NObama at it again.

[Chief Joseph]

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/11/16/obama-pushing-shooters-off-public-lands

Anyone who believes they can be a democRAT AND pro 2nd Amendment, you can't. Everything with the left is con.

[recoilguy]

There is nothing good that can be said about the person that our voters elected as our president. Nothing. This just adds to the watch what he does when you aren't looking not what he says list.

RCG

[WMD]

There is nothing good that can be said about the person that our voters elected as our president. Nothing. This just adds to the watch what he does when you aren't looking not what he says list.

RCG

+1 !!!

[Popeye]

There is nothing good that can be said about the person that our voters elected as our president. Nothing. This just adds to the watch what he does when you aren't looking not what he says list.

RCG
+2 That Empty Suit sickens me. I really hope the Sheeple have opened there eyes and have had enough of Bo's hope and change.

[tv_racin_fan]

Nearly every PUBLIC piece of land that people used to shoot on has been ruined by the guys who shoot glass bottles and TVs and all sorts of other junk that they conveniently leave at the scene. Someone set up some "ranges" on WMA lands around here and they were trashed until they were forced to have range officers. Some guys even made a video and put it on youtube of them trashing a range.

[John222]

The department oversees almost 250 million acres of public land. I don't see a problem with restricting a few millions acres for "non gun" recreational use. It's public land and they pay taxes for it also. Who would blame them for not wanting to get hit by a stray bullet from some Knucklehead. While all of us here are serious rational adult gun owners, you have to keep in mind that there are also a lot of idiots with guns.

[yqtszhj]

Nearly every PUBLIC piece of land that people used to shoot on has been ruined by the guys who shoot glass bottles and TVs and all sorts of other junk that they conveniently leave at the scene. Someone set up some "ranges" on WMA lands around here and they were trashed until they were forced to have range officers. Some guys even made a video and put it on youtube of them trashing a range.

Agreed. Take your targets you are shooting at with you when you leave and don't leave a mess, unless you want to pick up your brass and leave it nicely in a box for someone that reloads.

Same thing happens here in your neighbor state next door. Drives me nuts.

[Chief Joseph]

Nearly every PUBLIC piece of land that people used to shoot on has been ruined by the guys who shoot glass bottles and TVs and all sorts of other junk that they conveniently leave at the scene. Someone set up some "ranges" on WMA lands around here and they were trashed until they were forced to have range officers. Some guys even made a video and put it on youtube of them trashing a range.

That's funny, nearly every park right now is being ruined by nobamas scummy occupiers, yet he's not banning them, he's supporting them. That's also the same argument used by anti gun nuts when they want to ban ALL of us from having them, you know, because OTHER irresponsible gun owners did something wrong, ALL guns should be banned. I suppose you support that too?

[yqtszhj]

That's funny, nearly every park right now is being ruined by nobamas scummy occupiers, yet he's not banning them, he's supporting them. That's also the same argument used by anti gun nuts when they want to ban ALL of us from having them, you know, because OTHER irresponsible gun owners did something wrong, ALL guns should be banned. I suppose you support that too?

It's 2 different topics. Don't confuse the 2. One is public shooting areas should be allowed, period. The occupiers are at locations where they can get attention, not where folks are shooting. Dog walkers and hikers should accept us as we accept them. Also people need to clean up their mess at public shooting areas where racin fan and I are talking about. We set a bad example if we leave a mess. That's what it's about.

Also the guy that is in office now is just a show. Just wanted to set that straight too.

[Chief Joseph]

It's 2 different topics. Don't confuse the 2. One is public shooting areas should be allowed, period. The occupiers are at locations where they can get attention, not where folks are shooting. Dog walkers and hikers should accept us as we accept them. Also people need to clean up their mess at public shooting areas where racin fan and I are talking about. We set a bad example if we leave a mess. That's what it's about.

Also the guy that is in office now is just a show. Just wanted to set that straight too.

It's not 2 different topics, the inference was banning shooting on public lands due to misuse of the land by the few, that's exactly what I was talking about. If you support banning lands because of that, then taking that same argument of banning something due to the actions of the irresponsible few, arguing not losing your gun rights because of the actions of the irresponsible few gun owners, you're being hypocritical. And also, using that same "leaving a mess" argument, be prepared for THAT to be a reason to ban hunting some day. The slippery slope is alive and well, especially when those who should see it, can't.

