Hornady, what's your opinion/support?

[MO_Soldier]

I'm a big Hornady guy. I love their ever-changing ballistics research and production. I feel that I can trust, that Hornady is on the leading edge of advanced scientific research, and if I have their best ammo, I have the best mankind has to offer.

I'm taking opposing and supporting opinions in this thread for 2 things.
1) Pro Hornady and why? OR Why aren't you? (and make these reasons good, because Hornady gives solid evidence as to their reliable penetration, reliability, and overall terminal ballistic performance in ballistic jells with all sorts of barriers in front of them.)

2) For those that are Pro Hornady, they are currently offering 3 types of handgun personal defense ammunition, including a new release.
TAP FPD - http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Luger-147-HP-XTP-FPD/
Critical Defense - http://www.hornady.com/store/9mm-Luger-115-gr-Critical-Defense/
and the new Critical Duty - http://www.hornady.com/store/9MM-135-gr-FlexLock-Critical-DUTY/
What are your takes on these different loads? I can't find any research that can tell me the difference between these loads.

[Bill K]

I now winter carry CD in my .380. I tried them when they first became available and had no issues with them fired from my P3AT. After independent tests became available I became convinced that CD would be a particularly good choice for winter .380 carry. For summer carry I believe that there are several HP offerings that will perform better not having to go through heavier winter clothing so that clogging is not likely an issue.

[Thunder71]

Hornady is on the bottom of my list, any ammo company that produces Zombie Defense ammo is a joke in my opinion.

And Critical Defense? As opposed to what? Non critical defense?

Great at marketing for 12 year olds, I'll stick to others for my personal protection.

And yes, I'm serious... at first I thought it was a Halloween prank - but it's real.

http://hornady.com/assets/images/promos/zombie/zombie-package-photo.jpg

[MO_Soldier]

Hornady is on the bottom of my list, any ammo company that produces Zombie Defense ammo is a joke in my opinion.

And Critical Defense? As opposed to what? Non critical defense?

Great at marketing for 12 year olds, I'll stick to others for my personal protection.

And yes, I'm serious... at first I thought it was a Halloween prank - but it's real.

http://hornady.com/assets/images/promos/zombie/zombie-package-photo.jpg

I've seen a lot of your posts Thunder and respect what you say a lot. That's why I was surprised to be laughing at your reply. (Not you, just your reply. It's funny, no disrespect intended.)
I too laughed at their Zombie-killers, but took is less seriously. I'm looking more impartially at terminal ballistic results, and I have yet to come across someone producing a non-expanding Hornady round...through ANY barrier/matter.

[MO_Soldier]

I now winter carry CD in my .380. I tried them when they first became available and had no issues with them fired from my P3AT. After independent tests became available I became convinced that CD would be a particularly good choice for winter .380 carry. For summer carry I believe that there are several HP offerings that will perform better not having to go through heavier winter clothing so that clogging is not likely an issue.

Remember, Hornady's FTX technology provides reliable expansion through barriers as well as thick clothing. I think I'll be carrying it 365. They're really pushing clothing penetration on their CDefense line, whereas they're marketing the Critical Duty line to be more of barrier penetraters from what I can tell.

[Bill K]

Remember, Hornady's FTX technology provides reliable expansion through barriers as well as thick clothing. I think I'll be carrying it 365. They're really pushing clothing penetration on their CDefense line, whereas they're marketing the Critical Duty line to be more of barrier penetraters from what I can tell.

Oops! I see I need to be more careful. Typing CD now can mean CDefense or CDuty. I'm using CDefense in my .380. This post is the first I've learned about CDuty.

[Charlie98]

Say whay you want about the Zombie ammo, get past the silly sophmoric box and look at the ammo within. I'm tired of the Zombie thing, too, but you have to laugh at it. Call it advertising innovation. And, as far as the name (Critical... whatever) they have to keep up with all the other ammo makers and their clever names. (Anyone remember Black Talon? HydroShock? Ranger? Golden Saber? ...the list of melodramatic names goes on.)

