Question - When do you remove you gun?

[Markis82]

Hi All,

As a CCW holder I carry my weapon as often as I can. I have been troubled by the question of when should I leave my gun in the car or home? What do you do in these situations? BTW due to a shoulder injury I carry in the 1:00 - 2:00 position.

1) When you go to the dentist? - I'm worried the dentist will inadvertently feel it under my shirt.

2) When you get a haircut? - Again, worried the gun will be inadvertently detected.

3) When you're going to a show or play or movies (on a date)? - Worried there might be a metal detector and asked to leave, ruining my date and chances with a wonderful woman.

4) When you're going to a small private gathering among friends in a guarded, gated private community? - unnecessary to carry here??? I might have a drink or 2.

5) When you're going to the gym? - Leave in car, gym locker??? It might get stolen out of my locked locker.

6) Out to dinner where I might have a glass of wine or 2? - Should I carry and deprive myself of some wine therefore not enjoying the evening fully or not carry and indulge and enjoy???

7) Any place else I forgot?

Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

[Thunder71]

What the hell kind of dentist do you go to? :)

Mine goes on in the morning and comes off at bed time.

[Markis82]

What the hell kind of dentist do you go to? :)

Mine goes on in the morning and comes off at bed time.LOL! Just saying that where my gun is (front right) that if the dentist or hygienist has an accidental slip of the hand, it might be detected.

[Markis82]

Here in the "wild west", I pocket carry a PM40 pretty much 100% of the time that I am awake and occasionally right through a nap on the couch. ;)

Admittedly, I am too old to have any interest in the bar scene and only occasionally drink on special occasions at home or when visiting friends homes. The concerts we attend regularly are classical symphony or chamber music, so metal detectors are not needed to keep out the riffraff.

Like my many other old curmudgeon acquaintances, I don't actually worry about anyone noticing.Here in Florida it is NOT legal to carry in a bar. However, you may carry in a restaurant that has a bar provided you do not sit in the bar area. Also, it is legal to consume alcohol while carrying. However, one cannot get drunk and carry. I do not do the bar scene either and I'm torn between carrying or not this Saturday to the Naples Philharmonic Center for the Nutcracker.

[MO_Soldier]

I carry CONSTANTLY!!

If you're in a place where it's legal to CCW, then who cares if the dentist, etc, notices your piece. Obviously keep it to a minimum because it could make you a target. But at least you have it on the off chance that someone HAPPENS to discover it.

I'll carry if I have a drink or two, but I know myself very well and I'm trained EXTENSIVELY. I also become FAR more attentive so that I can be more likely to avoid any situation than to have to get myself out of it. After a drink or two, I'll run before I shoot.

In Missouri, you can't carry anywhere where they get 51%+ of their revenue from alcohol sales without written consent from the owner/manager.

Did any of this help you?

[Markis82]

I carry CONSTANTLY!!

If you're in a place where it's legal to CCW, then who cares if the dentist, etc, notices your piece. Obviously keep it to a minimum because it could make you a target. But at least you have it on the off chance that someone HAPPENS to discover it.

I'll carry if I have a drink or two, but I know myself very well and I'm trained EXTENSIVELY. I also become FAR more attentive so that I can be more likely to avoid any situation than to have to get myself out of it. After a drink or two, I'll run before I shoot.

In Missouri, you can't carry anywhere where they get 51%+ of their revenue from alcohol sales without written consent from the owner/manager.

Did any of this help you?Apparently, you're not aware and I should have included this in my original question. In Florida if someone intentionally or accidentally notices your gun, it carries the same punishment as brandishing it. They can call the police and I'd be toast. That is why I care if my dentist etc notices my piece. Thus creating part of my dilemma.

[Thunder71]

Yeah, but the question was 'When do you remove your gun?'

Not, 'When should I remove my gun?'

:)

In Minnesota it's not open or concealed, it's carry... makes no difference how you carry, which I'm very thankful for.

We can carry to bars which is nice for me since I don't drink, and we 'can' drink up to .04% which I don't really agree with but it is what it is.

[OldLincoln]

I try to be sensitive to the carry environment. If I'm getting some medical procedure done where I must disrobe I leave it at home or in the car. Otherwise it's the usual don't carry places like the VA, Post Office, schools, etc. I had to retrain my self when first picking up grandkids at school when they are sick, etc. Now it's normal to put it in the car box.

