9mm +P Gold Dot stuck - UPDATE re HK P7 reassembly

[Rainman48314]

Guys, I shot a flawless 110 rounds( 50 Rem UMC, 50 PMC and ten GD +P) in my HK P7 today. A couple of hours later I decided to clean it. I drop the mag which is full (7), rack the slide to empty the chamber but the slide hangs up. It looks like the extractor has a good grip on the base of the shell and that the bullet is well into the chamber. I can't close or open the slide beyond 3/4 inch where it is stuck.

Any ideas on how to make this safe?

[Thunder71]

Quite a pickle you're in... no idea! I guess my only thought would be to try moving it inward and hope that it falls down through the open grip.

??????????

[Bawanna]

Do you think the bullet is still in the case? I'd get a small dowel, wood or plastic and stick down the barrel. Using the dowel as a gauge you'll easily tell if the bullet pulled out of the case or NOT.
If it did in fact pull you might have to tap the dowel on the floor, (usually safest) and dislodge it from the rifling lands. Then maybe things will move and allow you to clear it.

I'm perplexed why it won't eject the case even if the bullet did pull unless it just doesn't have enough room to clear.

[ripley16]

Your gas cylinder is fouled and the piston is stuck. You can either smack the slide forward and shoot the round out, or if that's not possible, I'd put more pressure on the slide to retract it a bit more and push the round down and out the mag well.

Do you have a cylinder scraper? this is the tool used to clean the cylinder every 500 rounds. Carbon, lead, gunk and crap can accumulate in the cylinder and the piston gets mired and stuck. This is no catastrophy, it's a fixable problem.

It looks like you may even be passed the spot where you can remove the slide. I'd try that... push the dismantle button and see if you can very carefully pull the slide up and over and off. The pistol dismantles when retracted about 1/2".

Here's a photo of the complete P7 tool set. The tool on the right is the scaper.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/Heckler%20Koch/tools.jpg

I highly recommend Slip2000 Carbon Killer as a cleaning agent for the cylinder and piston. If you don't have a scaper, then a .270 bronze brush will do. Clean the cylinder the same way you'd clean a bore. Soak the piston in the cleaner and use soft brushes only to wipe it off.

Use very little oil on the piston after cleaning. I like to use Militec1 because heat is what activates this lube and the cylinder gets very hot... yes?

[OldLincoln]

I had a reload on which I was toying with length and tried to see what long looked like. It fed but would not eject much like this one. I ended up with the dowel pushing against the floor and pulled the slide and it came out with some persuasion. I thought it odd that it fed but wouldn't clear but as in life, it goes in one hole and out another.

[MO_Soldier]

See if you can't sandwich your slide between 2 pieces of wood, and use a vice to grip it.
Then, manipulating the lower assembly with your hands you should be able to get enough leverage to fully charge that slide, ejecting the round.

[Rainman48314]

Do you think the bullet is still in the case? I'd get a small dowel, wood or plastic and stick down the barrel. Using the dowel as a gauge you'll easily tell if the bullet pulled out of the case or NOT.
If it did in fact pull you might have to tap the dowel on the floor, (usually safest) and dislodge it from the rifling lands. Then maybe things will move and allow you to clear it.

I'm perplexed why it won't eject the case even if the bullet did pull unless it just doesn't have enough room to clear.I'm very sure the bullet is still just as it came out of the box. I reloaded the mag and chamber from a box I brought to the range. I fired about ten from this same supply.

It sure seems like a repeat of a frozen cylinder which I sent it to HK for. I cleaned it thoroughly, using both tools, after shooting 50 when I got it back.

[Rainman48314]

Your gas cylinder is fouled and the piston is stuck. You can either smack the slide forward and shoot the round out, or if that's not possible, I'd put more pressure on the slide to retract it a bit more and push the round down and out the mag well.

Do you have a cylinder scraper? this is the tool used to clean the cylinder every 500 rounds. Carbon, lead, gunk and crap can accumulate in the cylinder and the piston gets mired and stuck. This is no catastrophy, it's a fixable problem.

