Range Report After Repair

[John Law]

Well I just got back from the range. My PM45 just came back from repair yesterday, Kahr had it for 3 weeks, not a bad turn around time.
I wish I could report good results but that was not the case. The first 20 rounds were trouble free so I figured I was home free but then I started to experiencing numerous failures to feed, usually on the 3 round, also an occasional failure to chamber the first round on a new mag, again the cartridge would jam ( I did use the slide stop lever )
I test fired with the following ammunition:
WWB 230 gr FMJ.. Total rounds fired 55... first 20 rds OK , with the next 3 mags round # 3 in each mag jammed, I had to drop the mag and rack the slide to clear the jam. After that the next 4 mags had 2 FTF.
Remington UMC 230 gr FMJ ..Total rounds fired 35... No Failures
Speer Lawman 230 gr FMJ ..Total rounds fired 20... I shot 4 full mags and with every mag round # 3 jammed and had to be cleared as stated above.
I fired a total of 110 rounds today. The gun has a total of 255 rds from both range trips.
What was interesting was the UMC had no failures. I am wondering if the cartridge length may have been ever so slightly shorter than the other 2 brands, I dont know, just a guess.
I am disappointed because I wanted this to be my carry gun. I guess on Monday I will be calling Kahr again to have it sent back.
I'm not sure if this gun can be repaired, at least not with the fluff and buff that they did, it looks like Kahr will have to start replacing some parts or maybe the gun. JL

[Ikeo74]

John, before you send it back the second time try 100 more Remington UMC that didn't give you any trouble and shoot all 100 as another test. I think the problems you are having may be because the gun is not quite broken in yet. Don't be so fast to return it before more testing. Who knows the next 100 of UMC may be all it takes to complete your break in. Try puting automotive grease on the recoil springs and guide rod, plus the slide rails, be liberal. Load your mags 1 short and see if everything works. ;)

[OldLincoln]

Picking up from your initial thread, did you do a solid clean and grease all lube points? When one brand shoots well but another doesn't we believe it is the bad round is likely not as strong as the good one. The enemy is friction and that's why you must grease the appropriate lube points, especially #6 & #3, and use good rounds to overcome the friction. Once broken-in the friction drops off and most any ammo will do.

Please don't give up on it, but please DO follow the help you are getting and let us know how your next trip turns out.

[John Law]

I did scrub the gun clean and I followed the chart for the appropriate lube points, the first time I shot the gun I used grease. I could not get through one complete mag without a FTF. I cleaned all the grease out and re lubed it with oil, it seemed to be a bit better but I was still getting catastrophic jams. Probably was getting better because it was loosening up and had nothing to do with grease or oil.
On both range trips I also paid special attention to alleviate shooter induced failures and limp wristing. The same condition occurred with 2 shooters and 2 different mags.
This range session was improved ( after Repair ) but I still had a total of 12 failures in 110 rounds. I forgot to mention in my above post that I also had 3 FTF when putting in a fresh mag, the first round jammed on chambering. That happened twice with WWB and once with Lawman. I always used the slide stop lever, I never did sling shot the slide.
As far as the Remington UMC goes I was thinking that possibly those rounds were a hair shorter in overall length than the others which may have caused them to feed better. I wanted to mic them but didnt have anymore so that idea was gone.
The other thing I noticed with the jams ( other than when chambering a first round ) they all occurred on the # 3 round. Prior to the repair it was always the # 2 or #3 that jammed.
I still havent tried any JHP because they are just to expensive to waste and with the amount of failures I was having I figured they would jam also. So far I have a total of 260 rounds through the gun.
Kahr stated they test fired the gun and it was OK, they may not have put enough through it. My first 20 were good also, after that it went south. I doubt Kahr put more than 10 -15 rounds through the gun, it was not that dirty when I took it apart.
I'm not angry at Kahr and I still love the gun, I guess I'm just disappointed and unsure about what to do next. JL

[O'Dell]

What was interesting was the UMC had no failures. I am wondering if the cartridge length may have been ever so slightly shorter than the other 2 brands, I dont know, just a guess.
JL

I'm not sure about the WWB 45 because it always worked in my PM45, but I do know that their 9mm is slightly long. Years ago I had a PF9 that wouldn't shoot it at all because of the length.

[John Law]

Tucson,
I may be wrong but I dont think the 45 has as many options as the 40 for OTC practice stuff, most of what I see in FMJ is 230gr. JHP you can get 185, 200 gr as well as the 230 & 230+P. But they are expensive.
I had a Springfield Armory EMP that did the same thing as my Kahr but a trip to SA fixed it. That one also choked on FMJ.