[Markis82]

It's not 2 different topics, the inference was banning shooting on public lands due to misuse of the land by the few, that's exactly what I was talking about. If you support banning lands because of that, then taking that same argument of banning something due to the actions of the irresponsible few, arguing not losing your gun rights because of the actions of the irresponsible few gun owners, you're being hypocritical. And also, using that same "leaving a mess" argument, be prepared for THAT to be a reason to ban hunting some day. The slippery slope is alive and well, especially when those who should see it, can't.Par - A - Noid

[TheTman]

Hunters/Shooters actually win one!



BLM Retracts Draft Shooting Sports Policy


Sportsmen’s Voice Heard By Administration
November 23, 2011 - Washington, DC: Safari Club International has just learned that the Secretary of the Department of the Interior has instructed the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) to cease from implementing their Draft Shooting Sports Policy. The BLM’s Draft Shooting Sports Policy was roundly criticized by the hunting community because it indicated that BLM believes sport shooting is not compatible with changing demographics and wants to prioritize "urbanites" over long-time users. SCI members can view the Secretary’s memorandum attached to this email.
SCI would like to thank the hundreds of members who graciously donated to the Hunter Defense Fund. Through your contributions, SCI was able to continue applying political pressure on the BLM to retract their anti-sport shooting policy. SCI hopes that a pro-shooting policy can be adopted that will facilitate improved shooting opportunities across the 245 million acres administered by the BLM.

[Chief Joseph]

Par - A - Noid

Over-ton-Window

[Markis82]

Over-ton-WindowWritten by a Loon - A - Tic!

[yqtszhj]

Where's Bawanna with his Police whistle ??? :D

Just having fun. Let's all play nice.

[Chief Joseph]

Written by a Loon - A - Tic!

No, you're thinking of the current president.

[ltxi]

Where's Bawanna with his Police whistle ??? :D

Just having fun. Let's all play nice.

x2..

[whitemule]

Didn't President Obama sign an executive order allowing concealed carry by state permittees in National Parks?

[ltxi]

Yes, but it was an attachment to legacy Bush administration legislation that needed to be signed off on.

[John222]

Yes, but it was an attachment to legacy Bush administration legislation that needed to be signed off on.


So? He did it.

[vn6869]

What I find interesting, is these "regulations", etc are the actions of different agencies under NObama, not directly taken of done by him.
Hence, he has plausible deniability come election time. :eek:

[ltxi]

So? He did it.

Given a choice, he wouldn't have. It was a minor amendment to must pass legislation. It's called political reality.

[John222]

Your just assuming that he would not have allowed it....

The guys doing a good job in a terrible situation left by another administration. People need to stop believing all that right wing propaganda that's dispensed to our mail boxes faster than it can be deleted. That stuff comes from political action committee's with an agenda. If the facts are checked, you will only find a mustard seed of truth surrounded by a pack of lies and distortions of the truth.

By the way, lots of us democrats are gun owners. Generally we are just out numbered on these forums and since it's difficult to argue with propaganda, we just stay quiet.

[Bill K]

I suggest we work to re-elect President Obama and vote in a Democratic super majority in both the House and the Senate. This way we'd know in short order what the President really thinks about gun control. :) Joking aside, I've read that he, the President, does believe that the 2nd Amendment confers an individual right BUT that the community has the right to make laws and statutes that supercede (sp) individual rights for the good of the community - not the exact wording but that is the jist of what I remember reading. Gun control vs. gun rights is one of those areas where the matter of degree is the real issue.

[Markis82]

Your just assuming that he would not have allowed it....

The guys doing a good job in a terrible situation left by another administration. People need to stop believing all that right wing propaganda that's dispensed to our mail boxes faster than it can be deleted. That stuff comes from political action committee's with an agenda. If the facts are checked, you will only find a mustard seed of truth surrounded by a pack of lies and distortions of the truth.

By the way, lots of us democrats are gun owners. Generally we are just out numbered on these forums and since it's difficult to argue with propaganda, we just stay quiet.+1.

[tv_racin_fan]

Your just assuming that he would not have allowed it....

I am for sure, but I would call it an educated assumption based on his voting record.

The guys doing a good job in a terrible situation left by another administration. People need to stop believing all that right wing propaganda that's dispensed to our mail boxes faster than it can be deleted.
And the left wing propaganda?