It looks like you may even be passed the spot where you can remove the slide. I'd try that... push the dismantle button and see if you can very carefully pull the slide up and over and off. The pistol dismantles when retracted about 1/2".

Here's a photo of the complete P7 tool set. The tool on the right is the scaper.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/Heckler%20Koch/tools.jpg

I highly recommend Slip2000 Carbon Killer as a cleaning agent for the cylinder and piston. If you don't have a scaper, then a .270 bronze brush will do. Clean the cylinder the same way you'd clean a bore. Soak the piston in the cleaner and use soft brushes only to wipe it off.

Use very little oil on the piston after cleaning. I like to use Militec1 because heat is what activates this lube and the cylinder gets very hot... yes?I tend to agree with your diagnosis but don't understand why. I have the American made tool which combines the firing pin wrench into the scraper handle. I use it and the brush. This gun seems to get sticky after it cools off.

[Rainman48314]

See if you can't sandwich your slide between 2 pieces of wood, and use a vice to grip it.
Then, manipulating the lower assembly with your hands you should be able to get enough leverage to fully charge that slide, ejecting the round.
Good idea

[Rainman48314]

She who "cannot be more scared" asked me to work on it only at the range. To keep the peace I agreed. Tomorrow it is. I also sent this thread to the gunsmith at HK for his opinion. Thanks everyone for your input.

[MO_Soldier]

She who "cannot be more scared" asked me to work on it only at the range. To keep the peace I agreed. Tomorrow it is. I also sent this thread to the gunsmith at HK for his opinion. Thanks everyone for your input.

Just do it in secret at your vice and don't show her until you return from the range tomorrow ;)

I didn't realize your lady was the same one from the post about being so spooked?
How's it going with that? Mine was NEVER around a gun before me and I've broken her in well. I've ALMOST got her over getting a pink gun, but she wants one and that's the important part! Got her carrying mace for now.

I also started her on a .22 rifle too. No kick, and I think the longer barrel is more reassuring as to where that round is going. It's easier to have muzzle awareness. (Just a side note)

[Rainman48314]

Just do it in secret at your vice and don't show her until you return from the range tomorrow ;)

I didn't realize your lady was the same one from the post about being so spooked?
How's it going with that? Mine was NEVER around a gun before me and I've broken her in well. I've ALMOST got her over getting a pink gun, but she wants one and that's the important part! Got her carrying mace for now.

I also started her on a .22 rifle too. No kick, and I think the longer barrel is more reassuring as to where that round is going. It's easier to have muzzle awareness. (Just a side note)I'm letting some time pass before I get her out with a 1911 in .22LR or the Marlin rifle in .22LR. I think it needs to be outdoors. I can guarantee you she will never want a pink gun. Refuses any golf items solely intended for women; plays men's clubs and from the men's tee.

As for the vice, that's a problem. I'm in a small condo without any workshop. The range is a short drive and the guys will help me out with dowel rods, a vice etc. If I have to shoot it out, better there than in my kitchen.

[MO_Soldier]

I'm letting some time pass before I get her out with a 1911 in .22LR or the Marlin rifle in .22LR. I think it needs to be outdoors. I can guarantee you she will never want a pink gun. Refuses any golf items solely intended for women; plays men's clubs and from the men's tee.

As for the vice, that's a problem. I'm in a small condo without any workshop. The range is a short drive and the guys will help me out with dowel rods, a vice etc. If I have to shoot it out, better there than in my kitchen.

Good idea with the .22 rifle. The Marlin worked beautifully for me. I've kept mine true to its origins and left it with iron sites.
I wish mine was like that. Now she's wanting a carbon fiber Taurus TCP lol. She REALLY liked the compact Sig Sauer 9mm...I don't know what it's called though. She has good taste and doesn't even know it.

[OldLincoln]

Mine was reluctant to have me store gun powder in the house so I built a very nice powder box. Something came up weeks later and I took her outside and burned a round's worth of power in a glass coaster. She was surprised when all it did was almost slowly burn across from one side to the other.

