How the heck can I rely on them?

[Scoundrel]

I've got more than 2500 rounds through my CM9. Almost all of them were cheap practice-grade FMJ. I bought a new recoil spring, made sure it worked, and then took it back out. No sense using it until I have reason to.

I recently decided it was time to stop practicing so much at the range with FMJ, and start carrying the thing around with JHP in it. So I bought a few boxes of Winchester 147gr JHP and took them to the range. I put a box and a half through with absolutely no problems. So I figured, "Well, that's good then." and have been carrying the CM9 full of those ever since.

A week or so ago, the guys dragged some post-Halloween pumpkins up to an outdoor shooting area, and we blasted away at them using .22, AK-47, etc.

I decided to see what the 147gr JHP would do to a nice firm pumpkin. I only had the 7 rounds with me (6+1). The 3rd one failed to feed (yes, I've done the follower mod). I had to pull the slide back a bit to loosen it up, then shove the slide forward to get it chambered. The others worked OK. Maybe it's time to put that new recoil spring in, but I doubt it.

Now how the heck am I supposed to trust that?!

I'm not gonna burn my way through another 1K rounds trying to find a JHP that doesn't get stuck feeding.

I can trust the FMJ practice stuff. The failures with that stuff were few and far between and almost all my fault or the crappy 7rd magazine's fault.

[Husky44]

I wouldn't think you'd need to fire 1000 rounds of JHP, but I'd want to shoot at least a couple hundred (incident free). Not sure if there is another way to get confidence in your ammo except shoot it. Or, go back to FMJ for your SD ammo.

[jocko]

one round , andu nowcan't trust the gun, cold have evenbeen shooter error, Maybe just get away from the 147 grain and getinto the more common used 124 hp ammo. With all the rounds u have through that gun and it has beengreat, consider the 147 to mabye be iffy. u might check to see if that bigger round might be touching the inside of the slide lock lever also. this canalso cause what happened, if it wasnot shooter error, which as u know we never can know one way or the other. We can always review the "past" but we can't bring back the"past". I think uyr in fine shape.

Personaly I like the power ball round in my PM9 due to one main rason incase I ever need to depend on it, is that it resembles arn fmj round. I hyave shot 147 grain fmj ammo in my PM9 with ease but really have never tried the 147 hp round.

[WMD]

If I understand you correctly, you put 2500 rnds through the gun, then put in a new recoil spring, then took out the recoil spring, then had a FTFD with the 147 gn hp.

Kahr recommends a new recoil spring every 1200 rounds. You are twice over that. Your problem could be symptomatic of a recoil spring going south.

Issue could also be a combination of recoil spring and the 147gn but I would start with the recoil spring. I always change both the recoil assembly and spring at the same time.

Let us know how you make out!

[Thunder71]

Yeah, I agree - for a defense weapon Kahr recommends a new recoil spring every 700-1200 rounds.

If the new one works, use that for carry and the other one for practice.

I've never had issues with 147gr for what it's worth... in fact it's what I carry (Winchester PDX1 Bonded), feeds smooth as silk even if I ride the slide on a hand rack.

Just something to think about.

If you want a gun that you can trust about 99.99% of the time, carry a revolver. No feed issues, no eject issues, if it doesn't go bang, pull the trigger again.

I'd say your gun is quite reliable, just change out that recoil spring when in carry mode and call it good.

[Barth]

I wouldn't think you'd need to fire 1000 rounds of JHP, but I'd want to shoot at least a couple hundred (incident free). Not sure if there is another way to get confidence in your ammo except shoot it. Or, go back to FMJ for your SD ammo.

+1
I have to agree.
200 rounds without failure of any kind is an absolute must for SD ammo.

If somethings wrong, fix it and 200 more rounds.
Repeat until reliable or accept it's just a range gun.

[MLESa7990]

+1
I have to agree.
200 rounds without failure of any kind is an absolute must for SD ammo.

If somethings wrong, fix it and 200 more rounds.
Repeat until reliable or accept it's just a range gun.


But what if that one failure out of 200 is caused by the user? Another 200 rounds through it?? SD ammo ain't cheap.

I think if you can determine its user error, then there no need to start over with another 200

[mightymouse]

What's already been said about 2500 rounds on original recoil spring.
1 of 2500+ , .0004 % have failed. That's pretty darn good odds.

