instead they rolled up their sleaves and devoted more resources into the problem than I paid for the firearm. In the end they gave me a very fair option to have the gun replaced or have my money refunded when the issue was not resolved. Honestly, in todays corporate world I have never been treated so well when I had a problem with their product. The only other company that even came close to excellent customer service in my lifetime when I had an issue was Dyson vacuums and guess what I just purchased a second Dyson. You bet their customer service helped me justify the $520 purchase. (I know I could have bought a nice gun but good vacuums are important for my wife)

Thanks Kahr

Russ

[Sparks1957]

I, too, appreciate the fact that this forum is very tolerant. I've watched other folks getted ripped apart and banned on other forums for expressing any opinions or political beliefs that fell outside the moderators' own views.

Kahr should appreciate hearing about legitimate complaints about their products, I would think. Every manufacturer has its problems; the question is how do they handle them. If they make it right, all is well.

Thanks for all you do here, Bawanna.

[Bawanna]

Unless I mssed something, Allglock kept his comments civil, factual and on topic. Shouldn't that be the acceptable norm? Whether he's happy with the customer service recieved or not is truely a legitamate topic on a gun forum. I applaud tolerance, especially when the gun maker in question is footing the bill, but I have to say, I've seen much more crude, harsh and unfounded complaint on other forums, also without censorship.

Allglock's temper seemed quite mild and mannered, at least IMO.

I think this is the whole point of this thread ripley, not started by me incidently. allglock has been allowed to speak his piece however he wished. Long as he's civil about it, and your right he's been more civil than a few others here. He's not punished or reprimanded in any way. He chose to sell his Kahrs, and say adios to Kahrs and us here at Kahrtalk. His decision to make not ours. No one has sent him any kind of reprimand or notice of any kind.
If a person wants to be a thorn in a companies side, their own forum probably isn't the most effective place to do it.
In this particular incidence I truely believe it was over exagerated but again it's his choice to make.

[Bawanna]

I, too, appreciate the fact that this forum is very tolerant. I've watched other folks getted ripped apart and banned on other forums for expressing any opinions or political beliefs that fell outside the moderators' own views.

Kahr should appreciate hearing about legitimate complaints about their products, I would think. Every manufacturer has its problems; the question is how do they handle them. If they make it right, all is well.

Thanks for all you do here, Bawanna.

Thanks much Sparks and everyone for the kind words. I have to once again share the praise with Johnh and JustinN. These guys are the heart and sole of Kahrtalk and know how to keep it working and doing what it does.
I'm just a player, a very happy player. And I'm very happy that they let me be here and do what I do.
When I was first approached about this mod thing I told him I wasn't sure I could change over night and become politically correct and change my ways to the ways of goodness and right as opposed to the marginal and stepping on the line. I was actually stressed at first, afraid to screw up or make a mistake. Internet is really really big, but it's gotten alot easier and I think things have gotten alot smoother too. We had a few rough periods, on line fisticuffs, disagreements etc. I think that actually was one of the triggers that got me a mod spot. I was fighting with a guy. He lost and got banned I got a job. He deserved to lose, I have his scalp on my wall.
John assured me, just do what I been doing and all would be fine.
I obviously love hanging out here, I check it before my emails, heck it's first thing in the morning here and I got coffee and Kahrtalk for 45 minutes so far. Gotta a gunshow today, very little funds but fun to look anyhow.
Anyone need anything, I'll pick it up.

[OldLincoln]

Very well said Master-B!! You must have had some good stuff in your coffee this morning. And as a internet forum user all the way back when Al Gore was in short pants I can agree that this is the most civil place I've been. Not sanitary clean without personality (heaven knows!) but more dare I say Libertarian with each of us policing our own actions with little official involvement required. Some of the ladies may blush now and then but that's puts a bit of color in their cheeks and my wife says that's a good thing.

[ripley16]

I think this is the whole point of this thread ripley, not started by me incidently. allglock has been allowed to speak his piece however he wished. Long as he's civil about it, and your right he's been more civil than a few others here. He's not punished or reprimanded in any way. He chose to sell his Kahrs, and say adios to Kahrs and us here at Kahrtalk. His decision to make not ours. No one has sent him any kind of reprimand or notice of any kind.
If a person wants to be a thorn in a companies side, their own forum probably isn't the most effective place to do it.
In this particular incidence I truely believe it was over exagerated but again it's his choice to make.

I guess I was wondering out loud, so to speak, the question; what constituted the need for tolerance. I saw no infraction worthy of tolerance. All gun forums have negative reports about most every gun made. Tolerance to me means allowing something to remain or continue in discussion that most of us wouldn't tolerate normally. Maybe I'm reading too much into the thread.

It's a good site, easy to use and managed well, full of good info. Not much more to be desired.:cool:

[johnh]

Thank you Bawanna for bringing this up, and for your very kind words. The folks at Kahr have been very patient on several member rants that were presented in a very one-sided manner. At least one of the members here who ranted at having multiple issues with his pistol was omitting that the time frame for two service calls was years, not months, and the response from Kahr being quite thorough each time they were contacted. Similarly, the complaint that Kahr had not answered communication did not pan out on their end as they had not received any phone communications from the member on the most recent issue. I don't think that expecting companies to provide detailed, end-user support via email is entirely realistic. If a customer has a non-working product, they need to call vendors. It is the only way that the vendor can have a timely, quality, two-way communication about the issue and work out a good resolution. Email should be reserved for product questions, minor issues, etc. When something does not work, escalate to voice calls.