I carry at 3:30 so not at the exposure risk as appendix. I've been going to the same dentist for many years so if she discovered my carry it wouldn't be a big deal. She knows me as the gentleman I am so would not feel threatened.

[Markis82]

Yeah, but the question was 'When do you remove your gun?'

Not, 'When should I remove my gun?'

:)

Yes, that would be better! So, when do you rephrase a question or Should I rephrase my question? :D

[MO_Soldier]

Apparently, you're not aware and I should have included this in my original question. In Florida if someone intentionally or accidentally notices your gun, it carries the same punishment as brandishing it. They can call the police and I'd be toast. That is why I care if my dentist etc notices my piece. Thus creating part of my dilemma.

You're right, I wasn't aware and now I see your dilemma. I would just figure out a way to have it near you at least. Maybe a coat pocket. When you walk in, take the coat off and fold it appropriately on a nearby chair so that you can easily get up and reach it should something happen.

I had a massage once in the full nude, and had my gun near me in this fashion. I feel confident that my naked self could have fended off an attacker while advancing to my deadly coat. (Obviously something else would have to be done in warmer times.)



In Minnesota it's not open or concealed, it's carry... makes no difference how you carry, which I'm very thankful for.

In Missouri, we can open carry as well. But businesses can just ask you to leave, whereas they have to post the proper signs for you to have to stay out with a concealed firearm. Among other things, it's basically more hassle-free to carry concealed, and you're also less of a target.

[tv_racin_fan]

Apparently, you're not aware and I should have included this in my original question. In Florida if someone intentionally or accidentally notices your gun, it carries the same punishment as brandishing it. They can call the police and I'd be toast. That is why I care if my dentist etc notices my piece. Thus creating part of my dilemma.

Who told you this? I have been looking in the statutes and I do not find this.

It will sure make a difference in how I carry when I visit my mother near Tampa if this is the case.

[muggsy]

My dentist has a CCW permit. The last time I visited his office I showed him my new CM9. He was impressed and thought that he might pick one up for himself. Now that's my kind of dentist. No, his last name isn't Holliday. :)

[Markis82]

Who told you this? I have been looking in the statutes and I do not find this.

It will sure make a difference in how I carry when I visit my mother near Tampa if this is the case.I did read it in the statutes, it is not specifically spelled out. But, it was explained fully in my CCW class, some time ago. It also has been in the news because our Governor is trying to change the statute.

[TheTman]

I carry mine anywhere it's not posted i can't, plus not in city, state, or federal office buildings, post office. My doctor and dentist both post the no gun sign. I doubt if my barber would care. I don't drink so that's not a problem carrying in bars which is legal here, though most "wilder" bars are posted no guns, while restraunt bars usually don't post. As far as malls and stuff EVERY entrance must be posted. I went into a mall the other day through a restraunt which wasn't posted, so I carried on into the mall where you aren't sposed to CC. I just made real sure I didn't print. Kansas law states that EVERY entrance into a public place must display the no gun sign, or else it's void.

[MO_Soldier]

Here is for the native Floridians:
http://www.justfacts.com/images/guncontrol/florida.jpg

Now imagine if you weren't treated like criminals if you CCW!!
Those laws will prevent me from ever living in Florida unless they change them.
I understand as a CCW I COULD always end up in a courtroom...but I don't want my choice to be black and white; Jail or dead.

[Markis82]

Bummer! I not aware of that draconian Florida law. Here in "the wild west" of Arizona, open carry is fine. No concealed carry permit is required unless you intend to carry where alcohol is served.

Have you considered moving? We seem to have lots of ex-Floridians here. ;)I moved here recently from NJ. In NJ you cannot obtain a carry permit unless you're a person friend of the governor or something near that. Plus 10 round mag limit and no JHP!!! I feel free in Florida!!!

[MO_Soldier]

I moved here recently from NJ. In NJ you cannot obtain a carry permit unless you're a person friend of the governor or something near that. Plus 10 round mag limit and no JHP!!! I feel free in Florida!!!

Lol you MUST feel free! That's a sad thing though. I wish there wasn't so much politics and lawmaking surrounding CCW. It would make it WAY easier for me to lawfully defend myself!

no jhp?? are they retarded? a quick look at terminal ballistics shows the safety AND target effectiveness of jhp vs fmj!

