Question for Bawanna

[Tap]

Since you have " Insider Trading Info" PLEASE share with us the Serial Number that started when "The Fix" was in.
I want to buy a P380!!! BUT only one that is made right the first time.

AND for those of you that will tell me to buy something else--I have.
Had an LCP. OK but rust! and trigger sucks. So to have the slide hard cromed and sights close to the P380, I would spend more and have a crappy trigger also.
I have studied all of the pocket 380 and the VALUE of the P380 ( that works)
is a cut above the others, IMO.
NEED HELP!!!! I tried to get here with my other thread, but no definitive answer outcome.
Thanks , Tap

[Bawanna]

Since you have " Insider Trading Info" PLEASE share with us the Serial Number that started when "The Fix" was in.
I want to buy a P380!!! BUT only one that is made right the first time.

AND for those of you that will tell me to buy something else--I have.
Had an LCP. OK but rust! and trigger sucks. So to have the slide hard cromed and sights close to the P380, I would spend more and have a crappy trigger also.
I have studied all of the pocket 380 and the VALUE of the P380 ( that works)
is a cut above the others, IMO.
NEED HELP!!!! I tried to get here with my other thread, but no definitive answer outcome.
Thanks , Tap

You won't see me hanging around with Martha Stewart. I have no insider trading info per se.

I have it on good authority that the P380 issue is identified. They have the cure (usually a new frame). I also have it on good authority that the new production 380's have the cure built in and should have no issues.

If you buy one and after the 200 round break in it's still not right, call Kahr. They will cure it.

That's all I know about that.

[Tap]

I believe that it is fixed and that you and Pelosi run in the same circles. HeHe.:p:p:p.
All I am asking is to not have to rely on Kahr fixing it.
Surly they know when they started to produce GOOD P380's. IT seems that
from the other thread that RC4xxx, is about the time. Can you confirm that.??

[Bawanna]

I believe that it is fixed and that you and Pelosi run in the same circles. HeHe.:p:p:p.
All I am asking is to not have to rely on Kahr fixing it.
Surly they know when they started to produce GOOD P380's. IT seems that
from the other thread that RC4xxx, is about the time. Can you confirm that.??

I'll try to do so but it should be noted that even earlier serial numbers may be just fine. The sequences are mixed up and there's no set group that are bad.

Use me and Pelosi in the same sentence one more time and I will arrange for travel documents for you that no longer include my favorite place.
That's not funny mister.

[Tap]

All Kidding aside, I think several members would like to understand more on the serial numbers for the P380. Your help would be much appreciated.

[Bawanna]

My good authority sadly reports that the serial numbers are not sequenced. There is no set of numbers that are bad. Likewise he can't say everything after a certain serial number is good.
What he did say is that if you buy one and it has issues as much as a pain as it is send it in and they will fix it.

I'm sorry there isn't a black and white solid answer here.

[rogerthedodger]

What Bawanna said is true, my bad frame was RC0 and my good one is RC1. No rymn nor reason. Just buy it, shoot it, if bad send it back for repair.
Roger

[William_the_kid]

If it's bad, send it back for repair... and send it back for repair... and...

[Bawanna]

If it's bad, send it back for repair... and send it back for repair... and...

Unofficially I think they have a better handle on the problem now and the send it back for repair vicious circle should not be nearly as bad as it has been.

But if it's bad send it back for repair until it's not bad.

[kahrlover123]

My good authority sadly reports that the serial numbers are not sequenced. There is no set of numbers that are bad. Likewise he can't say everything after a certain serial number is good.
What he did say is that if you buy one and it has issues as much as a pain as it is send it in and they will fix it.

I'm sorry there isn't a black and white solid answer here.

"the serial numbers are not sequenced."
I talked to 2 guys at Kahr and they confirmed this as well.
All Kahr guns are not produced with "sequential serial numbers"
Jocko here and few other well known members seems to disagree.
What's the deal?

[kahrlover123]

You won't see me hanging around with Martha Stewart. I have no insider trading info per se.

I have it on good authority that the P380 issue is identified. They have the cure (usually a new frame). I also have it on good authority that the new production 380's have the cure built in and should have no issues.

If you buy one and after the 200 round break in it's still not right, call Kahr. They will cure it.

That's all I know about that.

