Real World Combat

[LaP]

OK, we practice with handguns.... maybe even rifles, but does anybody practice hand-to-hand? How about knifes, batons, walking sticks, ..etc?

I'm a disabled old fart. My concealed handgun is pretty much my first and only option (besides shuffling away at the speed of smell) In my youth and military experience, I had grappling skills and could take a punch or three....not anymore.

Anyone still pratice the art of unarmed fighting....hand-to-hand type stuff?

[jlottmc]

Well, I have the military training, and am in the police academy, so I wouldn't be the best one to ask. I have studied a couple of martial arts over the years, but haven't practiced them in a little while. I will be getting back into that in fairly short order though.

[Barth]

Third Degree Black Belt (Instructor) Combat Hapkido.
Hand to hand, handguns, knives, short sticks, staff, cane, rope -
the usual stuff.

Don't currently train in the arts.
But after 10+ years five days a week learning from 5 degree masters,
it's pretty much part of me and as natural as breathing.

Plus, I still train 45 minutes weights and 45 minutes cardoi at 5AM five days a week.

Even at 54, I've still got some suprises up my sleeve!
http://www.pil-sungmartialarts.com/images/ichflogoy.gif

[LaP]

Barth, with those credentials I certainly wouldn't mess with you. Isn't it nice to be able to have those skills and nobody knows it? Kinda like having multiple concealed weapons on you at all times.;)

jlottmc, the academy will give you some good fundimentals. If you still want more, I sure there's one or two instructors that will give you additional training..... just depends on how far you want to go. Read Bath's post as a good example.

[wyntrout]

I studied Karate while stationed on Okinawa in '67/'68. I went to 3 or 4 classes at a Dojo there and gave it up as I was TDY so much, or flying long reconnaissance missions out of Oki. You have to really want to learn, too. I did, but just didn't think I had the time and continuity to properly train.

I have a brown belt that I carry my Kahrs on... and a F.A.S.T. Gerber for backup.

I have great respect for those who do learn enough martial arts to take care of themselves... and others. Chuck Norris and Steven Seagal were my heroes... AND Toshiro Mifune and Kung Fu's David Caine, as well. I wish that Seagal had stayed trim and changed outfits more often, though. He's an expert pistol shot with 1911's, too.

One thing I always stress is staying out of someone's reach. You can't let anyone yack and get close enough to overpower you... with martial arts or a knife... things just happen too quickly. You have to be firm with them and followup on a warning to "Stop or I'll shoot!" That's why you can't wait until a situation arises to work out your mental ability or decision to use deadly force... the hesitation could be fatal.

Being licensed to carry and doing so gives me confidence, but I know that situational awareness is my biggest weapon for defense. If you don't pay attention to what's going on around you, you're liable to be quickly overcome. I always am alert for situations, especially in convenience stores and crowds, which I avoid. And when being seated in a restaurant, I try to have the most advantageous seat to watch for trouble. I remember Luby's Massacre in Killeen, Texas.

Wynn:)

[Bkahrfull]

Uumm, no not really, I do carry .K40, besides I can't help thinking of that scene for the first Indianna Jones movie where the guy jumps out and starts waving the sword and Indy pulls his revolver and drops him right there. That still kills me!

[getsome]

I watched Kung Fu when I was a kid and I also had a Batman cape and equipment belt...I lifted a full pot of water to make coffee this morning but it tired me out so I'm going to take a short nap now at the Holiday Inn Express....:D

[Bawanna]

Yeah the Batman cape. I recall my Batman cape with face mask. Went to jump from the dresser to the bed and the darn thing got caught in the ceiling fan. Nearly hung myself.

She wasn't impressed either.

I know about pumping up to lift the coffee pot too. A sure sign of the need for exercise.

[wyntrout]

Uumm, no not really, I do carry .K40, besides I can't help thinking of that scene for the first Indianna Jones movie where the guy jumps out and starts waving the sword and Indy pulls his revolver and drops him right there. That still kills me!

That was definitely a classic move. As a teen... or later... I wore Hai Karate aftershave, too, for a while.

Wynn:D

[TheTman]

I'm short and skinny, so most the "fighting types" look for someone a little bigger to get it on with and leave me alone for the most part. I do know a few things for hand to hand, luckily I've not had to try them out. I'd rather draw my weapon and say I'll be moving on unless you want to argue with some lead. I have disparity of force on my side as almost everyone is bigger than me, LOL. I don't go too many places where fights are likely to break out, and when on the street at night, I'm definately in condition yellow to orange (if I see someone that looks "out of place"). I believe I have a great responsibility for the greater good by being a CC permit holder. I would come to the aid of a person being victimized by a gang of hoods. Particularly and older person or a woman. If it's a young punk you kinda have to wonder if they maybe aren't deserving of the butt whooping they are getting, but if a group starts using weapons against and unarmed man, I'd come to his aid too. Kansas law allows us to act on the benefit of anyone that is afraid for their life. I've not had to do so, other than an ex husband beating his ex wife in the parking lot here, but no weapons were involved, just a threat of a 911 call. I believe that little episode cost him his CC permit, which messed up a lot of his work as a bounty hunter.