[Markis82]

Lol you MUST feel free! That's a sad thing though. I wish there wasn't so much politics and lawmaking surrounding CCW. It would make it WAY easier for me to lawfully defend myself!

no jhp?? are they retarded? a quick look at terminal ballistics shows the safety AND target effectiveness of jhp vs fmj!Yes, I'd say YES! Whomever wrote the gun statutes for NJ was retarded or severely mentally deficient. I bought several 10 round mags and don't even bring the 15 round mags for my Glock 19 when I drive up for a visit. If caught with mags over 10 rounds you're subject to arrest, even if they are locked up and not loaded. Plus I have to lock the G19 and my carry weapon unloaded in a lockbox. Plus lock the ammo and mags in a separate lockbox. I do this at a rest stop just before I hit Maryland. Maryland is just as bad. All other states, on my trip, recognize my Florida CCW permit.

[FLBri]

OK, Ill admit I have not looked up the law before I read this, but the instructor that told you that "intentional or accidental" discovery is the same as brandishing your weapon needs to be re-schooled, or was misunderstood. From what I remember, the actual words specifically have the term "reasonable" in them, and say something to the effect of "hidden from the reasonable sight of another." When I have the time, I will look it up and refresh myself on it .... but I'm sure enough that I am not going to worry about it for even a moment. I have a CCW and I carry. When I'm not carrying, I'm usually in reach ... I make provisions for it.

If that instruction was true, you would have 'rubes' walking around looking for pocket bulges and crying wolf just to cause trouble! I am positive there is NOTHING in the statutes that provides for that. I will look it up shortly and show you.

[FLBri]

Here ya go. The statute is #790.001. This is from the "definitions" section which is the very first part of the law. The word I was looking for is 'ordinary', not reasonable.

Subsection 2 is quoted:

(2) “Concealed firearm” means any firearm, as defined in subsection (6), which is carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the firearm from the ordinary sight of another person."

http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2010/790.001

That has been defined by precedent in Florida to exclude someone stripping you down with there eyes to suspect you of carrying and crying Wolf! You instructor needs a refresher course. Parts of Florida law may be Draconian, but the gun laws are not included in that. Florida is also a full 'castle doctrine' state. That includes your vehicle and your work place.

If your dentist discovered you while trying to 'cop a feel' I think I would blow the whistle on him/her (ok, maybe not her) rather than worry about how 'ordinary' it was to bump my gun!!

Carry, practice, be responsible, and enjoy the right!

[Markis82]

OK, Ill admit I have not looked up the law before I read this, but the instructor that told you that "intentional or accidental" discovery is the same as brandishing your weapon needs to be re-schooled, or was misunderstood. From what I remember, the actual words specifically have the term "reasonable" in them, and say something to the effect of "hidden from the reasonable sight of another." When I have the time, I will look it up and refresh myself on it .... but I'm sure enough that I am not going to worry about it for even a moment. I have a CCW and I carry. When I'm not carrying, I'm usually in reach ... I make provisions for it.

If that instruction was true, you would have 'rubes' walking around looking for pocket bulges and crying wolf just to cause trouble! I am positive there is NOTHING in the statutes that provides for that. I will look it up shortly and show you.Well I have been doing so research and it WAS illegal. The statute was just changed in June 2011. "Gov. Rick Scott on Friday signed legislation (SB 234) that would make it clear that it’s not a violation of gun laws if a concealed gun permit holder’s weapon accidentally becomes visible." However, you can still get arrested for it. This new bill just provides you or your lawyer with a defense.

[FLBri]

Yes, that bill "makes it clear". But that doesn't mean it was illegal. In fact, it wasn't ... just the left leaners looking for ways to misinterpret. I doubt you can find a case of accidental discovery that was successfully prosecuted, if prosecuted at all.

If someone comes up with an example of such a case, I will humbly retract and go back into hiding.

[Markis82]

Yes, that bill "makes it clear". But that doesn't mean it was illegal. In fact, it wasn't ... just the left leaners looking for ways to misinterpret. I doubt you can find a case of accidental discovery that was successfully prosecuted, if prosecuted at all.

If someone comes up with an example of such a case, I will humbly retract and go back into hiding.Any statute is only as good as how it is enforced. There would be no reason for the Governor to "make it clear" unless it was a problem. I would not want to be arrested, spend a night in jail, defend myself in a courtroom even if the accusations could stick.