I did fire 20 rounds of the TAP 147grn 9mm in my new CW9 yesterday, I put 4 of 5 rounds into one hole at 15'. No big muzzle flash or heavy recoil... it was sweet shooting stuff.

Hornady is probably putting as much R&D into their defense ammo as everyone else is (Speer, Winchester, Federal...) so just pick a name you like or the ammo your pistol likes best. I like heavy bullets, and the poly tip HP's... so I'll probably wind up with the 135grn Flex-Lock Critical Duty.

[MO_Soldier]

Oops! I see I need to be more careful. Typing CD now can mean CDefense or CDuty. I'm using CDefense in my .380. This post is the first I've learned about CDuty.

As far as I know, CDuty has just been released. I carry CDefense in my PM9 right now, it feeds and shoots very well but since I never know the damage the bullet causes, I research heavily into terminal ballistics. The arrival of CDuty gives me the heavier 135gr PLUS a +P option. It peaks my interest because I think it will give me the clothing penetration AND more barrier penetration than the CDefense does. Plus, more mass means more inertia, which translates to for ft/lbs of force! SWEEET


Say whay you want about the Zombie ammo, get past the silly sophmoric box and look at the ammo within. I'm tired of the Zombie thing, too, but you have to laugh at it. Call it advertising innovation. And, as far as the name (Critical... whatever) they have to keep up with all the other ammo makers and their clever names. (Anyone remember Black Talon? HydroShock? Ranger? Golden Saber? ...the list of melodramatic names goes on.)

I did fire 20 rounds of the TAP 147grn 9mm in my new CW9 yesterday, I put 4 of 5 rounds into one hole at 15'. No big muzzle flash or heavy recoil... it was sweet shooting stuff.

Hornady is probably putting as much R&D into their defense ammo as everyone else is (Speer, Winchester, Federal...) so just pick a name you like or the ammo your pistol likes best. I like heavy bullets, and the poly tip HP's... so I'll probably wind up with the 135grn Flex-Lock Critical Duty.

Well said! As for me, the less recoil and muzzle flash the better. But I would give up some recoil for better terminal ballistics. I myself am going to undergo some personal ballistic testing with some of these rounds with water jugs. Apparently it's a cost-effective way of getting similar bullet expansion while stopping your rounds so they're recoverable. This will also give me the opportunity to feel how they shoot too!

[LaP]

Hornady shoots well out of my CW9, M&P 9 compact, and S&W 642.

Will it perform as advertised? I don't know... I've never been in a defensive shooting. Do I load my handguns with it? Yes.

[stumprat]

Hornady is on the bottom of my list, any ammo company that produces Zombie Defense ammo is a joke in my opinion.

And Critical Defense? As opposed to what? Non critical defense?

Great at marketing for 12 year olds, I'll stick to others for my personal protection.

And yes, I'm serious... at first I thought it was a Halloween prank - but it's real.

http://hornady.com/assets/images/promos/zombie/zombie-package-photo.jpg


http://img.tapatalk.com/47251690-e791-d97d.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[LaP]

Stumprat:
Couldn't she just outrun her friend? No need for tripping. Manners, manners now.;)

[Mr. S]

I have used the TAP and TAP-FPD(they both use the XTP bullet) and found both rounds to be very accurate.
The negatives for me.
I don't believe they expand as well as other hollowpints
The cost, specifically only being available in 25 or 20 round boxes round boxes is a deal breaker for me.

Critical Defense well let me say my opinion of them is well known.
I don't like them.
Here are my reasons.
They perform(as advertised) under limited circumstances which is my main issue.If you are going to be in a self defense situation you will not be able to set the circumstances.I feel you are limiting yourself and your chance of survival by using them.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/2006/04/main.htm
They are also not available in 50 round boxes so the price is still an issue(I wouldn't use them if they were anyway).

The Critical Duty line looks interesting, almost as if they realize the Critical Defense was not up to standards.The performance looks good.I would like to see some idependent testing done eventually.
I wonder if it will be available in 50 round LE type boxes?
Perhaps it is a step in the right direction.