[O'Dell]

Not since Marine hand to hand training in the sixties. That's why I carry a gun. :D

[Chuck54]

Bawanna



Was it your wife that was not impressed with cape and mask ??

[Bawanna]

Bawanna



Was it your wife that was not impressed with cape and mask ??

I knew someone would ask me that and I wish I had a good answer. I wanna say probably so. I wasn't a playa in my youth or since far as that goes so probably so. I chalk it up to the insanity of youth and probably a slight overdose of mind altering beverages.

Actually the cape and mask probably went over pretty well. Good effort on my part, the ceiling fan collision no so much.

[Rainman48314]

OK, we practice with handguns.... maybe even rifles, but does anybody practice hand-to-hand? How about knifes, batons, walking sticks, ..etc?

I'm a disabled old fart. My concealed handgun is pretty much my first and only option (besides shuffling away at the speed of smell) In my youth and military experience, I had grappling skills and could take a punch or three....not anymore.

Anyone still pratice the art of unarmed fighting....hand-to-hand type stuff?I don't suppose twenty minutes Saturday nigh in my bedroom counts? Thought not, although, I keep winning, despite the fact she knows what's coming. :)

Call me too old to run, too tired to fight.

[LaP]

I'm counting a few fighters and lots of Barney Fifes.:D

The good thing is, most punks can't tell which group you're in.... keeps them guessing and moving on to easier targets.

I never had a cape. Just a kick-butt Spiderman shirt. I could leap from building to building in just a few dozen attempts.

[Rainman48314]

I'm counting a few fighters and lots of Barney Fifes.:D

The good thing is, most punks can't tell which group you're in.... keeps them guessing and moving on to easier targets.

I never had a cape. Just a kick-butt Spiderman shirt. I could leap from building to building in just a few dozen attempts.I just bought a T-shirt with a very large peace sign and the inscription, Peace Through Superior Firepower". So far its working.

[getsome]

Oh I forgot about the punching bag I had as a kid....It was a blow up bag about 5 feet tall with sand in the bottom to keep it standing up and a clown face...I used to whoop the tar outta that bad boy and never once lost a fight but it wasn't really fair cause the thing didn't have any arms....:p

[Bawanna]

I had the same set up. I was only about 10 and 7 weekly with mine. It popped back up a couple times when I wasn't ready and won with a TKO! Awkward with no arms.

I think it was a sneaky model and powered by the devil though.

[LaP]

I gotta get the shirt that says:

Don't mess with an old guy.
He's already done what you're thinking about doing.

[getsome]

Bawanna you kill me sometimes...I just spat Dr Pepper all over my screen...:D

[Bawanna]

Mission accomplished. My work here is done.

[muggsy]

I received some hand to hand training in the military, most of it in bars. I dabbled in the martial arts just enough to become a danger to myself. I'm to old to fight, to crippled to run, but I can still manage to squeeze the trigger of my CM9 6+1 times. I'm working on 5# finger curls now as I type with my weak hand. :)

[ltxi]

I gotta get the shirt that says:

Don't mess with an old guy.
He's already done what you're thinking about doing.

I like that one. I'm gonna steal it.

[Bawanna]

I think there would be a good market for that shirt. Never heard that one but it will sell like hotcakes if they put it on the market. I'll take a couple myself. And a hat too.

If they monogram skivey shorts with that logo, I'll take some of those too.

[CharlieW]

Well, Friday night a bunch of us went to the range -- 5 guys and 3 ladies, all of us Tae Kwon Do Blackbelts. Seems that a lot of the people I train with also like to shoot and hunt. And really, the self defense mindset is the same -- train, practice, maintain situational awareness, etc. Each activity supports the other.

[CharlieW]

I'm counting a few fighters and lots of Barney Fifes.:D

The good thing is, most punks can't tell which group you're in.... keeps them guessing and moving on to easier targets.

I never had a cape. Just a kick-butt Spiderman shirt. I could leap from building to building in just a few dozen attempts.