"Your weapon is inadvertently exposed when you reach down to the bottom shelf in a store and a LEO sees it and decides to hook you up... As the law was before the changes, it was clearly illegal but not under the new law"

"I never recommend taking the law literally, even if you are right, because sometimes that means you spend time in jail and spend big money on a lawyer, in order to prove your point. That's not the way to do it, and there are much easier and better ways." ~ Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq. Author: "Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership"

So yes, accidental display was illegal. Yes, the instruction I received in CCW class was 100% correct and yes, you can still get arrested for accidental display. The statute rewrite just provides you a defense.

[FLBri]

Any statute is only as good as how it is enforced. There would be no reason for the Governor to "make it clear" unless it was a problem. I would not want to be arrested, spend a night in jail, defend myself in a courtroom even if the accusations could stick.

"Your weapon is inadvertently exposed when you reach down to the bottom shelf in a store and a LEO sees it and decides to hook you up... As the law was before the changes, it was clearly illegal but not under the new law"

"I never recommend taking the law literally, even if you are right, because sometimes that means you spend time in jail and spend big money on a lawyer, in order to prove your point. That's not the way to do it, and there are much easier and better ways." ~ Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq. Author: "Florida Firearms -- Law, Use & Ownership"

So yes, accidental display was illegal. Yes, the instruction I received in CCW class was 100% correct and yes, you can still get arrested for accidental display. The statute rewrite just provides you a defense.

True, but Accidental display was not the original question.
I guess what we can agree on is the fact that it is good that it is clear .... the rest is a moot point beyond that. Bending over and being seen might have been (must have been) an issue and is now defined legally as accidental and has been clarified. But that wasn't the original question. Seeing a bulge in a pocket or a bump of a hand across the backside is not an exposure and was never illegal in the State of Florida as it is not "ordinary sight." This has been upheld in courts. The law on that account is, and was, clearly defined.

I am glad for the clarity on the other issue, for sure.

[TriggerMan]

Per Markis82: "As a CCW holder I carry my weapon as often as I can. I have been troubled by the question of when should I leave my gun in the car or home? What do you do in these situations? BTW due to a shoulder injury I carry in the 1:00 - 2:00 position."

1) When you go to the dentist? - I'm worried the dentist will inadvertently feel it under my shirt. I'd carry

2) When you get a haircut? - Again, worried the gun will be inadvertently detected. Carry

3) When you're going to a show or play or movies (on a date)? - Worried there might be a metal detector and asked to leave, ruining my date and chances with a wonderful woman. In Michigan, Entertainment Centers with seating of 2500 or more are pistol free zones. Many of the mega theatres hit that number

4) When you're going to a small private gathering among friends in a guarded, gated private community? - unnecessary to carry here??? I might have a drink or 2. Mich has a very very low tolerance for blood alcohol level. It could be as little as one drink for a small person. If I drink, I don't carry. Might happen once in two years.

5) When you're going to the gym? - Leave in car, gym locker??? It might get stolen out of my locked locker. CAR

6) Out to dinner where I might have a glass of wine or 2? - Should I carry and deprive myself of some wine therefore not enjoying the evening fully or not carry and indulge and enjoy???

7) Any place else I forgot?

Any thoughts or ideas? Check the law in your State, some of the drinking questions are not grey areas for opinion.

Thanks,
Mark

[chuckt]

Since I end up in many places I can't legally carry, I found myself with a security problem since my car doesn't have a trunk. I solved this with a small gun safe cabled to the car under the front seat. Not a perfect solution, but I think better than the glove box. It also meets the requirements for going onto a military base or postal property.

[jdlott74]

Hi All,

As a CCW holder I carry my weapon as often as I can. I have been troubled by the question of when should I leave my gun in the car or home? What do you do in these situations? BTW due to a shoulder injury I carry in the 1:00 - 2:00 position.

1) When you go to the dentist? - I'm worried the dentist will inadvertently feel it under my shirt.

2) When you get a haircut? - Again, worried the gun will be inadvertently detected.

3) When you're going to a show or play or movies (on a date)? - Worried there might be a metal detector and asked to leave, ruining my date and chances with a wonderful woman.

4) When you're going to a small private gathering among friends in a guarded, gated private community? - unnecessary to carry here??? I might have a drink or 2.

5) When you're going to the gym? - Leave in car, gym locker??? It might get stolen out of my locked locker.

6) Out to dinner where I might have a glass of wine or 2? - Should I carry and deprive myself of some wine therefore not enjoying the evening fully or not carry and indulge and enjoy???

7) Any place else I forgot?

Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,
Mark

For me and jlottmc it's as follows:

1) When you go to the dentist? - I'm worried the dentist will inadvertently feel it under my shirt. Me - Either in my purse, or behind the back...jlottmc, usually behind the back or on the side...He has a CHL so it doesn't matter. As long as they don't have the correct sign for not being able to carry, we carry.

2) When you get a haircut? - Again, worried the gun will be inadvertently detected. See above question...

3) When you're going to a show or play or movies (on a date)? - Worried there might be a metal detector and asked to leave, ruining my date and chances with a wonderful woman. See above question....In TX we don't have metal detectors at plays or movie theater's so it's a mute point. We still carry.

4) When you're going to a small private gathering among friends in a guarded, gated private community? - unnecessary to carry here??? I might have a drink or 2. We carry unless it we know we are going to be drinking...Drinking and firearms DO NOT mix well together.

5) When you're going to the gym? - Leave in car, gym locker??? It might get stolen out of my locked locker. Not sure about that one. Probably put it in gym bag in the locked locker.

6) Out to dinner where I might have a glass of wine or 2? - Should I carry and deprive myself of some wine therefore not enjoying the evening fully or not carry and indulge and enjoy??? Again, Drinking and firearms do not mix. We don't carry if there is a remote chance we will be drinking, BUT usually we are carrying regardless and we don't drink anyway. In TX if they have the 51% rule, carrying is a NO NO anyway and illegal.

7) Any place else I forgot?

[ltxi]

Apparently, you're not aware and I should have included this in my original question. In Florida if someone intentionally or accidentally notices your gun, it carries the same punishment as brandishing it. They can call the police and I'd be toast. That is why I care if my dentist etc notices my piece. Thus creating part of my dilemma.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. At least not anymore.

To your original questions..1) my dentist doesn't care 2) my hair stylist carries a gun 3) My wife won't let me go out on dates any more, but she carries also 4) Generally not 5) Gun stays in car 6) yes

[cgff]

Markis82, (OP)

To answer your question, I try to never lock a hand gun in my car.
If I knowlingly have to go somewhere my ccw is restricted from then my
ccw is locked away in the safe at home. Did I mention I do not lock my
handgun in the car.

[bikerbill]

You should check the laws in FL for answers to some of your questions ... My advice as far as drinking and carrying is, don't ... In many places it's illegal; but imagine having to take a blood or breath test after you've legally shot a crook and then explaining on the witness stand why you had alcohol in your system while carrying a lethal weapon ... as for all the places you go, forget it ... even if the dentist detected your handgun, so what?

My PM9 slides into my pocket -- or on my belt in a paddle holster when my pants go on, back in the drawer at night when I take 'em off ... I'm not going to be caught with a weapon if I can help it ...

[JohnR]

Florida - a concealed weapon must remain not visible to ordinary sight, but a recent statute made an inadvertent exposure legal, like if you raise your arm up to the top shelf at the grocery store.

That's all, no groping, no visible holsters, nothing like that is in any statute.

[muggsy]

Apparently, you're not aware and I should have included this in my original question. In Florida if someone intentionally or accidentally notices your gun, it carries the same punishment as brandishing it. They can call the police and I'd be toast. That is why I care if my dentist etc notices my piece. Thus creating part of my dilemma.

I carry during every waking hour. A gun locked in my car can't save my life or the life of another. If I were you I'd start working to have the CCW laws in Florida changed.

[JohnR]

Open carry is a 2nd degree misdemeanor.

"Brandishing" (displaying a weapon in a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense) is a 1st degree misdemeanor.

Unintentional brief display of a concealed weapon is not illegal.

[Thunder71]

SO glad I live in Minnesota... except for the whole weather thing.

[Markis82]

SO glad I live in Minnesota... except for the whole weather thing.I'll deal with the Florida law and swim all winter!! Funny, our summer temperatures for the last 3 years averaged 2 to 3 degrees lower than Chicago, NY, and Philly. So weather wise, we have the best of both.

[hss.strat]

I think you bring up some good points here:

1) Is it safe to leave your gun in the car when you go to the gym or find out you can't bring your gun in to a place.

I'd say not preferably. If your car gets stolen, so does your weapon. Not great... If you know you're taking a date to a place like a museum, then you should call ahead and ask what their policy is on ccw. As much as we have the right to be armed, other people have the right to refuse our patronage on their private property. In my mind, choosing to carry a gun also means choosing to be more responsible. Calling ahead might seem inconvenient, but it's responsible. As for the gym specifically... I'd consider leaving it in a gym bag, in the holster, in the locked locker (using a good lock, not some cheapo one with the 3 numbered wheels). But I generally just leave it at home and go directly to and from the gym.