[Thunder71]

Say whay you want about the Zombie ammo, get past the silly sophmoric box and look at the ammo within.

Why? They clearly state it's for use on real zombies only... friggin' joke and waste of time and money on their part and anyone who looks into that ammo.

Sorry, I just don't put a lot of stake in a company that goes out of its way to come up with something like this, and in the next sentence state how great their new 'Critical XXXX' ammo is.

But it does have neat green filling. :rolleyes:

[Knight92]

I would have to agree with the statement in the link you posted Mr. S, If I have to shoot threw a windshield or a trunk then I am probably going to jail. Sure there are some odd circumstances you can never account for, but I am worried about passing through the bad guy and hitting somebody else. Even worse I am worried about shooting and missing and the bullet going through the wall and injuring some innocent.

[Mr. S]

I would have to agree with the statement in the link you posted Mr. S, If I have to shoot threw a windshield or a trunk then I am probably going to jail. Sure there are some odd circumstances you can never account for, but I am worried about passing through the bad guy and hitting somebody else. Even worse I am worried about shooting and missing and the bullet going through the wall and injuring some innocent.

That statement came from someone at Hornady about their Critical Defense ammo.Its ironic they say that when Critical Defense isn't designed to work on barriers.
But now low and behold they have a new "Critical Duty" round available that addresses that concern.

Anyway back to the original topic..Do you have an opinion on Hornday?

[Bawanna]

I'm sure Joyce Hornady is rolling over in his grave at the idea of them naming ammunition like that.
I like Hornady stuff, I've used alot of the their bullets reloading in the past.

I think the Zombie name was a huge error on their part. I'll still use em, I think they are good stuff. I have very little experience with their loaded ammunition so no comment on that.

[tv_racin_fan]

Lets see... dang can't use Hornady because of the Zombie thing.. can't use Remington because of the magazine/clip thing... can't use Ruger because of the ten round limit thing... can't use Smith and Wesson because of the stupid lock thingy.... can't use Taurus because of the silly 45 colt 410 thingies... sheesh guess I might just as well sell all my firearms.

[Bawanna]

We do seem to be overwelmed with negative lately huh?

How much for the whole batch?

[MO_Soldier]

I would have to agree with the statement in the link you posted Mr. S, If I have to shoot threw a windshield or a trunk then I am probably going to jail. Sure there are some odd circumstances you can never account for, but I am worried about passing through the bad guy and hitting somebody else. Even worse I am worried about shooting and missing and the bullet going through the wall and injuring some innocent.

Personally...I'm military, and train with the utmost gun control. I understand human error...but if I were the bad guy and were to encounter an armed citizen, I would definitely find a barrier to better my chances. As that armed citizen, I hope that my adversary isn't that smart...but IF he is, I don't want rounds that won't go through his cover; then my odds are against me.

My bullet is going to go where I want it to. And for the off chance that it doesn't, I should have already planned for what's beyond my target. I know there are A LOT of conditions that one can never predict, but I want a round that I can count on hitting my target no matter what he decides to do. That's why I want the new Critical Duty round.


We do seem to be overwelmed with negative lately huh?

How much for the whole batch?

Yes Bawanna...it seems that way! haha. I can't seem to get much Hornady support on this thread.
I have only found 25 and 250 round orders. Prices being $20/$170 respectively. That's for CDefense though. I haven't found any retailers carrying CDuty....YET!

[muggsy]

Love their ammo. Hate their advertising. I'm also quite fond of Speer and Remington Golden Saber ammo.

[muggsy]

Hornady, love their ammo. Hate their advertising. I'm also quite fond of Remington Golden Saber and Speer ammo.

[MO_Soldier]

Love their ammo. Hate their advertising. I'm also quite fond of Speer and Remington Golden Saber ammo.

I did a lot of looking around at terminal ballistics before I even decided what caliber I wanted. Through all of my looking, Golden Saber was the best, so that was my first carry ammo. But shortly after buying it, I came across a lot of bad reports of their tips clogging from clothing. I couldn't have that and switched immediately.