[Bawanna]

It should shoot anything you want to feed it. Mine doesn't like anything that's overly long but eats an factory load. Only time it balked was with my handloads which I seated just a couple 1000's to long.
If you take a round and drop it in the barrel and push with your finger, then turn the barrel up and it falls out on it's own it should work.
I had some that pushing into the chamber apparently contacted the rifling and they stuck. Those didn't work so well.
I'd shoot another 100 of the rounds that worked and see if things improved. If not back to Kahr it goes. It's worth making it right and they will do that given the chance.

[OldLincoln]

I agree with that. I've seen posts where a new one is taken out dripping with the gunk Kahr puts on them to ship and shots a bunch with no failures and others properly cleaned and greased and several fails. That tells me some are tighter than others and the tight one need stiff ammo to push past the friction. I don't what brands are hotter in fmj but if UMC shoots, shoot it.

[John Law]

I appreciate all the great advise and have decided to hit the range one more time tomorrow. I just cleaned the gun again, this time I went back to the grease to see what happens. The gun has loosened up a bit so I dont think it will be a problem. I have several different brands of ammo that I am going to try plus some HST and Gold Dots, man I hate to shoot them, its hard to find and expensive.
I measured the WWB and it was slightly longer than the Lawman, the UMC was the shortest. When I measured the HST and Gold Dot it was even shorter than the UMC, so we'll see what happens. Im going try to put another 100 or 150 rounds through it.
Bawanna I think you are right, if it doesnt work this time Kahr geta a call on Monday.
Stay tuned, the saga continues with another new and exciting post tomorrow. JL

[OldLincoln]

John, until it is shooting FMJ well I wouldn't advise trying HST or Gold Dots. My PM9 got past the hickups and shot FMJ well but the HST were a tad longer and it was only after it ran well that I got it to feed HST reliably. That said, it won't hurt anything, just don't want your expectations to be real high for it. It should really eat up +P however, if it's genuinely hotter. BTW, I love the HST for carry.

[Bawanna]

^^^^^ Yeah I wouldn't waste any of the good stuff till it behaves itself. A mag or so just to see if it seems to be running would be good info.

Mine eats Gold Dots and Winchester SXT without issue.

[SyckoSmoker]

This may have already been discussed. If it has and I missed it my apologies. Have you checked the magazines for proper spring assembly? check for any rough spots inside of mags? I say shoot another couple of hundred rounds of ball and see what happens. It may just be overly tight or a xtra strong spring.

[deanp1964]

It should shoot anything you want to feed it. Mine doesn't like anything that's overly long but eats an factory load. Only time it balked was with my handloads which I seated just a couple 1000's to long.
If you take a round and drop it in the barrel and push with your finger, then turn the barrel up and it falls out on it's own it should work.
I had some that pushing into the chamber apparently contacted the rifling and they stuck. Those didn't work so well.
I'd shoot another 100 of the rounds that worked and see if things improved. If not back to Kahr it goes. It's worth making it right and they will do that given the chance.

what he said.

[FLBri]

Let me throw up another idea that I just discovered. My sig P238 had/has occasional failure to return to battery on a fresh mag when chambering from the slide lock back. I attributed this to a weak recoil spring (they are, to me, to soft from the factory, but that's just an opinion). I was cleaning the gun and had an epiphany while watching the action as the bullet entered the barrel. The place it hangs up is as the slide is coming forward and the casing rim is being pushed up into the extractor. I took it down and tried manually pushing a round up into the extractor seat with just the slide assembly in my hand. It was hard ... harder than my wifes identical gun and harder than any others in my stable.

My conclusion is that many FTF, FTRTB can be caused by this. Perhaps this is what is meant by "Tensioning the extractor?" Some of you 'smith' experts can answer that better than I. I'm just a tinkerer.

But it made me think of many issues I've read of here. I believe that 'tension' on the casing rim entering the extractor can cause a rash of feed problems. Yes, a stronger recoil spring could force it into position and resolve the situation if it is minor .... but the heart of the problem (at least mine .... maybe yours) may be worth checking.

Also I can see where 'break in' can wear this are in on a new gun.

[dixidawg]

Check out this:

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm

It helped me figure out what I was doing wrong.

[Hognutz]

Nice chart. I think I managed to do them all on my last shooting escapade..Mike :D

[John Law]

I've seen that chart before, its good. The one thing I never had a problem with was accuracy, this PM 45 is very accurate. After todays range trip with ALMOST 100% function I may be home free. What a great feeling.