2) Is it okay to carry while drinking?

Absolutely not. Carrying a gun is a serious thing, it shouldn't be taken at all lightly. Dulling your decision making abilities and strapping on a deadly weapon is a terrible idea. Imagine trying to explain yourself on the stand when the bad guys attorney says that he was just asking for the time but you were so drunk that you thought he was robbing you. Or even worse, what if that was true? I wouldn't enjoy that burden. This may also be illegal in your area.

3) What if my dentist, doctor, garbage man, etc. etc. notices it?

Unless they are a ccw type, they probably aren't going to know what they bumped against. They'll just assume it was a *********. And if they are the ccw type then they won't care. But even if they did see it or recognize the feel, so what. It's in the bill of rights for a good reason. I see there is some discussion about FL law on the matter, I know nothing about that. You should, of course, make sure you're complying with all local, state, federal laws on the matter.

My 2 cents.

[wyntrout]

I don't go to bars or "out drinking", but my wife and I do go out to eat once in a while and like to have adult beverages... usually wine with our meals. Thankfully, I'm not prohibited from doing so because I'm carrying concealed... and since we got the "Merlot-to-go law", can carry the resealed bottle home... not having to chug it or leave it. I still have the right to self defense but I had better be above reproach if I have to draw my weapon. It's a case of "I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six".

I can never get the Luby's Cafeteria Massacre out of my mind and always sit with the best defensive view. I will never be a sheeple waiting for my turn like those people in Kileen, Texas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

It's like insurance... do you get some because you think you're going to have an accident <stay home!>, or do you have it all the time because accidents can happen any time?

Wynn:)

[Dueeast]

I remove mine when I'm going back home to NJ. My various CC permits are no good there. (I know, I know, can't move, job and family keep me here) But I'm helping to put up the good fight.

[CJB]

I get up, take the PM9 or PM45 out from under my pillow where it sits with an empty chamber, full mag. I chamber a round and insert a full mag. I get showered and dressed, and the PMx goes into my right front pocket. I work all day, and while at work, the PMx out of my employer's regulations, stays in my locked truck's glove box in the company lot (secure). After work it goes into my pocket again. On weekends its in the pocket all the time. Bed time, I empty the chamber, insert full magazine and stick the PMx under my pillow. Should I be with a lady friend, or she with me, she knows its there, and it might temporarily move to the nightstand to avoid excessive vibration ;).

At some point, the routine becomes so routine you really forget the PM is in your pocket. I've been at work and said - rut roh, and made an excuse to go out to the lot. I've found myself in a bar twice... crap... stay cool, dont sit at the bar, and just continue to forget its there. Thats how routine things get.

Dentist, hair cutter, parties, whoopie on the beach, on the Harleys, just about any other place except actual sleep, work, or nekkid activities... its in my pocket.

[hss.strat]

Wynntrout,

I think you're looking at it backwards. The solution isn't to stop carrying, the solution is to not drink. Doesn't seem like a real issue to me.

[wyntrout]

I don't have a problem with either, but moderation in a few drinks with a meal works for me. I'm fully aware of what I'm doing and am very careful, but I realize it's not for everyone, and, if I were to have to use my weapon for self-defense, I WOULD at least have it, and expect to be held to the highest standard of scrutiny. I wouldn't be regretting leaving it at home or in my vehicle.

Wynn:)

[TheTman]

My stupid bank has an ATM that you have to leave your car and walk up to and use.
I sure don't take my gun off there, no matter what the law says. (I think it's ok to be armed at the ATM, as long as you don't go inside the bank) I had to use it tonight after dark and was very observant. Checked around the corner of the building for someone hiding, and had a good look around before I left my car.
It's just to convenient or someone to come driving in and rip you off. Can't believe they don't have a drive up ATM. I'm switching banks, and that's the main reason.

[Markis82]

My stupid bank has an ATM that you have to leave your car and walk up to and use.
I sure don't take my gun off there, no matter what the law says. (I think it's ok to be armed at the ATM, as long as you don't go inside the bank) I had to use it tonight after dark and was very observant. Checked around the corner of the building for someone hiding, and had a good look around before I left my car.
It's just to convenient or someone to come driving in and rip you off. Can't believe they don't have a drive up ATM. I'm switching banks, and that's the main reason.In your state you cannot carry in a bank??? That is a place where you really might need it. We can carry in banks in Florida.