From the beginning of this forum, Kahr has been very supportive of my efforts and has encouraged me to promote an honest environment in discussing their products. They care about quality, and feel that the quality of the product can withstand criticism. It also gives them a chance to listen to customers on a range of issues. Yes they do keep tabs on the forum, and I let them know when I feel something needs to be brought to their attention. I have worked with a number of vendors on forums, and can tell you that Kahr is unusual in their willingness to be the target of criticism in such a public venue. Other vendors either asked for constant censorship, or bailed after the heat was too much. No such issues at all with the folks at Kahr.

Again, many thanks to Bawanna for his words of encouragement!

[TheTman]

You do great things too JohnH. Bawanna credits you and Kahr a great deal with the way the forum runs so well. I think you have to let the customers voice their complaints, but we don't need someone going overboard over something that would probably never be noticed, nor affect the operation of his pistol.
Thanks for all that you and Kahr and Bawanna do, you make a great team.

[JFootin]

You do great things too JohnH. Bawanna credits you and Kahr a great deal with the way the forum runs so well. I think you have to let the customers voice their complaints, but we don't need someone going overboard over something that would probably never be noticed, nor affect the operation of his pistol.
Thanks for all that you and Kahr and Bawanna do, you make a great team.

Yeah, thanks JohnH, Bawanna and JustinN! This forum is a special and unique place. I get tired of someone going on and on and ON about something so minor that it cannot even be seen in his photos. But we put up with them. I really got teed off the other day, though, at a guy who, after the sympathetic replies started to dwindle on his long thread, started to post the exact same whine in everyone else's threads regarding P380s, even if they were happy owners asking about holsters or something. I told him to stop pooping all over everyone else's threads. Must have shamed him because he stopped doing it. LOL! I think that is crossing the line, though, when someone starts dropping rat poison in everyone else's dish. It should be a rule that whiners keep their whining to their own threads and not try to impose their misery on everyone else - unsolicited!

[yqtszhj]

Thanks for Kahrtalk supporting Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, freedom of speech, and oh yeah, the second amendment.

[OldLincoln]

Gosh, all this makes me want to put my Kahr cap on my head. Oh, yeah, forgot I don't have a Kahr hat! But if I did......

[Bawanna]

Gosh, all this makes me want to put my Kahr cap on my head. Oh, yeah, forgot I don't have a Kahr hat! But if I did......

I have a spare, it'll be in the mail tomorrow Old Lincoln. I didn't know you didn't have one. I'm not turning into a democrat here or anything but I got one I only use for Sunday go to meetin so you can have the spare.

For everyone else I wish I had a bunch but I only got the one extra so I'm sorry.

[O'Dell]

Thanks John and Bawanna and everyone else for your apt comments. I suppose I'm one of the fortunate majority that has never had a problem with any of my kahrs, operator's lack of shooting skills excepted. Should it ever happen, I have absolute confidence that Kahr will make it right. I also know who to ask on the forum for help, should I screw up. It happens more often than I like to admit. Thanks again, guys, for being here.

Gosh, Lincoln, I was just going to give you the link to the Kahr store, but once again I get upstaged by Bawanna.

[Sparks1957]

Gosh, all this makes me want to put my Kahr cap on my head.

I've been wearing one of mine all day! :)

My CW9 has been absolutely flawless so far, about 500 rounds downrange since I bought it in August... I'll buy another Kahr one day, after I take care of of a few other "needs" and "wants"

[OldLincoln]

I have a spare, it'll be in the mail tomorrow Old Lincoln. I didn't know you didn't have one. I'm not turning into a democrat here or anything but I got one I only use for Sunday go to meetin so you can have the spare.

For everyone else I wish I had a bunch but I only got the one extra so I'm sorry.
Aw shucks, Mr. B, you don't have to do that. Truth is I don't wear hats unless it's raining. May wear a scarf around my neck this winter tho. It's pretty bad when your neck gets stuff but your .... doesn't. I supose that should go in the "You know you're an old fart when..." thread.

[Bawanna]

Aw shucks, Mr. B, you don't have to do that. Truth is I don't wear hats unless it's raining. May wear a scarf around my neck this winter tho. It's pretty bad when your neck gets stuff but your .... doesn't. I supose that should go in the "You know you're an old fart when..." thread.

It's already in the box. Wear it when it rains, it'll look good on the dresser. I don't think Kahr has scarfs, I'll check with my people and put that on the to do list. Have embroidery machine won't travel.

I know about the stiff neck thing. Sometimes ponder raising the work bench but then the shoulders *****. Do I want some cheese to go with my whine. No thanks, don't do dairy. Maybe just a splash of scotch though.

