CM9 on the way, gotta load up some ammo

[dirtengineer]

Hi All! Just traded my Kel-tec P11 and P32 in on a CM9 - it should be here next week. This is my first Kahr. I am an avid reloader and wanted to ask the group a few questions:

1. Any favorite pet loads using quality expanding bullets?

2. What OAL does the CM9 like?

3. Does anyone have a good load for the 124 grain Remington Golden Saber in the CM9?

4. Does anyone have a good load for the 124 grain Rainier FP in the CM9?

I tend to use Accurate #2 or Win231 in 9mm.

[guido4198]

I'll jump in and offer a few answers based on my own experience with my CM9.
1. The only expanding bullet reloads I've fired were Hornady 115 JHP bullets. The load I've used in all my 9mm handguns is 4.6 gns Bullseye, CCI500 primer. OAL is 1.09. This load has functioned flawlessly in my CM9.

2. Cartridge overall length: I've run a variety of lengths through my little Kahr. I have some old S&W 90gn. JHP's that have always been my "short length" test rounds. They mic. 1.015". If a pistol feeds them, it'll handle about anything. My CM9 feeds and functions them just fine. At the other end....European military FMJ's @ 1.15 also work perfectly well.

3.&4. Can't help you with 124 reloading. Never bought any 124 bullets.

On the factory ammo front for personal defense, I picked up a box of Federal 124 gn "HST" JHP's. They also function flawlessly through my CM9. Recoil is stout, but very manageable in the little gun. I'll buy some quality defensive 115's next for comparison, but for now...the 124 Federals are fine.

[Thunder71]

My Kahr's love Winchester ammo... I use it for both range and defense. Winchester white box for the range and PDX1 Bonded for defense.

0 nose dives since switching to this ammo, hand racked or otherwise.

[Charlie98]

I haven't reloaded for the 9 in years, but just got a CW9, so I'll proabably be reloading for it soon enough.

As far as factory, I fired some Hornady 147grn TAP (XTP bullet) JHP's through it without nary a hiccup, and they are pretty long.

I always used Unique in my 9mm loads, but everyone seems to think Power Pistol is the perfect powder for the 9mm. I don't know if W231 would give you the velocity you might be looking for, I can't seem to get my .380 and .45ACP loads as fast with W231 as I do with Unique.

[Ikeo74]

Before you load up a large amount of ammo take a note, a new CM9 won't like light loads. Light loads will cause failure to eject. So keep your new reloads near max until the gun is broken in. I have been using 115 gr Berrys jacketed round nose with 4.9 of 231. With 124 gr bullets I would cut that back some, probably 4.7 gr of 231 The OAL with Berrys 115 gr round nose I use is 1.125 which runs very well. I loaded 100 rounds of lighter stuff that wouldn't eject and had to set it aside, hoping it will run after break in. Otherwise I might have to pull them or give them to someone that has a weaker spring gun.

[guido4198]

For a cast bullet 9mm load, I have a .30 cal ammo can full of the following:
Lyman 356402 bullet, cast hard which drops it out of the mould @ 115-116 gns. 3.8 gns Bullseye, CCI 500 primer. COL: 1.10.

This has been an excellent round for years for me in my Browning Hi-Power.
When I got my CM9, I tried a few of them right away to establish a baseline( second magazine in a new pistol)...and experienced predictable "ammo-power related" failures. During that first range session, I went on to fire something like 175 rounds or so of various jacketed factory 9mm rounds. At the end of that session, I reloaded a magazine with my cast rounds and had no failures.
Point is...there is DEFINITELY a "Break-in" phenomenon with the CM9.
Last Sunday, second range session with my new CM9....those cast loads functioned flawlessly.

[dirtengineer]

Thanks for all the input. Seems like it is a real challenge to find load data for Remington golden sabers. I am surprised that only one person has a favorite load with a premium bullet. I do like Hornady XTPs, perhaps I will try to work up a load with those. I load them for .380 and .44 Magnum. Hey guido4198, do you have velocity numbers on that load for the 115 grain XTP and bullseye?

Was able to find a load data for the 124 grain Rainier FP using Accurate Powders. The data lists the max load for AA#2 as having a velocity of 1047 FPS. I bet that is enough to get things to cycle just fine.

Worst case I can fire up ammo that won't function in my Taurus PT-99.

Guess I might have to go pick up some unique and/or bullseye.

[guido4198]

I got that 115 load from my Hornady manual. They show 4.6 BE as a MAX LOAD. They also show it running 1150 fps from a 4" bbl. S&W M-39. I've never chronographed them. They have functioned well in several 9mm handguns I've owned over the years with no issues. FWIW: I'm carrying Federal HST 124's in my CM9, and they have a bit more snappy recoil than that Hornady load.

[Charlie98]

I reload the 102grn Golden Saber in my Colt .380, I just used starting data from my reloading manuals (I use 4 different ones) and work up. No one else has a 102grn bullet, so I start a little lighter and just work up from there, watching for pressure signs. You could do the same thing with your GS's in the 9mm.

I did find the GS very accurate in both my Colt Gov't .380 and my brother's PPK/s over a charge of W231, but I don't know the velocity (vs Unique;) I would expect the same with the 9mm.

I prefer heavy bullets in the 9mm, but there aren't too many factory loads with them, hence my choice of the Hornady 147grn TAP for carry.

[OldLincoln]

Hi Dirt Engineer and welcome to the forum! The initial break in for all Kahr guns have a lot of friction on the action and I recommend a fairly strong FMJ for the first 100 rounds to make it good right off. Many have found a weaker load to cause feed and eject problems.