"I also have it on good authority that the new production 380's have the cure built in and should have no issues."
This is a "tricky" statement.
New production - when and what?
My lady friend and few other members in here just bought the P380 few weeks ago had the "famous issues".
Honestly, if I'm looking to buy a P380 now, I definitely feel like I'm gambling with the money.

[Bawanna]

"I also have it on good authority that the new production 380's have the cure built in and should have no issues."
This is a "tricky" statement.
New production - when and what?
My lady friend and few other members in here just bought the P380 few weeks ago had the "famous issues".
Honestly, if I'm looking to buy a P380 now, I definitely feel like I'm gambling with the money.

It's hard to tell where your new 380's came from, they could have sat at a distributor for some time before you bought them.
Because the serial numbers are not sequential, the guns made next month may have lower serial numbers than yours at least the way it sounds.
Your not gambling with money at all. You are gambling that you might have to give up your new gun for a week or a month or however long it takes but Kahr is behind it and they will fix it. Count on it.
That's a hard thing giving up a new gun. I wouldn't like it much either.

[kahrlover123]

Well, I agree that Kahr stands behind their product but personally, I would not but a gun that 50/50 will be going to Kahr after the first trip to the range.
I'm not sure what other people think but it's just me. I want a gun that I know my first trip is a pleasure, not a disappointment.

[Bawanna]

The ratio is far far less than 50/50. I can assure you of that.

[kahrlover123]

It's cool but I can tell you this much. As a Kahr lover and proud owner of 5 Kahrs in hand, if any of my friends asks me "Should I buy Kahr P380 for conceal carry?". My answer now is "No, they have issues they need to work out. If you do not mind a little bigger one, I recommend the PM9 which I currently carry."
Why do I not recommend the P380?
1) I did once to my lady friend and it was a mistake.
2) I've seen some other friends who run into the similar issues with new P380.
3) Best of all, this site is a living proof of the P380 issues.

[JodyH]

The ratio is far far less than 50/50. I can assure you of that.
I wouldn't bet any cash on that.

Out of 6 Kahrs I've owned since 2001 or so, 3 have gone back for repairs. Some multiple times.
That's 50/50 in my Kahr owning experience.

Mk9, severe slide peening issues. Replaced slide with stainless.
P380, we don't need to beat that dead horse but its back at Kahr... again.
T9, out if spec slide. Been at Kahr since September with no firm date on when ill get it back.

I'd be pissed if the T9 was my one and only gun purchase. $750 spent, went to the range one time. Returned to manufacturer for repairs that take over 2 months to complete.
At least I have a dozen or more other pistols to shoot and the T9 was just a toy. Think about some guy who saved up for a few months to buy his one and only self defense gun and has to go through that crap.

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[WMD]

No arguing that you have had bad luck JodyH. I am sure hoping that Kahr will make it right however.

In terms of Bawanna's 50/50 comment? I would bet cash on that. For two reasons.......

#1
It is a matter of numbers.....
None of us really know how many guns Kahr is shipping every month. I would guess in the thousands. I would not be surprised if Kahr is shipping more guns every month then there are people on this list. That is a ton of guns. A friend of mine used to work at H&R. He told me a while back that they were shipping almost a thousand guns a day. That is a lot of single shot shotguns! :D I would also guess that (on this list) we are seeing only a very small percentage of issues. I believe the clear majority of Kahr owners on this list are not having issues.

#2
I personally know many more people with Kahrs that have had no issues then people with issues. I recently posted my experience shooting a friends brand new 380 (he is on this list and could chime in if desired) and it ran with no issues at all. It was pleasant to shoot and I was quite amazed at the accuracy.

Maybe he just lucked out? I do not know. :confused: I can honestly understand why you feel the way you do, but I would not go so far to say they are only 50/50 good.

Then again, maybe I am the supreme optimist which can be defined as bordering on being a bit naive. :D

Just my 2 cents....

[WMD]

......I would also guess that (on this list) we are seeing only a very small percentage of issues. I believe the clear majority of Kahr owners on this list are not having issues..........



I just reread my submitted post. The above statement needs to be clarified. In reference to the above, what I meant was, guns with issues represent a very small percentage to the total number of guns shipped.

