Range Report: New CM9 Kahr Owners a "must read".

[Ikeo74]

Ok, I shoot behind my house on 12 acers home range so I have plenty of time to experiment with ammo. I am a reloader and am familiar with ammo pressures and velosities. I am also a new CM9 Kahr owner and have about 500 rounds through my gun which is running flawlessly now. However durning the break in procedure I did have some problems with the "weak target ammo" I was using (1) not cycling correctly which caused, (2) Failures to eject. This also caused another problem of (3) not locking the slide open on the last round and (4) some stovepipes. When the gun would not eject it would cycle back far enouth to re-**** and re-set the trigger but not remove the case from the chamber. This caused what some of you may be calling (5) Failure to fire. Pulling the trigger at that point resulted in a definate release of the fireing pin, but the case in the chamber had already been fired. The term (FTF) does not apply in this situation. Now, after all that information, I sat that ammo aside and used only (near maximum) loaded ammo. This is sold as High velosity or +P ammo. Using that ammo the gun issues listed above went away, zero, none, zilch problems for the next 300 rounds. Having sufficient ammo fired for a good break-in I decided to pull back out the weak target ammo that was causing the problems. Guess what? Every problem returned, exactaly as before. So I set this ammo aside again and returned to my hi-velosity and +P ammo. All the Problems disappeared again.
So the point I want to make here is almost all if not 100% of new gun and new owners problems are AMMO RELATED. They are not the fault of the gun. So, if you are having some failures with your new CM9 set the ammo aside that you are using and get some higher velosity ammo to shoot. Do this before you send your new gun back to Kahr service for a problem with the ammo. If higher velosity doesn't correct the problem then clean and oil the gun as to Kahr instructions and try the high velosity ammo again. If you try these suggestions, please post your own results on this forum before sending your gun in to Kahr. You just might be supprised with the results you get.

[jocko]

Makes sense, expecially with new kahrs which are very tight and the recoil springs are also very strong and not yet shot in. Once that all happens. kahrs are just not ammo0 sensitive. I jwould not disagree that High velocity +p type 9mm will work better but if kahr meant for their guns to shoot this type only for reliability, they would tell the owners that, which they do no. This forum has addressed many piddly issues that saves a owner from not sendinghis gun back , if he will only come here and ask for help. These guys here know IMO what they are talking about.

Good point though, certainly another possable that one needs to elimiate before sendig his gun back....

[jocko]

Makes sense, expecially with new kahrs which are very tight and the recoil springs are also very strong and not yet shot in. Once that all happens. kahrs are just not ammo0 sensitive. I jwould not disagree that High velocity +p type 9mm will work better but if kahr meant for their guns to shoot this type only for reliability, they would tell the owners that, which they do no. This forum has addressed many piddly issues that saves a owner from not sendinghis gun back , if he will only come here and ask for help. These guys here know IMO what they are talking about.

Good point though, certainly another possable that one needs to elimiate before sendig his gun back....

I believe that is one of the main grips of the Kimber solo, they tell the wners in their manual to shoot hotter rounds and not really 115 grain ammo. I dop not think this set well with many owners either. I personaly do not want to shoot for range fodder HP ammo +P..

[JFootin]