[MO_Soldier]

I avoid full disclosure on the internet. Does anyone else? If so, why?

[hss.strat]

I avoid full disclosure on the internet. Does anyone else? If so, why?

Mainly I just outright lie. Doesn't everyone?

[CJB]

Mainly I dont believe anyone. Doesn't everyone?

[jlottmc]

My stupid bank has an ATM that you have to leave your car and walk up to and use.
I sure don't take my gun off there, no matter what the law says. (I think it's ok to be armed at the ATM, as long as you don't go inside the bank) I had to use it tonight after dark and was very observant. Checked around the corner of the building for someone hiding, and had a good look around before I left my car.
It's just to convenient or someone to come driving in and rip you off. Can't believe they don't have a drive up ATM. I'm switching banks, and that's the main reason.


I'll tell you a true story that happened to me along those lines. Same kind of thing, at the time I thought banks were no good here as well, plus didn't have my CHL (weapon was in the console of my truck). I looked, and looked good before I went in (this one was at the same building, but detached and in another area behind the drive up lanes). I had just put my PIN in, and got my bell rung (ironically the last time I have had to put a paycheck in the bank like that, some others yes but not a paycheck) with a pipe. I have a hard head, and didn't hit the ground, so I got tagged in the knee then. We tussled for a bit, then I finished my business, and left that guy where he lay (unventilated but leaking). I had a limp for a month after that. Now I know better, and carry into the bank and quite a number of other places. Worst part of that one was my wife worked down the street from there, and was one my way home, as well as being a second gig for us.

[Mr_D]

In your state you cannot carry in a bank??? That is a place where you really might need it. We can carry in banks in Florida.
Some people wrongly believe that a bank is Federal property and some states actually have laws making it illegal. Luckily I know the laws here and what is Federal property.

[TriggerMan]

Some people wrongly believe that a bank is Federal property and some states actually have laws making it illegal. Luckily I know the laws here and what is Federal property.I believe we used to have Federally chartered banks in town. That's no longer the case. There is a Federal Reserve Bank in Detroit. No guns there, no retail level transactions there either.

[Markis82]

Some people wrongly believe that a bank is Federal property and some states actually have laws making it illegal. Luckily I know the laws here and what is Federal property.The Fed law clearly states that you cannot carry IN a Federal facility. The grounds, parking lot, etc... are not affected by the Fed law. Except the post office as we all know. Possibly, state laws that limit carrying at Banks might be worded the same way. It is worth a good look if your state limits you.

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility...

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government

So, one could carry at a MAC machine located on the grounds of a Fed facility as long at it was not inside the building. Maybe it is the same with your state law.

[MO_Soldier]

The Fed law clearly states that you cannot carry IN a Federal facility. The grounds, parking lot, etc... are not affected by the Fed law. Except the post office as we all know. Possibly, state laws that limit carrying at Banks might be worded the same way. It is worth a good look if your state limits you.

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility...

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government

So, one could carry at a MAC machine located on the grounds of a Fed facility as long at it was not inside the building. Maybe it is the same with your state law.

Banks are federally insured, not owned, rented, or operated by the feds.
Could you give me a link to the federal laws on handguns/concealed carry/prohibited places/etc?

It would be ESPECIALLY helpful if you could post those links and maybe a few comments on my other thread: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9938. Just please include "Federal Laws" in the post so people can find it when they do a forum search. Thank you ahead of time!

[wayneo1]

I think the Florida law is not a law but interpretation of brandishing by the different local authorities. By passing an open carry law it would solve the interpretation problem.

[Markis82]

I think the Florida law is not a law but interpretation of brandishing by the different local authorities. By passing an open carry law it would solve the interpretation problem.Nope! It is been clarified:

790.053
... (1) Except as otherwise provided by law and in subsection (2), it is unlawful for any person to openly carry on or about his or her person any firearm or electric weapon or device. It is not a violation of this section for a person licensed to carry a concealed firearm as provided in s. 790.06 (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html)(1), and who is lawfully carrying a firearm in a concealed manner, to briefly and openly display the firearm to the ordinary sight of another person, unless the firearm is intentionally displayed in an angry or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense.