Now you know why I am not a writer! I am going to have to borrow Jocko's typing mittens. Maybe that will help! :D

[JodyH]

The primary reason there aren't more returns is because the vast majority of purchasers probably shoot less than 50 rounds through a gun its entire lifetime.
As a CCW instructor I see far more gun owners than I do shooters. Maybe 1% of my students take their carry gun to the range more than 2 or 3 times a year. Probably 50% of my students have never shot their gun before class.
On a web site like this you'll get a higher percentage of shooters and a better idea of a guns true reliability and durability.

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[MLESa7990]

The primary reason there aren't more returns is because the vast majority of purchasers probably shoot less than 50 rounds through a gun its entire lifetime.
As a CCW instructor I see far more gun owners than I do shooters. Maybe 1% of my students take their carry gun to the range more than 2 or 3 times a year. Probably 50% of my students have never shot their gun before class.
On a web site like this you'll get a higher percentage of shooters and a better idea of a guns true reliability and durability.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


No offense, but I don't think you can base your experience as a ccw instructor on the vast majority of gun owners as a whole.

[Bawanna]

I don't know that jodyh is that far off. I think the majority of gun owners really aren't shooters. I know alot of cops that aren't shooters.

I've met a few that felt ok I bought a gun, now I need to take a class which in some cases is a good thing but I tell them it isn't rocket science, it's mostly common sense. I also know of a few that have guns in their night stand that they have NEVER shot. Don't make sense to me but I get that more and more lately.

[MLESa7990]

Well then, I guess I need to be a bit more opened minded when it comes to the gun owner and shooting community!

[JodyH]

Here's an easy test of my theory.
Go to the range (where people are actually shooting) and tell a dozen people you are trying to sell a Glock 17 with 5000 rounds through it.
I have $20 that says 90% of them will think its worn out. Most will tell you the barrel's probably smooth by now.
The majority of guns purchased are loaded and stuck in a drawer never to be seen again. Guns with round counts in the hundreds are probably less than 5% of the handguns sold.

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[WMD]

The primary reason there aren't more returns is because the vast majority of purchasers probably shoot less than 50 rounds through a gun its entire lifetime.
As a CCW instructor I see far more gun owners than I do shooters. Maybe 1% of my students take their carry gun to the range more than 2 or 3 times a year. Probably 50% of my students have never shot their gun before class.
On a web site like this you'll get a higher percentage of shooters and a better idea of a guns true reliability and durability.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

JodyH, with all due respect, It sounds like you are making assumptions. I think you may be assuming most kahr owners are new shooters. Ask Jocko how many rounds he has through his gun.

[WMD]

I don't know that jodyh is that far off. I think the majority of gun owners really aren't shooters. I know alot of cops that aren't shooters.

I've met a few that felt ok I bought a gun, now I need to take a class which in some cases is a good thing but I tell them it isn't rocket science, it's mostly common sense. I also know of a few that have guns in their night stand that they have NEVER shot. Don't make sense to me but I get that more and more lately.

Hi Bawanna,

There are a whole lot more shooters then there are cops. Been to any one of a gazzilion gun ranges lately? These are not all new shooters and most are not cops. :D

[WMD]

Here's an easy test of my theory.
Go to the range (where people are actually shooting) and tell a dozen people you are trying to sell a Glock 17 with 5000 rounds through it.
I have $20 that says 90% of them will think its worn out. Most will tell you the barrel's probably smooth by now.
The majority of guns purchased are loaded and stuck in a drawer never to be seen again. Guns with round counts in the hundreds are probably less than 5% of the handguns sold.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

That would not happen at the ranges I frequent. But you seem to keep beating the same drum. Manufacturers do have issues with some of their guns. Did you read the post titled Novack Customer Service? S&W and Sig did not fair to well in that thread. It is unfortunate that you have had some issues. It does seem you have had some bad luck. However, IMO if Kahr does not take care of you, then, you have something to complain about. If Kahr send your guns back working flawlessly, would you then be happy?

[Bawanna]

Hi Bawanna,

There are a whole lot more shooters then there are cops. Been to any one of a gazzilion gun ranges lately? These are not all new shooters and most are not cops. :D

I'm not sure the meaning of my post was captured in the way I intended. New shooters didn't even enter my mind. For every 10 bajillion shooters at the range there are 100 bajillion shooters with guns home in their nightstand and that's perfectly ok. It's already usually crowded enough at my ranges and I love to shoot.
This of course has no reflection whatsover on the quality or lack there of of the guns in their nightstands.