No sense using it until I have reason to.
Maye that was your first warning?

If your car's timing belt is past replacement date, tires to the cords, don't you replace them?
Same goes for a firearm, it needs regular maintenance to keep it in top condition.

[Thunder71]

Yep, that's 99.9996 percent chance of it working.

I think that's about as reliable as anyone could hope for.

Good shooter you have there!

[Scoundrel]

1200 rounds? I thought it was supposed to be 2500? That's why I didn't leave the new one in, I figured I was just approaching the ball park on that. Can you point me to some official documentation on that? I just looked through the manual (twice) and didn't find it there.

I didn't lose confidence in the gun, just the ammo. I suppose it's possible that it was shooter error. After that many rounds you'd think I'd have gotten over any limp wrist issues, but it is a different weight than I've been shooting, so...

I've only got about 75 rounds of this stuff through the CM9 because, as pointed out, it's expensive. I guess I should swap in that new spring and go shoot a few more boxes at the range to be sure.

[Scoundrel]

OK, I just called Kahr support to get it from the horse's mouth, since I couldn't find anything on their website either.

They recommend replacing the recoil spring at 1200-1500 rounds if you're using it as a defensive pistol. If you're using it as a range gun, then it's around 2500 rounds "or whenever the feed failures start to get annoying". I must have read some incomplete or not clearly stated information on this somewhere.

This changes my perspective quite a bit. I'm swapping that new recoil spring back in there right now.

Then, sigh, I guess I'll go spend $100 in JHP ammo somewhere to get that confidence back.

[sinac84]

I use Pow'rBall ammo because I have found it to be the most reliable in feeding for defensive carry ammo. The polymer ball fills in the hollow and they feed like regular ball ammo. They are +P. Never have had an issue with them like I did with traditional JHP.

http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/oo246/sinac84/powrball.jpg

[Barth]

But what if that one failure out of 200 is caused by the user? Another 200 rounds through it?? SD ammo ain't cheap.

I think if you can determine its user error, then there no need to start over with another 200

I don’t want to be mean.
But user error is an entirely different issue.
Your very worst day at the range will likely be better
than how you will shoot in a SD situation.
If you feel you’re experiencing user error causing gun failure?
Then you need a whole lot more range time till you get that problem solved completely.
Then, and only then, it’s time to verify SD ammo selection with your given platform.

That’s my way of thinking.

[Bawanna]

I think scoundrel shoots A LOT. He's only had that gun a month or two and over 2000 rounds so I don't think there's any moss growing on the gun.
I think in earlier conversations he was a shooter long before the Kahr came along so it could be a kahr/user mating issue or more than likely just a fluke.
Not calling you a bald face liar Mr. Barth and not defending scoundrel although he local and could easily come and beat the stuffing out of me if he caught me in a weak moment. Mostly just bored to tears and hate to get back to the pile of work I really should be attacking after laying around yesterday in the sick bay.

[TriggerMan]

1200 rounds? I thought it was supposed to be 2500? That's why I didn't leave the new one in, I figured I was just approaching the ball park on that. Can you point me to some official documentation on that? I just looked through the manual (twice) and didn't find it there.

I didn't lose confidence in the gun, just the ammo. I suppose it's possible that it was shooter error. After that many rounds you'd think I'd have gotten over any limp wrist issues, but it is a different weight than I've been shooting, so...

I've only got about 75 rounds of this stuff through the CM9 because, as pointed out, it's expensive. I guess I should swap in that new spring and go shoot a few more boxes at the range to be sure.I have had good luck with older Federal 115 gr Hydra-Shok , 124 gr Speer Gold Dots and Speer Gold Dots +P 124 gr ammo in my PM9. Speer GDs were also recommend by SIG for my P238. Its what they fired when they polished my ramp. It is possible to find good pricing on 50 round boxes in 9mm.

[MW surveyor]

Nowhere have I seen anyone say that it could have been an out of spec round. FWIW, I got over 3000 rounds through my CW9 at the present time with the same recoil spring. The only failures that I've had were caused by an out of spec round (my reloads are not always 100% right on but my failure rate is only 2 in 2900). Sometimes you just get one that does not work properly. Shoot a few more of the 147 or if you are really anal, measure each of the rounds that you have left. If a few are longer or shorter OAL than the mean, try them out first. If the longer or shorter rounds choke, then you've probably found the problem.