Speer and Federal I'm uncomfortably unfamiliar with though. I'm really opening myself up for attacks with that statement, being so strongly biased towards Hornady, but I just haven't found that much third party ballistics information on the rounds.

[LaP]

I guess the dummest thing I can add to this thread is that I carry Hornady FTX and/or XTP ammo in my pistols. It's also rumored that I load Gold Dot 124gr. :rolleyes:

[FLBri]

That statement came from someone at Hornady about their Critical Defense ammo.Its ironic they say that when Critical Defense isn't designed to work on barriers.
But now low and behold they have a new "Critical Duty" round available that addresses that concern.

Anyway back to the original topic..Do you have an opinion on Hornday?

I was alone (thankfully) at my office about a year ago late at night and while practicing pocket draw I was distracted with a phone call. Post call I went back to the draw, but forgot that I had reloaded my SP101. I am embarrassed to confess to my one and only accidental discharge. The Critical defense 38sp. +P went through3/4" plywood, 5/8" fire rated drywall with plaster, 3.5" of fiberglass insulation, and another layer of drywall into the next office over. I never found the slug, and it was not a large room in the unit next door.

Scared the Shyte out of me ... but it I found it will penetrate SOME!

[Knight92]

Don't get me wrong I carry the Critical Defense ammo, as I feel this is the best I can obtain at a regular basis. If I could come across some Ranger T's or HSt's in town I might purchase those but, I have not come across any of those yet.

One of the guys in my LGS carries Critical Defense as well and that tells me something.

[MO_Soldier]

Don't get me wrong I carry the Critical Defense ammo, as I feel this is the best I can obtain at a regular basis. If I could come across some Ranger T's or HSt's in town I might purchase those but, I have not come across any of those yet.

One of the guys in my LGS carries Critical Defense as well and that tells me something.

What do you feel is more beneficial about the Ranger T's or HST's that the CDefense doesn't have? I'm unfamiliar with those rounds' terminal ballistics. How do they stack up to the new CDuty line?

What's LGS?

[MikeyKahr]

Local gun store.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Knight92]

The Ranger T's and HST's if I remember correctly are made to have sharp edges on the jacket curl, so as to inflict more damage and maybe with any luck hit an artery. Though the thing I don't like a lot, not all, of the Ranger T's and HST's are +p and don't like shooting the +p for self defense since I don't shoot it at the range.

This is the only real benefit I have seen, and from what little I have read seem to function just about the same as the Critical Defense, though they have better penetration if I remember correctly.

[MO_Soldier]

The Ranger T's and HST's if I remember correctly are made to have sharp edges on the jacket curl, so as to inflict more damage and maybe with any luck hit an artery. Though the thing I don't like a lot, not all, of the Ranger T's and HST's are +p and don't like shooting the +p for self defense since I don't shoot it at the range.

This is the only real benefit I have seen, and from what little I have read seem to function just about the same as the Critical Defense, though they have better penetration if I remember correctly.

Do you know if they have tip-clogging effects like some of the other HPJ's that I've read about like the Golden Sabers when passing through clothing or barriers?

[vn6869]

I like Hornady ammo and bullets, have reloaded with their bullets for years.

I like the CDef ammo, and use it in my PD weapon. Why?
I am suspicious of HP ammo jamming, just a mental thingy I guess.
Also suspicious of HP being clogged, just don't want to take the chance.

I also like PowRBall and Glaser ammo. I like the FMJ profile.
Don't care to have to spend the money to shoot 500 rounds of each type to make sure it will work in my particular gun.

[Knight92]

From what I have read I have not seen anything about the tipp clogging problem with the HST's or Ranger T's.

I believe the Ranger T's are bonded which is supposed to increase penetration without clogging, either that or it was just the Ranger bonded

[denverd0n]

at first I thought it was a Halloween prank - but it's real.
It is a Halloween prank. Yeah, it's real ammo, and it is being sold in those goofy boxes, but come on. Hornady is obviously being totally tongue-in-cheek about this.