Ok, I shoot behind my house on 12 acers home range so I have plenty of time to experiment with ammo. I am a reloader and am familiar with ammo pressures and velosities. I am also a new CM9 Kahr owner and have about 500 rounds through my gun which is running flawlessly now. However durning the break in procedure I did have some problems with the "weak target ammo" I was using (1) not cycling correctly which caused, (2) Failures to eject. This also caused another problem of (3) not locking the slide open on the last round and (4) some stovepipes. When the gun would not eject it would cycle back far enouth to re-**** and re-set the trigger but not remove the case from the chamber. This caused what some of you may be calling (5) Failure to fire. Pulling the trigger at that point resulted in a definate release of the fireing pin, but the case in the chamber had already been fired. The term (FTF) does not apply in this situation. Now, after all that information, I sat that ammo aside and used only (near maximum) loaded ammo. This is sold as High velosity or +P ammo. Using that ammo the gun issues listed above went away, zero, none, zilch problems for the next 300 rounds. Having sufficient ammo fired for a good break-in I decided to pull back out the weak target ammo that was causing the problems. Guess what? Every problem returned, exactaly as before. So I set this ammo aside again and returned to my hi-velosity and +P ammo. All the Problems disappeared again.
So the point I want to make here is almost all if not 100% of new gun and new owners problems are AMMO RELATED. They are not the fault of the gun. So, if you are having some failures with your new CM9 set the ammo aside that you are using and get some higher velosity ammo to shoot. Do this before you send your new gun back to Kahr service for a problem with the ammo. If higher velosity doesn't correct the problem then clean and oil the gun as to Kahr instructions and try the high velosity ammo again. If you try these suggestions, please post your own results on this forum before sending your gun in to Kahr. You just might be supprised with the results you get.

Good point. Also, I think bullet weight is important. 124 gr is standard for 9mm, not 115 gr.

I ordered some 124 gr range ammo from USAAMMO.COM over a week ago and the order is still pending. (Not my payment. It is gone already.) Sent them an email asking whazzup a couple of days ago. No reply. Does anyone have any experience with this company?

I also want to try some 147 gr.

[jocko]

question: If 124 is standard which i believe it is in a defense round why is it that we see so much more 115 fmj ammo, which I call range fodder. I know they make 124 fmj but one sees far less of it than 115...

just askin:

[JFootin]

I don't know. But it seems like my CM9 could run a little better with 124, and the USA Ammo is cheap. Thought I'd give it a try. Now, if I can just get my ammo shipped from them. :mad:

[jocko]

I would suspect 124 ammo might be a tad hotter than 115.

makes sense..

let me know if it goes where u aim to, as I am looking for somne ammo like that. I am about had it with 115 grain ammo. that sh-t goes all over the target..

[Ikeo74]

Good point. Also, I think bullet weight is important. 124 gr is standard for 9mm, not 115 gr.

I ordered some 124 gr range ammo from USAAMMO.COM over a week ago and the order is still pending. (Not my payment. It is gone already.) Sent them an email asking whazzup a couple of days ago. No reply. Does anyone have any experience with this company?

I also want to try some 147 gr.

On another forum I visit they are complaining about USAAMMO. They cash your check and don't ship the product for a very long time. They will not answer emails or phone calls either. Good Luck with your order.
www.*********** (http://www.***********)

[Bill K]

That's some good info even if not surprising (kahrs being particularly tight and all) - thanks for sharing.

[jimsea]

Thanks for the observations which I agree with completely.

On the other hand, the nose diving issues are completely QC mag related. These mags are being bent around a form and seam welded by a computerized TIG machine. Stainless has "metal memory" and has a tendency to flair at the top after being bent to form.

The mags are then shipped to you without ever being fitted into a mag well or a round chambered into barrel by a human being. The quality control end of this manufacturing process is being put onto the consumer which IMO is unsatisfactory.

Fortunately for me I know how to make the adjustments necessary (not difficult) to make the mag work the way it should, but that being said I feel the frustration of those whose only perceived option is to send it back to the manufacturer.

But don't get me wrong, I love this gun. It's the most impressive polymer handgun I've ever had my hands on. It's a keeper for sure.

[yqtszhj]

I ordered some 124 gr range ammo from USAAMMO.COM over a week ago and the order is still pending. (Not my payment. It is gone already.) Sent them an email asking whazzup a couple of days ago. No reply. Does anyone have any experience with this company?


Yes. I did get my ammo but it took a couple of weeks. I ordered 500 rounds of reloads and they charged my card right away. Then they sent me an email saying that my delivery would be delayed because they just switched to Fedex ground for all shipments. My package would ship by Monday (one week later.) I waited for an email saying that it shipped and it never came. I called the customer service number that was on the first email on Wednesday and got a guy that said it should have shipped because it was in stock and that I sould call back in the morning. Well, I called back and get a somewhat pleasant but very dingy female that knew nothing but told me it would ship tomorrow. I wait a few days, hear nothing, and then call back. get the same female that still knew nothing but made some excuse. I wait a few more days, call back again, and basically she said their new delivery system was hosed. She did not know where my order was, when it whoud ship, couldn't tell me anything, I would not get an email when it shipped, but I would get my ammo. Well I wait some more and it shows up at the door a day or 2 after I spoke with her. I never got another email.