I had told her but she still thought it would be like the black powder on TV. This experience gave her a sense of comfort having it around. I think the comfort factor is very important to the majority of women. If they are uncertain they won't trust and if they don't trust they won't try new things or even if they try won't accept them.

I recommend that you don't even attempt more than teaching her some safety basics in the first few sessions, but complement her on her safety and whatever else you can find. Compliments lead to becoming comfortable. They are unsure they are doing it right and fear the consequences of doing it wrong. That's why I would only cover the most basic of rules. With a .22 rifle she will figure out that the pointy end spits out tiny bullets that go somewhere. That's all she needs at first. It would even be more fun if she shot 20-30 blanks before a bullet to get used to the noise without risk.

Now that's just my thoughts from being married 45 years to a wonderful woman who still is frightened to ride in the car in the mountains or any other thing that's scary. Gotta move slow or they run away.

[MO_Soldier]

Mine was reluctant to have me store gun powder in the house so I built a very nice powder box. Something came up weeks later and I took her outside and burned a round's worth of power in a glass coaster. She was surprised when all it did was almost slowly burn across from one side to the other.

I had told her but she still thought it would be like the black powder on TV. This experience gave her a sense of comfort having it around. I think the comfort factor is very important to the majority of women. If they are uncertain they won't trust and if they don't trust they won't try new things or even if they try won't accept them.

I recommend that you don't even attempt more than teaching her some safety basics in the first few sessions, but complement her on her safety and whatever else you can find. Compliments lead to becoming comfortable. They are unsure they are doing it right and fear the consequences of doing it wrong. That's why I would only cover the most basic of rules. With a .22 rifle she will figure out that the pointy end spits out tiny bullets that go somewhere. That's all she needs at first. It would even be more fun if she shot 20-30 blanks before a bullet to get used to the noise without risk.

Now that's just my thoughts from being married 45 years to a wonderful woman who still is frightened to ride in the car in the mountains or any other thing that's scary. Gotta move slow or they run away.

Good advice. An add-on to the safety practices before handing her a loaded gun: I would put snap cap blanks in my PM9 and just randomly hand it to her after I taught her how to clear it. That way she got used to making sure a gun was safe, and was confident that she could determine that herself. I would hand it to her in different conditions as well, with/without mag in...etc.

[tv_racin_fan]

I don't care if she wants a pink gun so long as she wants her own gun. In fact I have been encouraging my wife to get a Hello Kitty AR or a Kalishna Kitty AK. Alas my wife don't really care for pink stuff.

Might get a Hello Kitty AR for the grand daughters to shoot...

[OldLincoln]

While I agree with snap caps in the drills routine, my wife would freak out of anything unexpected happened. No kidding, she would hand the gun back to me and say she'll meet me in the car. A key to building trust is no surprises.

Four years after we were married and BK we took a road trip in our new Buick Riviera to Canada. We visited Olympic National Park and Hurricane Ridge. It was absolutely beautiful at an overlook where you could see 5 or 6 ridge lines off in the distance all carpeted with pines.

I got out and walked over near the edge which looked straight down for a thousand feet from inside the car. As it turned out there was a "safety?" ledge about 4' below so I acted like I lost my balance and "fell" down the mountain, having to double over to keep from being seen. After waiting a bit I peaked over the top and see was sitting petrified in the same position. When I walked back she was nearly in a state of shock, pale and the whole bit. All she could get out was "I thought I lost you" which she repeated a dozen or so times. No anger or tears, she was stunned. I felt worse than bear poop and it's as fresh in my mind today today as then. No surprises for us.

[MikeyKahr]

I'm surprised this happened with the higher grade HK and not the lower grade Kahr. *tongue--> cheek*

Sent using Tapatalk

[Rainman48314]

I'm surprised this happened with the higher grade HK and not the lower grade Kahr. *tongue--> cheek*

Sent using TapatalkMe too. Damn 31 year old gun!

I got it apart while talking to HK. They were right on it first thing in the morning after reading the start of this thread and seeing the pictures. Had a nice long talk.