Is it really so bad for an ammunition company to have a little bit of a sense of humor about their products? I don't think so.

[MO_Soldier]

From what I have read I have not seen anything about the tipp clogging problem with the HST's or Ranger T's.

I believe the Ranger T's are bonded which is supposed to increase penetration without clogging, either that or it was just the Ranger bonded

I wonder why the Golden Sabers suffered this fate but they didn't. Aesthetically they share the same basic properties.

I have yet to get my hands on any CDuty rounds from a retail store...:mad:

[whitemule]

In my Keltec PF9, I like Horn CDfence. Very accurate, smooth feeding (everything feeds smoothly in that little gem) However, I just tested some Critical Defense rounds in my CM9, for which I have a 6rd and a 7rd mag. Some rounds were impossible to load into the mags, usually as I recall about the third or fourth. When that happened, I would have to remove them all and start over. When firing I experienced a frequent nosedives that were only clearable by removing the mag. I am thinking that the polymer tip is hanging up on the feed ramp and/or in the mag well.

As for Golden Sabers, Rem reportedly makes bonded version but I have yet to find any on sale, only the old non-bonded versions seem to be available. Maybe the retailers are trying to get rid of old stock, or maybe Rem won't supply the bonded stuff (the old "LE only" ploy?) I do load Rem GS in my .357 S&W wheeler as it's a bit milder than many but still packs a punch.

[dshideler]

Check out tnoutdoors9 on YouTube. He does lots of testing on all kinds of ammo. Pretty neat videos.

[Markis82]

From what I have read I have not seen anything about the tipp clogging problem with the HST's or Ranger T's.

I believe the Ranger T's are bonded which is supposed to increase penetration without clogging, either that or it was just the Ranger bondedRanger T-Series are not bonded. The regular Rangers are not bonded. The bonded Rangers are the ones that say, "Ranger Bonded" Bonding has nothing to do with clogging. The advantage of bonded is that the bullet as less of a change of falling apart or pieces of it breaking off. Draw back - The bonding process requires that the bullet be made out of a softer composition than regular non-bonded rounds.

[Mr_D]

Reading the Hornady site shows that the CDef is optimized for short barreled defense weapons. The CDuty is not optimized for short barrels and will deliver standard recoil.

Here's the page (http://www.hornady.com/support/critical-duty-and-critical-defense)

[muggsy]

What you shoot them with isn't as critical as where you shoot them.

[muggsy]

[QUOTE=denverd0n;108657]It is a Halloween prank. Yeah, it's real ammo, and it is being sold in those goofy boxes, but come on. Hornady is obviously being totally tongue-in-cheek about this.

Is it really so bad for an ammunition company to have a little bit of a sense of humor about their products? I don't think so.[/QUOTE

Do you see anything amusing about shooting someone in self defense? I doubt that many do? Hornady is demonstrating a warped sense of humor and it reflects on the shooting public.

[Avenger]

I just did a search on Amazon, just in books, for "zombie". Got back 9,407 results. Googled "zombie +movie" and there were over 12,000,000 results. Googled "zombie +games" and there were over 15,000,000 results!

Seems to me that Hornady is doing a very good job of choosing a topic that is "hot" right now and trying to take advantage of it to increase sales. I have no problem with that. Perhaps because I realize that zombies don't really exist.

It is interesting to me that so many people are up in arms about Hornady's choice of marketing especially in light of the all to common form of objectifying and ogling scantily dressed women in swimsuits and other suggestive clothing promoting a manufacturers guns.

If you don't like Hornady's ammo based on it's merits, then fine. But to trash it because it promotes killing FICTIONAL characters is bull-she-ite.

Just my $0.02 worth.

[tv_racin_fan]

Seems that the world has warped sense of humour.

EVERYONE knows that SEX and humor sells. Even better if you can get a bit of both in.

[FLBri]

Seems that the world has warped sense of humour.

EVERYONE knows that SEX and humor sells. Even better if you can get a bit of both in.

Sex and Zombies dont work for me ....;)

But I do like Hornady