Here is it now, 1 1/2 month later and I get a fedex email saying that I have a package on the way that weighs 16 pounds from USAammo. I'm hoping for a christmas present but does anything show up at the door? no. It's my fedex email 1 1/2 months late.

On a good note, I shot 50 rounds of that ammo today and other than being a little dirty it's excellent. I would buy again but I just wouldn't want to be in a hurry.

[JFootin]

I am about had it with 115 grain ammo. that sh-t goes all over the target..

Yeah, really! I thought my name was Jocko my last range session. :behindsofa: At 10 yds, my groups were about 9". :nerd: I wasn't using a rest and was doing break in. But those red bulls eyes were acting like they had Star Trek defense shields in front of them! Out of 67 shots, one barely nicked a bulls eye. I'm near sighted and my glasses put the sights out of focus. Had one nose dive. The second round that my brother shot. I told him to firm up his grip. Had one FTRB late in the session. Probably limp wristing on my part. Bumped the slide home. I think the 124 gr will solve those kind of issues and make wrist and grip less critical for perfect functioning. That, and more rounds down range.

I'm going to get closer to the target next time. And I'm really going to work on point and shoot, focusing on the target and not worrying about the sights. I believe I can learn to be more accurate within SD range that way than using the sights. Muscle memory. It sure works for Bob Munden. The bullet leaves his SA revolver just after the barrel clears the holster, so he is shooting from waist level. And those bullets go exactly where they are supposed to!

[Ikeo74]

Thanks for the observations which I agree with completely.

On the other hand, the nose diving issues are completely QC mag related. These mags are being bent around a form and seam welded by a computerized TIG machine. Stainless has "metal memory" and has a tendency to flair at the top after being bent to form.

The mags are then shipped to you without ever being fitted into a mag well or a round chambered into barrel by a human being. The quality control end of this manufacturing process is being put onto the consumer which IMO is unsatisfactory.

Fortunately for me I know how to make the adjustments necessary (not difficult) to make the mag work the way it should, but that being said I feel the frustration of those whose only perceived option is to send it back to the manufacturer.
Mag problems, I have not had any on either my 6 round or new 7 round. Maybe I am just lucky but I wonder if part of that problem might be caused by not pushing each bullet completly to the rear of the mag. Another problem might be using ammo that is too long on the OAL. I experimented on some different lengths of reloads to see how they fit in the mag and found out that bullets longer than 1.125 can hang up on the front of the inside of the mag which could cause nose dives when loaded into the chamber because it holds (tilts) the nose of the bullet down. I suggest people with problem nosedives measure the ammo they are using to see if this might be their problem. The fix would be changing ammo to a shorter length, or trying a bullet that is not flat nosed or very wide shaped.

[jocko]

Yeah, really! I thought my name was Jocko my last range session. :behindsofa: At 10 yds, my groups were about 9". :nerd: I wasn't using a rest and was doing break in. But those red bulls eyes were acting like they had Star Trek defense shields in front of them! Out of 67 shots, one barely nicked a bulls eye. I'm near sighted and my glasses put the sights out of focus. Had one nose dive. The second round that my brother shot. I told him to firm up his grip. Had one FTRB late in the session. Probably limp wristing on my part. Bumped the slide home. I think the 124 gr will solve those kind of issues and make wrist and grip less critical for perfect functioning. That, and more rounds down range.

I'm going to get closer to the target next time. And I'm really going to work on point and shoot, focusing on the target and not worrying about the sights. I believe I can learn to be more accurate within SD range that way than using the sights. Muscle memory. It sure works for Bob Munden. The bullet leaves his SA revolver just after the barrel clears the holster, so he is shooting from waist level. And those bullets go exactly where they are supposed to!

me tell u a 9" group at 10 yards for me is what I callin the same hole:target:

[JFootin]

me tell u a 9" group at 10 yards for me is what I callin the same hole:target:

LOL! Well, 9" is still COM on a BG.