That stuff comes from political action committee's with an agenda. If the facts are checked, you will only find a mustard seed of truth surrounded by a pack of lies and distortions of the truth.

Both sides of the aisle are as guilty as the other.

By the way, lots of us democrats are gun owners. Generally we are just out numbered on these forums and since it's difficult to argue with propaganda, we just stay quiet.

Propaganda you say?

Did you bother to read his website before he was elected? You do know that he wants to reinstate the AWB right? You do know that there is a new AWB in the works and it bans all semi autos that require a magazine, RIGHT? You do know that he wants to recind the Tiahrt amendment don't you? You do know that he voted against a bill in Illinois that would allow someone to use a firearm in defence of their life in their own home... RIGHT?

Is all of that propaganda to you sir?

I used to chat and there was this guy I was somewhat friendly with. He is a staunch democrat yet a gun owner too. When I tried asked him had he bothered to read the website I found he hadn't. Then after reading it it didn't mean anything to him because he said no gun control stuff would ever get thru congress again since the disaster of the AWB. But then he doesn't think anyone should be able to own whatever firearm one wants.. course he was proud of his preban Beretta with the preban large capacity magazines and would have no problem with them both being banned again since he already had his...

[yqtszhj]

I should not get into this one but I'll just post some generic statements that apply to ALL politicans (BOTH major parties in the USA and across the globe):

*They will all lie to us
*They tell us what we want to hear to get our vote
*They like to hear their self talk
*they like being on TV and getting attention because the love their self most of all.
*They like power
*If they go in with good intentions they will be corrupted in time
*They hide the truth from the public
*They use their power to get what they want
*They will cheat to get their desires
*They are not as smart as people think they are. They are just good actors.

The freshman TEA party folks that got elected probably have good intentions but if they stay around they will become a problem too.

The only thing that will fix this is term limits because even though all politicans are "bad" our person is the only good one and we tend not to vote them out. Also the incumbent gets too much re-election money as the person currently in office and unless they do something really bad, the person running against them doesn't stand a chance. We have to study who we are voting for and keep an eye on them once they get into office.

Well, that my opinion..... everyone has a right to their own in this GREAT country, and I really do mean we have a Great country. Best in the world.

[John222]

I should not get into this one but I'll just post some generic statements that apply to ALL politicans (BOTH major parties in the USA and across the globe):

*They will all lie to us
*They tell us what we want to hear to get our vote
*They like to hear their self talk
*they like being on TV and getting attention because the love their self most of all.
*They like power
*If they go in with good intentions they will be corrupted in time
*They hide the truth from the public
*They use their power to get what they want
*They will cheat to get their desires
*They are not as smart as people think they are. They are just good actors.

The freshman TEA party folks that got elected probably have good intentions but if they stay around they will become a problem too.

The only thing that will fix this is term limits because even though all politicans are "bad" our person is the only good one and we tend not to vote them out. Also the incumbent gets too much re-election money as the person currently in office and unless they do something really bad, the person running against them doesn't stand a chance. We have to study who we are voting for and keep an eye on them once they get into office.

Well, that my opinion..... everyone has a right to their own in this GREAT country, and I really do mean we have a Great country. Best in the world.


I agree. Look at all the flip flopping going on in the republican primary. You don't know what any of them believe in. They just want to get elected.

I don't care for the tea party though. Our congress was designed and built upon compromise. It's the only way all groups can have a say. I think it was said once, "if left to the majority, the minority would have no rights at all". And by minority I don't only mean race, but rural vs. urban dwellers and rich vs poor. The tea party lock step march to block everything is anti american.

[Bill K]

Whether on the right or the left or even in the middle many of us have positions, values, principals, morals and such on which we will not compromise.

[yqtszhj]

Whether on the right or the left or even in the middle many of us have positions, values, principals, morals and such on which we will not compromise.

Well said. Guess that's why we're typing here and aren't in Washington :D It's what makes us and our country great. One other thing that makes us great is we can have our differences of opinion, but as soon as an outsider (terrorist) try's to take advantage of our country we tend to join together to fight against them for the benefit of us all.

[yqtszhj]

I agree. Look at all the flip flopping going on in the republican primary. You don't know what any of them believe in. They just want to get elected.