I believe the 380 issue is worked out, I really do. While I have zero use for anything 380 I'd love to just buy one and see for myself. But some say I'm an addict for anything that goes bang.

[JodyH]

JodyH, with all due respect, It sounds like you are making assumptions. I think you may be assuming most kahr owners are new shooters. Ask Jocko how many rounds he has through his gun.
No, im stating that the vast majority of handguns (of every brand) sold are seldom if ever shot.
People like Jocko and myself (24k+ rounds a year is my average) are the exception not the norm.
If you shoot 50 rounds a month, you would be an exception as well.
I had over 200 students this year. Getting a ccw permit would pretty much categorize someone as a "serious" gun owner. I can count on one hand the number of students who I would consider an active shooter. The vast majority wont shoot their carry gun until recertification 2 years from now.

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[WMD]

Hey no problemo Bawanna, I am just saying I would not make the assumption the majority of gun owners are not shooters. And quite honestly...., it doesn't really make any difference. :D

[JodyH]

I believe the 380 issue is worked out, I really do. While I have zero use for anything 380 I'd love to just buy one and see for myself. But some say I'm an addict for anything that goes bang.
I'll sell you mine the minute it comes back from Kahr service.
I wont even bother unboxing it, just place a new shipping label on it and send it to your ffl.
Make me an offer...


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[JFootin]

JodyH has a good point. But asking opinions at a range skews the results. As he and Bawanna said, a large percentage of gun owners never fire their guns, and they will never be seen at a shooting range, either. I was that way many, many years ago. Sold some guns that I had owned for months or years without ever firing a single bullet out of them. But thankfully, like a growing number of folks, I have gotten more serious and sensible about keeping the guns and the shooter working right with some regular range time. Never going to shoot more than 10-15% of what Jocko has shot through that PM9 in my whole lifetime, through all my guns. I know that I probably don't do as much range time as most of the posters on this forum, but your participation here shows a high interest in guns and shooting. You are gun lovers, enthusiasts. But you have to remember that you belong to a still small percentage of gun owners. There are still a very large percentage of people who do not own a gun or are opposed to gun ownership. And the majority of gun owners take no more interest in them than they do their vacuum cleaner, never read the instruction manual (for anything), and never fire their guns. Think about it. How many people buy a new car and read the owner's manual or follow the break in instructions? How many of you do? (Why, I've been driving all my life! I don't need no gol-darn instruction manual!) It's human nature. We're not all rocket scientists! :)

[Bawanna]

I'll sell you mine the minute it comes back from Kahr service.
I wont even bother unboxing it, just place a new shipping label on it and send it to your ffl.
Make me an offer...


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This is gonna sound like a cop out or flaky answer but if I had the money I'd take you up on that offer. I'd want to make a reasonable offer and I just don't have the funds, in fact yesterday for the first time in my life I had to renig on an offer to buy that little 64 snubby listed here. Just couldn't make it work.
Otherwise even though I again have no use for a 380 I'd take you up on it. I really would.
Focus on the positive pal, how you gonna feel if you take that thing out of the box and it runs perfectly? Might make up for my total credibility loss on backing out of that deal yesterday if I'm right and it runs. I think it will.

[TriggerMan]

The primary reason there aren't more returns is because the vast majority of purchasers probably shoot less than 50 rounds through a gun its entire lifetime.
As a CCW instructor I see far more gun owners than I do shooters. Maybe 1% of my students take their carry gun to the range more than 2 or 3 times a year. Probably 50% of my students have never shot their gun before class.
On a web site like this you'll get a higher percentage of shooters and a better idea of a guns true reliability and durability.

Sent from my MB860 using TapatalkThose are scary statistics, but I tend to believe you're right. I sold a Ruger LC9 to a friend. I couldn't convince him to shoot it before sticking it in his waistband. I included a crossbreed type holster but he prefers rubber bands on the grip. Thank God, I broke it it in and can say its 100% reliable.

[TriggerMan]

No offense, but I don't think you can base your experience as a ccw instructor on the vast majority of gun owners as a whole.
Why not?, CCW holders are a good cross section of the buying public. Who do you think buys small concealable guns?