[jimsea]

The fix would be changing ammo to a shorter length, or trying a bullet that is not flat nosed or very wide shaped.

............no, the fix is to squeeze the sides of the upper portion of the mag to make it uniform top to bottom which subsequently will enable the mag to accommodate the longer round.

[jocko]

jimsea is roight on target with the FIX..

[jocko]

LOL! Well, 9" is still COM on a BG.

be a damn big guy to!!:86:

[TriggerMan]

I would buy again but I just wouldn't want to be in a hurry.
Are you kidding me? How cheap is it that you'll be abused that way?

I mostly buy from Cheaper Than Dirt or Natchez Shooting Suppy and they are prompt, accurate, communicate well and fairly priced.

[Ikeo74]

............no, the fix is to squeeze the sides of the upper portion of the mag to make it uniform top to bottom which subsequently will enable the mag to accommodate the longer round.
I never thought of it that way. You may be correct that squeezing the mag allows for longer bullets. I'll keep that in mind if I have any mag problems.

[yqtszhj]

Are you kidding me? How cheap is it that you'll be abused that way?

I mostly buy from Cheaper Than Dirt or Natchez Shooting Suppy and they are prompt, accurate, communicate well and fairly priced.

Yeah, I had a second thought after I typed that but it was cheap. Less than $9 for a box of 50.

I usually do the same and get from CTD or catch Cabelas on deep discount with free shipping. Got a bunch of .223 from Cabelas w/ free shipping at $5.25 a box recently.

[JFootin]

Thanks, yqtszhj. I'll stay after them until I get my ammo and never order from them again. Geez! I won't try to cancel the order because no telling how long it would take to get my money back.

[kahrlover123]

On another forum I visit they are complaining about USAAMMO. They cash your check and don't ship the product for a very long time. They will not answer emails or phone calls either. Good Luck with your order.
www.*********** (http://www.***********)

I concur on this (I had the same issue). They are a local small shop. They do not have customer service at all. Most likely it's a mom & pop shop.

[yqtszhj]

There was something in the fine print when I ordered that said when the order was placed, they would charge your card to purchase supplies to make your order, and then work up your order. Since the price was cheap I figured what the heck, I'll try it.

[Ikeo74]

Kinda makes you wonder why they don't have enough money or supplies to make the order, doesn't it? :confused: They must be working out of the garage.

[yqtszhj]

Could be. I'm wondering if they are playing direct marketing for someone else making the ammo that puts it in a USA ammo box then ships it to us. The girl I spoke with at that time made some comment about a "distributer" that in the context she said it I never quite understood. It all sounds strange to me.

[JFootin]

Ah, well. Caveat emptor. You live and learn.

[JFootin]

Ah, well. Caveat emptor. You live and learn.

I talked with the lady at USA Ammo this morning, asking about my order. She said they had gotten behind, but were catching up. She offered to refund my $13.xx shipping charge and make sure the ammo ships today. So, I'm a happy camper! Be happier when I get the ammo and when it goes bang at the range! :)

[HeyGuysWatchThis]

Good point. Also, I think bullet weight is important. 124 gr is standard for 9mm, not 115 gr.

I ordered some 124 gr range ammo from USAAMMO.COM over a week ago and the order is still pending. (Not my payment. It is gone already.) Sent them an email asking whazzup a couple of days ago. No reply. Does anyone have any experience with this company?

I also want to try some 147 gr.

I bought some USAAMMO 9mm for my CM9, and I've shot about 350-400 rounds of it now, and find it to be excellent functionally and very clean shooting, which is a nice bonus. Cleaning the gun after that stuff is much easier than any of my other guns.

As far as the lead time and response to emails, I can't comment on that, because I got in in the epic Gearhog sale, so they had a huge spike when I ordered, so I know they were swamped.

[yqtszhj]

I agree mine has shot good too so far.