I don't care for the tea party though. Our congress was designed and built upon compromise. It's the only way all groups can have a say. I think it was said once, "if left to the majority, the minority would have no rights at all". And by minority I don't only mean race, but rural vs. urban dwellers and rich vs poor. The tea party lock step march to block everything is anti american.

I figure that the TEA party folks got elected as part of a "rebellion" by the people to make a point to the Washington weenies. A little rebellion is a good thing I think. It got their attention anyway. I don't figure the movement will make it long term. I could be wrong.

Good point about the majority and minority. It's good we are a Republic and not just a democracy. I like a saying I saw. Someone may have it on here as a signature line. It goes something like a democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for lunch. A Republic is a well armed sheep contesting the vote. Freedom and rights are for everyone.

[ltxi]

Your just assuming that he would not have allowed it....

The guys doing a good job in a terrible situation left by another administration. People need to stop believing all that right wing propaganda that's dispensed to our mail boxes faster than it can be deleted. That stuff comes from political action committee's with an agenda. If the facts are checked, you will only find a mustard seed of truth surrounded by a pack of lies and distortions of the truth.

By the way, lots of us democrats are gun owners. Generally we are just out numbered on these forums and since it's difficult to argue with propaganda, we just stay quiet.

You're correct, it is an assumption on my part based on his record and background as an Illinois democrat. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

As to the rest of your post, I quite agree; aside from the part about Obama's doing a good job. I do think he's been trying, but he kinda jumped into the deep end of the pool without realizing he really didn't know how to swim with the sharks. I'm more disturbed with congress in general than with Obama...especially the republican party. All I see in DC, where I'm unfortunately going to get to spend the next couple of weeks, right now is the u&c self serving maneuvering, bickering, greedy posturing, and back stabbing on steroids...taken to much higher level than normal and with with much less respect or regard for the Nation's problems and/or the People these folk allegedly serve.

Hey, it's Saturday night and I'm off the professional, pc political clock. One more beer and I probably would have lapsed into pr*f*n*ty.

[tv_racin_fan]

John 22 I don't recall the democrats in congress compromising with the republicans and Bush on drilling offshore or ANWR. I do however recall democrats and republicans compromising on the so called Bush Tax cuts claiming they would reduce or not increase spending to go along with them... turns out they cut the heart out of the economy friendly tax cuts and increased spending quite a bit. Gotta love how the democrats who compromised and voted for the tax cuts and then the spending increases like to blame Bush for the increased spending.

Compromise goes both ways.

Funny how democrats wont compromise and vote on any sort of cutting bill without some tax increase, republicans wont vote an a bill that has much in the way of tax increases. YET the sheeple blame the republicans for not compromising. Tit for tat.


Did you know that every single politician who told you that Social Security was an entitlement because you had paid into the system LIED TO YOU! Tis easy to find just google social security and go check the Supreme Court cases on constitutionality. Turns out you aint been paying into the system you been paying a simple tax and the funds generated go directly into the general fund and can not be earmarked for any purpose before doing so. Yet politicians from both sides tell the lie and some claim they can FIX it.

I find it funny that people think this isn't how congress is supposed to function. Go study some history for gosh sake. Arron Burr/Alexander Hamilton ring a bell? They used to know how to filibuster, now they just claim that the other side might or did but they don't actually follow thru.

Many of our beloved founding fathers said some very pretty stuff then proceeded to poke us in the rear and the current crop of politicians is no different in that regard.

Whiskey Rebellion anyone?

Didn't the founding fathers warn us against a standing army. Now why did many of those same gentleman vote to start a standing army just a few short years later? Perhaps it was because they neglected to pay the fine upstanding gentleman who went to war to wrest the colony away from the English and those same upstanding gentleman and many others who had heard that that happened didn't answer the call when the militias were called to defend the Capitol during The War of 1812 and the White House was burned to the ground.

[John222]

John 22 I don't recall the democrats in congress compromising with the republicans and Bush on drilling offshore or ANWR. I do however recall democrats and republicans compromising on the so called Bush Tax cuts claiming they would reduce or not increase spending to go along with them... turns out they cut the heart out of the economy friendly tax cuts and increased spending quite a bit. Gotta love how the democrats who compromised and voted for the tax cuts and then the spending increases like to blame Bush for the increased spending.

Compromise goes both ways.

Funny how democrats wont compromise and vote on any sort of cutting bill without some tax increase, republicans wont vote an a bill that has much in the way of tax increases. YET the sheeple blame the republicans for not compromising. Tit for tat.