[OldLincoln]

RogerDoger and I shot his 380 a week or so ago. It had been back for a replacement frame and had some of the new gun issues. He was working his way through them and the gun was shooting well. I put 4 or 5 mags through it and had one fail to eject. We identified a burr that is likely slowing down the slide action and could be the culprit. All in all we put 75rds or so through it that day and it did fine for a new gun. So it wasn't perfect out of the box. While not good it's becoming a very reliable handgun that shoots very nicely. Anybody serious about carry should be shooting that carry gun a lot to prove it before putting it in their pocket.

Everybody here agrees the 380 has been a problem. They have stood behind them and are doing better. I wish we had a survey of sorts for ALL 380's that are leaving the shop now regarding issues. It's one of those things that they may have fixed the manufacturing problems and once they are the only ones on the shelves we won't hear much about them. I say that the majority of folks buying any gun that works perfectly don't go to the factory website to talk about it.

You can count the 380's with problems here and yes there are more then the other models, but you have to think about how many are being sold to find perspective. Even it they only sold 500 380's per month the reports here are but a very few. I wish just as everybody else does that they could wave their magic wand and all of the problems disappear but they really are trying and as Bawanna said they are getting better.

[JFootin]

Well said, OldBuddy. :yo:

[WMD]

I also agree OldLincon. It seems we keep beating a dead horse. :7: JodyH, let us know how your 380 works when you get it back. In the mean time, lets move forward.... :)

[TriggerMan]

JodyH, with all due respect, It sounds like you are making assumptions. I think you may be assuming most kahr owners are new shooters. Ask Jocko how many rounds he has through his gun.
How many
Jockos are on this forum? Who is in second place?

I know three ccw guys and none has been to the range in three years.

[Bawanna]

How many
Jockos are on this forum? Who is in second place?

I know three ccw guys and none has been to the range in three years.

Do you honestly think this forum could handle more than one Jocko?:eek:

Me thinks not.

I hear of many here going to the range multiple times per week for short sessions. Some weekly.
With my time and funding I try to make it at least once a month but that once is usually extended, usually several hours and hundreds of rounds through numerous guns.
I'd much rather go more frequently and for shorter sessions but the range is an hour away. I long for the day I have my own backyard range like Hickok but the clocks ticking and I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
Then it will just be an issue of powder and bullets. Something to dream about.

[sierrajb]

Do you honestly think this forum could handle more than one Jocko?:eek:

Me thinks not.

I hear of many here going to the range multiple times per week for short sessions. Some weekly.
With my time and funding I try to make it at least once a month but that once is usually extended, usually several hours and hundreds of rounds through numerous guns.
I'd much rather go more frequently and for shorter sessions but the range is an hour away. I long for the day I have my own backyard range like Hickok but the clocks ticking and I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
Then it will just be an issue of powder and bullets. Something to dream about.

I, for one concealed carry owner, try to hit the range every chance I get. It's not only fun, but it's the only way I can be sure that I am "ready" and comfortable with my gun that I carry every day (PM9). It doesn't make much sense to spend 8 hours in a class and spend $140 on the license, etc., buy a gun, but never shoot it at the range on a regular basis. It's like having a driver's license, buying a new car, putting a tarp over it in the driveway, but NEVER driving it. No logic to that at all.

[kahrlover123]

I myself go the the range at least once a week for the following reasons:
1) make sure my carrying piece is as reliable as my life is betting on it.
2) try out different pieces (for a group of friends).

I've known lots of folks do not go the range on a "daily/weekly/yearly basis". Some of them do not go even I tell them I cover the range fee.
I can see that majority of gun owners does not even touch their gun or maybe once at the most.

But personally if I have a gun that gives me problem, it's a gonner.

[jocko]

I won't keep a gun that is not reliable either. If I like the gun I will give it one time back to the factory to get right, after that I am not married to it.

[OldLincoln]

Rumor has it that if it ticks him off, he feeds it to Harley! Grrrrr.....

[jocko]

u know me to well!!

[ltxi]

.............
With my time and funding I try to make it at least once a month but that once is usually extended, usually several hours and hundreds of rounds through numerous guns.
I'd much rather go more frequently and for shorter sessions but the range is an hour away. I long for the day I have my own backyard range like Hickok but the clocks ticking and I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
Then it will just be an issue of powder and bullets. Something to dream about.


Ahhh, this is so x2 for me. Time is my major issue. I'm lucky to be able to get to even the local handgun range more than once a month, on average. I've been trying to quit my job for a few years now and once I manage that....nlt a year and half from now....at 70 as my own drop dead (pi) date....I plan to unlimber many of my long unfired arms and start wasting a whole hell of a lot of my much younger wife's inheritance on ammunition.