I reload myself (still fairly new) and use W231 at 4.5gn on a 124gn plated RN from Precision Delta. My PM9 is well broken in and shoots anything but didn't before it was ready.

Strongly recommend the Proper Prep and Lube chart in the Kahr-Tech section. Note where the lube chart says coat that means use grease. They like to run on the wet side initially then will do well with normal cleaning and lube.

Good luck to you and let us know how it goes.

[Tilos]

dirtengineer:

I don't load premium bullets 'cause I buy any ammo I carry for self defense.

231 is a good 9mm powder but I found bullseye to shoot more to point of aim out of a pm9, with both 115 and 124 bullets from Precision Delta.

If you call Kahr, in the slim chance you have any problems, expect to be asked about the ammo used.
And the only WRONG answer to that question is reloads:9:

Tilos

[dirtengineer]

Tilos - I haven't received my firearm yet, so I haven't read the manual. Is Kahr one of the manufacturers that say don't use reloads? I understand that they don't want to be liable for kabooms, but as long as you keep things within reason...

I know that some folks say that you should use factory ammo for defensive loads. My philosophy is that if you load your own you can afford to practice with your defensive load. I am ultra careful about QC on my defensive ammo and typically use brand new brass. I hand weight every charge, check it with an RCBS powder check die, and then inspect every finished round.

[dirtengineer]

Hi Dirt Engineer and welcome to the forum! The initial break in for all Kahr guns have a lot of friction on the action and I recommend a fairly strong FMJ for the first 100 rounds to make it good right off. Many have found a weaker load to cause feed and eject problems.

I reload myself (still fairly new) and use W231 at 4.5gn on a 124gn plated RN from Precision Delta. My PM9 is well broken in and shoots anything but didn't before it was ready.

Strongly recommend the Proper Prep and Lube chart in the Kahr-Tech section. Note where the lube chart says coat that means use grease. They like to run on the wet side initially then will do well with normal cleaning and lube.

Good luck to you and let us know how it goes.

OldLincoln,

I have read that thread on lube/prep and plan to follow the advice. My only concern is trying to shoot a greased firearm in Alaska in November/December. It has been pretty cold this year and I am thinking that I would cause a lot of jams just because of the lower viscosity or thicker consistency. Of course, I could start with grease and if it doesn't work a quick wipe down and oil up would fix things nice.

Wow - 4.5 grains has got to be a max load if not more. Load data that I got from MidwayUSA several years ago listed 4.5 grains of W231 as a max load for the Rainier 115 grain RN. Max loads are typically lower for a heavier bullet. What source did you use to get your load data?

[Ikeo74]

Hodson reloadind lists 115 gr jacketed bullet with w-231 at max of 5.1 gr. in 9mm bullets.
I reload my berrys plated 115 gr at 4.9 and they shoot fine. Don't have it in front of me but 124 grain should be max at around 4.9 w/231.

[OldLincoln]

You may be right so others please advise.

My Hornady manual shows 3.9gn to 5.2gn of W231 for 124 FMJ. I picked one kinda in the middle. I've put quite a few through the PM9 without any deformities or feeling like a hot load. But I would like other opinions to be sure.

[dirtengineer]

Here is the load data that I have:
Source - Winchester out of the "Complete reloading manual for the 9mm Luger"
W231 for 124 grain FMJ 4.2-4.5 grains
W231 for 124 grain LRN 3.3-4.0 grains

Source - Lee Modern Reloading second edition
W231 for 124 grain jacketed 4.2-4.5 grain
W231 for 124 grain lead 3.3-4.0 grain

I am not familiar with that brand, precision delta. Rainier bullets says to use lead bullet data or to reduce jacketed data by 10% for their plated bullets. They used to have data on their website (I have a pdf copy) which is what I was quoting before. Berrys says to use middle of the road load data.

I know that load data can be all over the place. I don't have a Hornady book, but I do have Hornady data in my universal 9mm book, and it doesn't list W231 for 124 grain bullets. If the Hornady book shows you are ok and you don't have signs of excess pressure, I would check the velocity with a chronograph as a last step. If the velocity is reasonable and fairly consistent I would still use the load if it was reliable and accurate. My favorite load in .380 is in this category where it is above max for one source and below max in another.

[guido4198]

A coupla quick points on published loads in manuals:
Be advised that some powder formulations have been modified over the years by the manufacturer. Even if the actual formulation hasn't been altered by the manufacturer...there can be differences observed from lot-to-lot. None of this matters much if your chosen load is in the low to middle part of the published range. It CAN make a difference however if you want to work in the upper end of the safe range...even up to MAX loads. In addition of course...every firearm is different. This is why EVERY responsible, experienced reloader will ALWAYS advise that you start out "well down" in the recommendation table of charge weights, and WORK UP.

[Ikeo74]

Go here for load information on W-231 right from the horses mouth.

http://www.wwpowder.com/

Use 125 gr data for 124 gr loads.

[Tilos]

What Ikeo74 said...
The difference of load data from manuals can be eliminated by using data published by the powder manufacturer.
Hodgdon's website is a good source for winchester powder info because they make it.
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp
or
http://www.alliantpowder.com/default.aspx
or
http://www.handloads.com/
or
http://www.ammoguide.com/

But this is not benchrest...unless you try and make it benchrest.

Tilos

[U.S. Patriot]

This is my 9mm load

4.2 grains TiteGroup
CCI #500 primers
Winchester 115 grain FMJ bullets
COL 1.130"
They cycle in all of my 9mm pistols.