Did you know that every single politician who told you that Social Security was an entitlement because you had paid into the system LIED TO YOU! Tis easy to find just google social security and go check the Supreme Court cases on constitutionality. Turns out you aint been paying into the system you been paying a simple tax and the funds generated go directly into the general fund and can not be earmarked for any purpose before doing so. Yet politicians from both sides tell the lie and some claim they can FIX it.

I find it funny that people think this isn't how congress is supposed to function. Go study some history for gosh sake. Arron Burr/Alexander Hamilton ring a bell? They used to know how to filibuster, now they just claim that the other side might or did but they don't actually follow thru.

Many of our beloved founding fathers said some very pretty stuff then proceeded to poke us in the rear and the current crop of politicians is no different in that regard.

Whiskey Rebellion anyone?

Didn't the founding fathers warn us against a standing army. Now why did many of those same gentleman vote to start a standing army just a few short years later? Perhaps it was because they neglected to pay the fine upstanding gentleman who went to war to wrest the colony away from the English and those same upstanding gentleman and many others who had heard that that happened didn't answer the call when the militias were called to defend the Capitol during The War of 1812 and the White House was burned to the ground.


The president put forth a 4 trillion budget deal with Boehner that was making the democratic party furious because of cuts to entitlement programs. But Boehner had to walk away because the republicans wouldn't give an inch. Not even an single inch to accomplish so much.

Personally, they just don't want the president to accomplish anything or get credit for anything. From day one, they were planning the next election cycle. Heck, the healthcare plan they demonize so much was a republican proposed plan.

[Bill K]

I really do fear that [for a time] the best days of our nation are behind us. I hope our fall is more like that of say Great Britain then that of Rome.

[Markis82]

Personally, they just don't want the president to accomplish anything or get credit for anything. From day one, they were planning the next election cycle. Heck, the healthcare plan they demonize so much was a republican proposed plan.+1.

[MikeyKahr]

I really do fear that [for a time] the best days of our nation are behind us. I hope our fall is more like that of say Great Britain then that of Rome.

I'm with you Bill K. It's not fear that I feel though but a sadness for how far things have gone and how far they may still go.

Sent using Tapatalk

[yqtszhj]

Plan for the worst and hope for the best and it will all work out I figure. At least if you plan you'll be ahead of about 50% of everyone anyway long term since I figure 50% of the people have no long term plan at all.

[ltxi]

I really do fear that [for a time] the best days of our nation are behind us. I hope our fall is more like that of say Great Britain then that of Rome.

Agree also, on both counts.

[tv_racin_fan]

The president put forth a 4 trillion budget deal with Boehner that was making the democratic party furious because of cuts to entitlement programs. But Boehner had to walk away because the republicans wouldn't give an inch. Not even an single inch to accomplish so much.

Personally, they just don't want the president to accomplish anything or get credit for anything. From day one, they were planning the next election cycle. Heck, the healthcare plan they demonize so much was a republican proposed plan.

Did you actually see any specifics on that deal? The only specifics I saw on it was the tax increase. What I understand is the democrats want tax increases NOW for spending cuts that come under some other congress, ever see one congress dictate what another can and or will do?

I agree the republicans don't want to see the democrats get anything done.. the same as the democrats didn't want the republicans getting anything done.

And that healthcare plan may have been proposed by a republican but it was also rejected by republicans.

I would have no issue with a national healthcare plan that is funded by everyone. MY issue with what the democrats proposed is the part about only those making over $200-$250K get a tax increase to pay for it. I don't know of a national healthcare plan anywhere on earth that is paid for only by the well off. The UK system isn't, the French system isn't the Canadian system isn't. Did you write your congress critter and ask him why his party did not offer such a system since they lauded them so much?

[TriggerMan]

That's funny, nearly every park right now is being ruined by nobamas scummy occupiers, yet he's not banning them, he's supporting them. That's also the same argument used by anti gun nuts when they want to ban ALL of us from having them, you know, because OTHER irresponsible gun owners did something wrong, ALL guns should be banned. I suppose you support that too?

Chief, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, What you're not entitled to is creating your own facts.

Counting small and large, State and Federal, private and public, there are probably half a million parks. So, a dozen are being used by people you don't agree with and you deem it "nearly every park". Bit of a stretch there.