[WMD]

Great post Bawanna! I am just now checking the forum and read your post. Wow! You are very articulate. I guess that is why you make the big bucks as mod on this forum! :D I could never do what you do. My patience is too short! I must admi however, this is the best forum I have ever seen. I am on a few others (not gun related) but all based upon a given product that everyone shares interest in. None of the others compare to this. I am (was) also on Glocktalk but I do not need to say anymore about that forum. It is like night and day.

I think JohnH, JustinN and Bawanna are doing a terrific job managing this forum. But most importantly, I think we have a really great group of members as well. With the exception of a few, the members here provide good usefull information and some great humor I really enjoy participating in this forum.

I have not had any bad experiences with my PM9. so have never had any issues to report. Actually, the Kahr pistols I have fired have all worked quite well. The "operator" (aka me) has had more issues then the pistols! :D

Oh well...., enough of my rant! Good post Bawanna. Maybe JohnH will give you a raise! ;) BTW, where's Jocko? I am surprised we have not heard form him!

[Ubaldo99]

Well said, Mr.B! Dont know why you spend so much time at the kiddie table when you obviously have the clout, wit, and wisdom to reign supreme at the adult table!

[Bawanna]

Thanks again guys. I like the kiddie table myself, I don't have to pretend to act my age there, actually my wife says I never act my age so guess it don't matter.

Jocko is in Germany for I believe 15 days he said. I suspect he'll be back shortly. Can't remember exactly when he left but I believe it was last Sunday. Couple weeks without threat of a horse head kind of makes me drop my guard. I best stay on my toes.

[mr surveyor]

did jocko put floaties on the harley?

[WMD]

did jocko put floaties on the harley?

Good one! hahahahaha! :D

[deanp1964]

This is a perfect time to give my take on how threads that involve complaints or poor quality of Kahr products and others as well are addressed.

Johnh and Kahr by association have no problem with open honest constructive criticism. I believe the folks at Kahr do hear of the things brought up on this forum.

The key is open, honest and truthful complaints. A few of the recent complaints, well the chain of events and the repair process etc were stretched a little bit. One was a bald faced lie. I know this to be true. Still we let it go.
As has been brought up before, many times when there's a complaint they get a lot of visits and a lot of post. That's because we are trying to help the guy or gal get their gun running. Many times it's the shooter and not the gun. That's what we do here is help each other. We're trying to help the new owner work the kinks out. We're not here to defend kahr or make excuses, that's way above our pay grade. Kahr doesn't need our defense.

Occasionally we get a person with a burr under their saddle and nothing in the whole wide world is gonna make em feel better. Usually they don't last long. And that ladies and gentlemen is a good thing.

allglock, in case you visit, this last statement is not directly aimed at you but just a general observation.

BUT while these folks are here, they are giving Kahr and Kahrtalk a black eye. Again if it's a legitimate constructive criticism, maybe we deserve it. If Kahr goofed (and it happens to everyone) they will make it right.
In case you missed that last part, it was THEY WILL MAKE IT RIGHT!

I don't drink Kahr kool aid. I receive no compensation from Kahr or JohnH and what I get from my job my wife takes before I even see it but that's another story. BUT anyone who shouts from the roof top that Kahr doesn't care, that they put out a POS gun, or have poor customer service I cry Bullshit! (that's BS in case the censor gets me).

I guess I felt the need to climb the ladder to this tall soap box because I've really and truely had a belly full of complaining and whining. Some I'm sure is legit and I feel the pain for those folks, others I know is just mud slinging.

Incidently I have it on good authority that even the 380's coming off the line now are A ok. A member here had a chance to shoot a brand new one with no prep whatsover and it ran flawlessly, was accurate as could be and had no issues. I think they got it figured out. I have little use for anything 380 but when my marble sack allows I might just buy one myself.

Incidently in case I haven't said it lately, I love this place. We got a whole bunch of really good folks here.

this is a good thread with some great posts! I have really benefitted a lot from this forum in only a few days time - and ruffled some feathers I'm afraid with some criticisim of Kahr in respect to one of my guns - but I intend to stay around, and it looks like Kahr is doing what they can to address all of my concerns, with favorable results I'll add. I can't wait (and I will) to report on flawless performance of my PM45 to match that of my PM9 (which I've stated over and over again, has performed flawlessly).

The bottom line is that the griping, and even the criticism hasn't helped me nearly as much as some of the technical ideas and mods that I found in the Tech section. But the opportunity to air some of my disappointments with a group of individuals who also own Kahrs, if not the same model, has helped me see that my problems are not likely to be permanent problems, and that solutions do exist and Kahr is willing and able to put them into action.

These guns are the best carry semi-autos that I've ever found, period. My only remaining issue is the PM45 magazines which seem to have suffered fatigue cracks after about 350 rounds. Today Jay at Kahr emailed me that replacements will be sent out to me within 48 hours of Kahr's receipt of the defective mags. In the meantime, I have 3 1911 magazines that cycle rounds into the chamber just fine - so I'm able to carry the PM45. (the mag I'm using is a magazine from a Para-Carry C6.45 that I sold. It only sticks out a little more than the factory mag as it holds one more round.

Thanks Bawanna and others for your contributions to this forum.

[Ubaldo99]

Well said, DeanP1964...