[Markis82]

Banks are federally insured, not owned, rented, or operated by the feds.
Could you give me a link to the federal laws on handguns/concealed carry/prohibited places/etc?

It would be ESPECIALLY helpful if you could post those links and maybe a few comments on my other thread: http://kahrtalk.com/showthread.php?t=9938. Just please include "Federal Laws" in the post so people can find it when they do a forum search. Thank you ahead of time!There really is no Federal list of prohibited places. Just Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities Federal Firearms Law (http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#toc). But really it is a statement in a states law like ... and anywhere prohibited by Federal law. To me, that means Post Offices, military bases, and Federal buildings.

[MO_Soldier]

There really is no Federal list of prohibited places. Just Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities Federal Firearms Law (http://www.nraila.org/federalfirearms.htm#toc). But really it is a statement in a states law like ... and anywhere prohibited by Federal law. To me, that means Post Offices, military bases, and Federal buildings.

That's what I'm looking for, a list. And for that exact reason, "...and anywhere prohibited by Federal law." is in every state's laws that I've seen. I want to see it itemized so I can mentally check them off.

As a CCW holder, I can literally carry ANYWHERE in Missouri and be free from STATE prosecution. The state won't even prosecute me for carrying in Federal buildings. BUT, that's where the FED'S will prosecute and it's the ONLY place I'm limited to carry while in Missouri. That's why that list is so important to me!

[MO_Soldier]

BTW, I didn't find these federal laws until RIGHT after I asked you to share them haha. I've been busy reading them thoroughly instead of posting them. Thank you for helping me complete my other thread as my personal project!

[Markis82]

That's what I'm looking for, a list. And for that exact reason, "...and anywhere prohibited by Federal law." is in every state's laws that I've seen. I want to see it itemized so I can mentally check them off.

As a CCW holder, I can literally carry ANYWHERE in Missouri and be free from STATE prosecution. The state won't even prosecute me for carrying in Federal buildings. BUT, that's where the FED'S will prosecute and it's the ONLY place I'm limited to carry while in Missouri. That's why that list is so important to me!Yes, Federal gun laws do not make it easy to know where you cannot carry. But who ever accused the Federal Government of making things easy!!

[MO_Soldier]

Well what I've gathered is just nowhere they own, rent or operate.

That's nice for me. Missouri makes it very clear and concise so that I may carry anywhere with my CCW permit. I wish every state was like this.

I look at "No Concealed Weapons" signs and laugh while a cop sits in her cruiser by that same entrance. haha. It's comforting.

[Markis82]

BTW, I didn't find these federal laws until RIGHT after I asked you to share them haha. I've been busy reading them thoroughly instead of posting them. Thank you for helping me complete my other thread as my personal project!No problem... I have been reading a lot since this morning and here is my conclusion: There are NO Federal laws against carrying a weapon anywhere except inside Federal buildings (federal courthouse, federal prison, Post Office including parking lot, VA Hospital, etc.) States may enact laws against carrying a gun in a school or on state property such as a state courthouse, prison, etc., and this would be a violation of state statute. Private companies can forbid carrying a gun on their premesis, but if you do, and are caught, you have done nothing illegal (assuming the gun, carry method etc. is legal), only violated their policy. Commercial banks are private institutions.

[MO_Soldier]

Private companies can forbid carrying a gun on their premesis, but if you do, and are caught, you have done nothing illegal (assuming the gun, carry method etc. is legal), only violated their policy. Commercial banks are private institutions.

In Missouri, this is only true for CCW permit holders.
Anyone else would be violating state laws to do so.
You can see our state's protection of private businesses in my post on the "Law Comparisons" thread.

[Markis82]

In Missouri, this is only true for CCW permit holders.
Anyone else would be violating state laws to do so.
You can see our state's protection of private businesses in my post on the "Law Comparisons" thread.Exactly. That is why I said, "Assuming the gun, carry method etc. is legal" A person who carries into a private company in Missouri and many other states without a CCW permit, would not be carrying in a method or manor that was legal.

[Markis82]

I guess you can add the Federally protected areas of the airport. The rest of the airport is OK. Just not into and beyond the TSA screening area.

[MO_Soldier]

Exactly. That is why I said, "Assuming the gun, carry method etc. is legal" A person who carries into a private company in Missouri and many other states without a CCW permit, would not be carrying in a method or manor that was legal.

I see now, I apologize.

[Markis82]

I see now, I apologize.No apology. Just drop down and give me 50!