As a bigger FYI, the Department of Interior rescinded this proposal. Translated: "They ain't doing it".

[yqtszhj]

Both parties have got us in trouble, Neither party will tell us that we actually are in big financial trouble, and neither party has the guts to do what we really need to do to get out of it. I would like to see at least 2 dollars of immediate spending cuts for every immediate dollar tax increase we face. I don't want to here a 10 year savings because we don't know where we will be in 10 years. We can't run out households like that all the time so why should the government try it.

On the healthcare thing, we don't want a Canadian or UK type program. I have in-laws in both countries and I tell you they are at best like our medicaid coverage and at worst negligent. I know there are those who struggle here in the US but the UK can't afford the overall quality of the healthcare system our country has.

[Chief Joseph]

Chief, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, What you're not entitled to is creating your own facts.

Counting small and large, State and Federal, private and public, there are probably half a million parks. So, a dozen are being used by people you don't agree with and you deem it "nearly every park". Bit of a stretch there.

As a bigger FYI, the Department of Interior rescinded this proposal. Translated: "They ain't doing it".

The only "bit of a stretch" I see is your use of the word "use" to describe what these occupy losers are doing to these parks. Well then, I guess destroying these few parks, the murders, rapes, drug use, assaults, illegal camping, ALL of it is ok then, just so long as YOU agree with them. Because we all know that for anyone who's NOT a communist protester, they'd be arrested for it. It's nice to see the laws applied equally across the board, Tea Party protesters respect the law and still get audited while the communist protestors get away with breaking every law, with full support of the local leftist politicians.

[Markis82]

The only "bit of a stretch" I see is your use of the word "use" to describe what these occupy losers are doing to these parks. Well then, I guess destroying these few parks, the murders, rapes, drug use, assaults, illegal camping, ALL of it is ok then, just so long as YOU agree with them. Because we all know that for anyone who's NOT a communist protester, they'd be arrested for it. It's nice to see the laws applied equally across the board, Tea Party protesters respect the law and still get audited while the communist protestors get away with breaking every law, with full support of the local leftist politicians.I see. So, it is just fine with you the muti million dollar companies and individuals pay less in taxes per dollar earned than you. It is just fine with you that Corporate America gut unions and pays the working man as little and with the least amout of benefits as they can. It is just fine with you to take away your social security and medicare that your have paid into all your working life like a bank account, away. It is just fine with you that deregulation has made it possible for companies like BP to put dollars over people and cut corners endangering all of us. It is just fine with you that the CEO of Verizon makes more in 1 day than that companies average employee makes his/her whole life. It is just fine with you that companies are pulling their retired and soon to be retired employees pensions while at the same time handing out 6 and 7 figure bonuses to the executives. It is just fine with you.

[Chief Joseph]

I see. So, it is just fine with you the muti million dollar companies and individuals pay less in taxes per dollar earned than you. It is just fine with you that Corporate America gut unions and pays the working man as little and with the least amout of benefits as they can. It is just fine with you to take away your social security and medicare that your have paid into all your working life like a bank account, away. It is just fine with you that deregulation has made it possible for companies like BP to put dollars over people and cut corners endangering all of us. It is just fine with you that the CEO of Verizon makes more in 1 day than that companies average employee makes his/her whole life. It is just fine with you that companies are pulling their retired and soon to be retired employees pensions while at the same time handing out 6 and 7 figure bonuses to the executives. It is just fine with you.

What private companies pay their people is their business and none of yours and here in oregon it's not business that are the biggest political donators, it's unions. It is fine with me to get the government out of peoples business and people take responsibility for themselves. The economics of jealousy isn't going to make you or anyone else wealthier. If shareholders choose to allow executives to have golden parachutes it's their business, not the governments and definitely not yours. Once people like you get their way to take from the "rich" the only thing left is the definition of WHO is rich, eventually it will get to you too, and I'm sure you'll scream bloody murder when it's YOUR money their taking for the "common" good. And I'll take corporate America over bolshevik unions any day of the week. If you, or anyone doesn't like what you're making, quit, get a new job, or god forbid, start your own company and actually see how hard it is to make a buck, even without a money grubbing union stealing it all.