Better to look like a Barney, and be a fighter, than the other way around. :D

[LaP]

Better to look like a Barney, and be a fighter, than the other way around. :D

True, True. My old-man disguise works pretty well but, I do keep a wary eye on my surroundings. Avoidance is still the best defense.
I try not to look like prey. The preditors will hopefully move on to another victim, BUUUUT, it's good to have a Plan-B (AKA Smith&Wesson, Kahr or Mr. Ruger);)

P.S. Do all you Tae Kuan Do people hang out together and just hope that some idiot thinks he's Ten Foot Tall and bulletproof?:D

[ltxi]

I think there would be a good market for that shirt. Never heard that one but it will sell like hotcakes if they put it on the market. I'll take a couple myself. And a hat too.

If they monogram skivey shorts with that logo, I'll take some of those too.

Ok, now that, there I'm taking on as a challenge....maybe add a minor variation or two on the wording, also

[olympicmotorcars]

2nd degree black belt, Tae Kwon Do since 1981. Haven't actively trained in the arts for about 5 years now. I came to the realization pretty early on that I was no martial arts champion. I could probably take care of myself against someone that had no training and was about my same size , but realistically would have trouble against a much larger man.

One other thing I learned long ago is, real world fights do not follow rules and rarely do 2 people just square off against each other and trade punches. They almost always involve several people against one, much larger men against smaller men, someone sucker punches someone else when they have no warning, weapons are involved, etc. The real world is a lot more chaotic and unfair than any controlled sparring match.

A 40 caliber Kahr riding on my hip every day is much more comfort than the black belt hanging in my closet ever was.

In my opinion martial arts are wonderful, but do not let them make you overconfident.

[mr surveyor]

I don't worry about it... I'm invisible:D

[Barth]

2nd degree black belt, Tae Kwon Do since 1981. Haven't actively trained in the arts for about 5 years now. I came to the realization pretty early on that I was no martial arts champion. I could probably take care of myself against someone that had no training and was about my same size , but realistically would have trouble against a much larger man.

One other thing I learned long ago is, real world fights do not follow rules and rarely do 2 people just square off against each other and trade punches. They almost always involve several people against one, much larger men against smaller men, someone sucker punches someone else when they have no warning, weapons are involved, etc. The real world is a lot more chaotic and unfair than any controlled sparring match.

A 40 caliber Kahr riding on my hip every day is much more comfort than the black belt hanging in my closet ever was.

In my opinion martial arts are wonderful, but do not let them make you overconfident.

It's sad and funny at the same time the general public's perception of having a Black Belt.
Ridiculous movies/T.V. shows, with some true martial art masters/world champions staring in them,
paint a vivid picture of a superman with super powers. LOL! I wish

I do believe martial arts can compliment concealed carry though.
Specifically with weapons retention.
Combat Hapkido involves a lot of joint locking and defense against grabs and throws.
As well as ground fighting and weapon disarming (handgun/knife/stick).
We trained against multiple larger opponents as well.

No rules street fighting from our friends across the ocean
http://www.artesguerreras.es/WebRoot/StoreES/Shops/ea3196/4A9E/9D15/68DA/23FB/9D13/52DF/A338/F50C/DVD-combat-hapkido-pellegrine-3.jpg

[knkali]

I agree with Barth and Olympicmotorcars completely. Spin kicks and katas have no place in SD.

All the hand to hand stuff I trained for is being attacked and countering. When you square off with a guy, I consider that a no win situation. This is where all the BBelt guys win unless the guy is a heck of a street fighter. A lot of training is mental conditioning for when to decide you will put up a strong attack/counter and creating distance to do your gun work. If you feel you can handle yourself and are in your late forties or over, play fight with a kid in his early twenties and you will find out how fast sheet happens. It is humbling how age deminishes reflexes. Frankly, if a guy crowds you and gets in your space, and he is not a friend or loved one, you should consider that an attack and not wait for him to touch you. He can say what he wants at a normal distance. You dont have smell his breath for him to say what he wants. Stay calm. Dont do anything to provoke. Do everything to avoid. However, after you produce a quick and powerful attack-- get away. There are little things that make a big difference such as where your hands are when he approaches, your head position ect. Most attacks are usually 2+ guys against one and are usualy young guys too. Surviving the intial onslaught is really the goal. Being able to get to an edged weapon can help equalize 2 against 1 situations but it can be an accelerant for a confrontation also. So if you deploy a knife it should be only to use it.

When all else fails and you cannot get to a weapon and are tied up on the ground--BITE. Tear into your attacker like a lion into a gazelle.

[olympicmotorcars]

Barth, and Knkali : You both speak the truth. I wish I had more training in joint locking/ grappling / ground fighting. It appears most real world encounters end up with at least one person on the ground very quickly, sometimes in a wrestling match. I also have no illusions about my reflexes being at the level they were 25 years ago (they were not super fast even then).

I can hardly bring myself to watch the cartoonish quality most martial arts have now taken on in the movies or on television.