[Cokeman]

I myself go the the range at least once a week for the following reasons:
1) make sure my carrying piece is as reliable as my life is betting on it.
2) try out different pieces (for a group of friends).

I've known lots of folks do not go the range on a "daily/weekly/yearly basis". Some of them do not go even I tell them I cover the range fee.
I can see that majority of gun owners does not even touch their gun or maybe once at the most.

But personally if I have a gun that gives me problem, it's a gonner.

And then you spend weeks badmouthing it on that manufacturers forum?

[Bawanna]

Easy.

[Tap]

I am the OP, and after putting Bawanna on the spot, he did his best to answer what I had asked.
Many of you are using this thread to further you own anger and not sticking to the subject at hand.
I was in manufacturing for most of my life, so I find it very hard to swallow that Kahr keeps serial numbers in a way so as not to be able to give us the info asked for. However I think Bawanna is a straight shooter and is telling what he is being told.
NOW please get back to the subject at hand. I want info not hate.!!

[jocko]

bawanna is definitely a straight shooter. not even worth discussing that part of the fella. Now a twit maybe ---!!!!

[jocko]

"the serial numbers are not sequenced."
I talked to 2 guys at Kahr and they confirmed this as well.
All Kahr guns are not produced with "sequential serial numbers"
Jocko here and few other well known members seems to disagree.
What's the deal?

but if we go back to the recall of the PM9 barrels back in 05, they were recalling VA0003-9999 and VB 0004 0999, now if that does not at least indicate a sequence of numbers, then I don't know what is,

I guess for me there is no reason not to have sequence numbers, so much easier to track than random serial numbers in case of a recall. that is normally how companies track things and sequencial numbering is used alot in the industry. If kahr has made a change then they made a change and we have no way of knowing anything otherwise. I have thoughts on why they are telling owners that they don't use sequence but I will keep that to myself,as I cannot prove it one way or the other

If one looks at the pattern Kahr sets with their serial numnbers it seems to me like it starts out with like VA0001 and stops and 9999 (meaning 10k made, then it starts anew with VB 0001- and ending at 9999, and then anew again starting with VC etc etc. This is exactly what they did witht he recall of barrels in 05 stated above. My P380 is one of the first 150 made, I know it is not a new frame, and personally I don't care right now either. The gun has been back once and since, so I am not worrying one bit about what I might thinka bout "should I have a new frame because every one else is to. We know kahr has many thousands of P380 out there prior to any frame change thing,, and most all are in good working order to. IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON;'T FIX IT. I will also bet we are going to see new P380 today with the new frame change over that gives issues, so THEN WHAT??? I think we have even seen that on this forum. If ur P380 works fine, leave the damn thing alone, if it doesn't send it back and let kahr do what they need to do to make it right..

Jocko theory is just that to, nothing to hang ur hat on, just trying to submit some logic to my thoughts and from being in the sales industry myself for over 40 years...

[JFootin]

We appreciate your wisdom, Jocko. And your humor! :D

[Bawanna]

I am the OP, and after putting Bawanna on the spot, he did his best to answer what I had asked.
Many of you are using this thread to further you own anger and not sticking to the subject at hand.
I was in manufacturing for most of my life, so I find it very hard to swallow that Kahr keeps serial numbers in a way so as not to be able to give us the info asked for. However I think Bawanna is a straight shooter and is telling what he is being told.
NOW please get back to the subject at hand. I want info not hate.!!

Thank you very much Tap. I may not have much but I do have my honesty and integrity. Although I do feel lower than pond scum, I told taxfolia I would buy his gun and then had to back out. That will haunt me for a long time. That just ain't right. You are indeed correct in that I was sharing what I was told and also in your thinking on manufacturing. I'm sure there are lots of things we'd like insider information on that we just aren't gonna get.
I guess we can console ourselves with the fact that Kahr will stand behind their product and make it right. As stated a million times it might be a pain to have to send it back but they will fix it until it's right for you if you let them.

[rogerthedodger]

I do believe Bawanna is right, because the serial# on my new frame was not in the range of some of the other new frames issued. Also, because it is a Cali version aka mag disconnect and LCI, they may be using different serial#(but still not sequential) for this version. Now, lets move on to another thread/topic.
Roger