[O'Dell]

I see. So, it is just fine with you the muti million dollar companies and individuals pay less in taxes per dollar earned than you. It is just fine with you that Corporate America gut unions and pays the working man as little and with the least amout of benefits as they can. It is just fine with you to take away your social security and medicare that your have paid into all your working life like a bank account, away. It is just fine with you that deregulation has made it possible for companies like BP to put dollars over people and cut corners endangering all of us. It is just fine with you that the CEO of Verizon makes more in 1 day than that companies average employee makes his/her whole life. It is just fine with you that companies are pulling their retired and soon to be retired employees pensions while at the same time handing out 6 and 7 figure bonuses to the executives. It is just fine with you.

Yep!

[whitemule]

The president put forth a 4 trillion budget deal with Boehner that was making the democratic party furious because of cuts to entitlement programs. But Boehner had to walk away because the republicans wouldn't give an inch. Not even an single inch to accomplish so much.

Personally, they just don't want the president to accomplish anything or get credit for anything. From day one, they were planning the next election cycle. Heck, the healthcare plan they demonize so much was a republican proposed plan.
+1+ !!!!

[Markis82]

What private companies pay their people is their business and none of yours and here in oregon it's not business that are the biggest political donators, it's unions. It is fine with me to get the government out of peoples business and people take responsibility for themselves. The economics of jealousy isn't going to make you or anyone else wealthier. If shareholders choose to allow executives to have golden parachutes it's their business, not the governments and definitely not yours. Once people like you get their way to take from the "rich" the only thing left is the definition of WHO is rich, eventually it will get to you too, and I'm sure you'll scream bloody murder when it's YOUR money their taking for the "common" good. And I'll take corporate America over bolshevik unions any day of the week. If you, or anyone doesn't like what you're making, quit, get a new job, or god forbid, start your own company and actually see how hard it is to make a buck, even without a money grubbing union stealing it all.You're Mr. Selfless and not bitter at all! That attitude sickens me!! If you and others really believe that then yes as the statement was made earlier, "I really do fear that [for a time] the best days of our nation are behind us. I hope our fall is more like that of say Great Britain then that of Rome." For your information I started working full time while still in high school and have owned 3 successful businesses, which I started from the ground up. I know exactly what it is like to pay into the system, payroll taxes, matching my employees social security payments, sales tax, etc... This is the price we all must pay to live in a society. It is our responsibility. "Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members ; the last, the least, the littlest." ~ Churchill, Pope John Paul II, Ghandi, Dostoyevsky, Truman, etc.

Matthew 25:41-46
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I never quote the bible. However, I thought putting it in terms that you're familiar with, might "Help you see the light."

[Chief Joseph]

You're Mr. Selfless and not bitter at all! That attitude sickens me!! If you and others really believe that then yes as the statement was made earlier, "I really do fear that [for a time] the best days of our nation are behind us. I hope our fall is more like that of say Great Britain then that of Rome." For your information I started working full time while still in high school and have owned 3 successful businesses, which I started from the ground up. I know exactly what it is like to pay into the system, payroll taxes, matching my employees social security payments, sales tax, etc... This is the price we all must pay to live in a society. It is our responsibility. "Any society, any nation, is judged on the basis of how it treats its weakest members ; the last, the least, the littlest." ~ Churchill, Pope John Paul II, Ghandi, Dostoyevsky, Truman, etc.

Matthew 25:41-46
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I never quote the bible. However, I thought putting it in terms that you're familiar with, might "Help you see the light."

I believe in CHARITY, not handouts with nothing required in return. Perpetual welfare with NOTHING required in return is NOT charity, it's the end of our country. cloward-piven, the destruction of capitalism through the UNSUSTAINABLE growth of social handouts, it's what's collapsing europe right now and what will destroy us. Fine, you want to give the government all your money and call it your "responsibility" go ahead, no one is stopping you. I supposedly live in a FREE country where my money I earned I can keep or give to charity as I see fit, not public employee unions or auto unions or illegal aliens or drug addicts or women who have 15 kids and demand the government pay for her kids. Quote the bible all you want, even religions will not perpetually pay for people without expecting labor and/or responsible actions in return. My family survived 70 years ago by picking fruit, now Americans won't even touch it, it's not good enough for them. All because the government pays them to sit at home and have kids like pez dispensers. It's your socialist attitude that sickens me and it's THAT that caused this countries best day to be behind us.

[Bawanna]

Sorry fellas but this ones blowing up my ugly meter. Gonna shut it down.
Start fresh, don't do me ugly.