I was able to push the slide forward after it cooled off all night. Not too much effort. I racked the slide far enough to eject the round. Been busy cleaning it and trying to figure out what was wrong. One thing for sure Rem UMC in green and white box is some dirty stuff.

[Thunder71]

I'll never buy Remington UMC again, ack.

[Rainman48314]

Good advice. An add-on to the safety practices before handing her a loaded gun: I would put snap cap blanks in my PM9 and just randomly hand it to her after I taught her how to clear it. That way she got used to making sure a gun was safe, and was confident that she could determine that herself. I would hand it to her in different conditions as well, with/without mag in...etc.
She can't clear my PM9. It's too stiff and tight. I can barely do it.

FYI, HK advised against putting the P7 in a vise. He said to use the vise as a push off. Open the jaws enough to let the barrel move and push against the vice. People who clamp them usually wish they hadn't.

[MO_Soldier]

She can't clear my PM9. It's too stiff and tight. I can barely do it.

FYI, HK advised against putting the P7 in a vise. He said to use the vise as a push off. Open the jaws enough to let the barrel move and push against the vice. People who clamp them usually wish they hadn't.

Sorry to hear about the PM9 racking.

Good thing you didn't! The way they recommended hadn't occurred to me. What a great idea.

[Rainman48314]

Update: I spent a crazy amount of time cleaning my P7. I used some gunscrubber, q-tips, pipe cleaners and dozens of patches. Everything looked fine and assembled...except for the last step which was to reinsert the firing pin assembly. Normally this is easier than taking the gun down. I've done it several times before. Not today.

In looking to see what might be blocking the pin moving fully forward, I inadvertantly removed the DROP SAFETY. I'm not sure how to orient it and how to get it in place. Planning another conversation with Jesse at HK.

I have my eye on a new 9mm SA EMP and also a used S&W 3913. This P7 may be a trade-in soon. The PM9 may also move on. That EMP is really calling my name.

This whole thing has been very annoying.:mad:

[ripley16]

Here are a couple links to maybe help. One thing I noticed is the firing pin bushing is disassembled with the slide removed. I've always thought that was only done with the slide and frame assembled.

One link is to a forum page with a link in reply #6 to a manual you may not have.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/110519-please-help-p7-newb.html#post813370

This link discusses the parts involved. You say the gun was sent to HK, so I assume they replaced anything in need, so this may not really pertain, but it contains a lot of good info.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/113007-p7psp-failure-****-2.html

Oe more link about the drop safety installation.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/106115-p7-drop-safety-catch-help-needed.html

[Rainman48314]

Here are a couple links to maybe help. One thing I noticed is the firing pin bushing is disassembled with the slide removed. I've always thought that was only done with the slide and frame assembled.

One link is to a forum page with a link in reply #6 to a manual you may not have.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/110519-please-help-p7-newb.html#post813370

This link discusses the parts involved. You say the gun was sent to HK, so I assume they replaced anything in need, so this may not really pertain, but it contains a lot of good info.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/113007-p7psp-failure-****-2.html

Oe more link about the drop safety installation.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/106115-p7-drop-safety-catch-help-needed.htmlTHanks for the links, I'd found those very late last night.

Just FYI, there is a way to remove the firing pin after the slide is off, it's described in the armorer guide. It's just easier when the gun is still assembled. My process is 1. Remove FP assembly 2. Remove slide 3. clean 4 reassemble 5 install FP

The tricky part of the drop safety is orienting the part and the spring. The dogleg side of the spring must face forward. Will ask HK whether to try and latch spring ends first or last or if a tool is neeeded to hold the DS. Not much working room. If I need to send it in, at least it's just the slide and that saves a lot of $$$.

EDIT : The large U shape faces the rear of the slide, the nub where the spring attaches faces outside the side and the dog leg side of the spring points forward. HK now uses a tool but it can be done with a small modified screw driver. I'm giving it one last try, otherwise Jesse will do it for me.

He tells me they just received a very large supply of grenade launcher and he'll be busy playing with them. Nice job he's got.

[ripley16]

Sorry I couldn't offer any help or tips from a personal experience aspect, I've never replaced the drop safety in either of my P7s.