CM9- getting mags to drop free

[kayl]

I read the thread about squeezing mags down to size, but all of my mags are already down to size. I also took some sandpaper and sanded down the "rails" inside of the magwell a little bit.

The mags drop free when they're below the mag catch, but they stick up above the catch.

Any other fixes? I don't want to go too crazy sanding the magwell; I might just ask Kahr to fix it :-p

[Tilos]

The bulge that gets squeezed is at the base of the "lips", at the bend transition to the very top of side of the mag.

Look down into the magwell and check the mag catch surface that passes the front of the mag.
If it has a shiney spot, remove it and file/stone it for some clearance.

I wouldn't mod the frame/magwell, but that's me.
Tilos

[jocko]

agree with Tilos, last thing I would fokk with is ther frame magwells. U can't put back what u take off i that area. At the worst u can just ruin a mag well body

[kayl]

Hrm-
I thought touching up the magwell was the norm-
I won't do any more to it!

I'll double check my mags tonight!

[kayl]

I couldn't get the mags to drop free, so I sent Kahr an email. The reply I got stated that the mags were out of spec and offered to exchange them for new mags that will drop free.

Hopefully that's the case, but I find it hard to believe that all 4 mags I have from 3 different sources are out of spec.

[Sir Stunna Lot]

best fix for this is to use pliers and squeeze in along the top of the magazines (squeeze together the left and right side) along the entire length

squeeze, drop test... if fail squeeze some more, rinse and repeat

so far this fix works on both of my mags that i recently purchased

good luck

[Tilos]

Sorry to hear that.
The bulged area I mentioned is only .003-.005 inch bigger than the rest of the mag width.
How did you measure those mags to determine they are "already down to size"?
Tilos

[TriggerMan]

Sorry to hear that.
The bulged area I mentioned is only .003-.005 inch bigger than the rest of the mag width.
How did you measure those mags to determine they are "already down to size"?
Tilosmy PM9 didn't come with calipers or a dremel tool. What should I do?

[kayl]

Sorry to hear that.
The bulged area I mentioned is only .003-.005 inch bigger than the rest of the mag width.
How did you measure those mags to determine they are "already down to size"?
Tilos

Digital calipers.

Where exactly is the area? Right below the lips, right?

[Tilos]

Tilos

[PCollen]

I read the thread about squeezing mags down to size, but all of my mags are already down to size. I also took some sandpaper and sanded down the "rails" inside of the magwell a little bit.

The mags drop free when they're below the mag catch, but they stick up above the catch.

Any other fixes? I don't want to go too crazy sanding the magwell; I might just ask Kahr to fix it :-p

I doubt that Kahr is going to "fix it", because their design is to NOT have the mags drop free.

[kayl]

I doubt that Kahr is going to "fix it", because their design is to NOT have the mags drop free.

Other threads note that Kahr will do something to allow a drop free mag if you send it in and request.

Why would Kahr CS say that the mags are out of spec if they aren't dropping free if that is how the gun is designed?

[kenk]

Interesting that my new CM9 was sticky at first (I have only 100 rounds fired so far), but yesterday I was dry firing and as long as I pressed the mag release button COMPLETELY IN, the mag dropped without sticking. That would suggest that the mag release just needs to wear a bit????

Ken

[jimsea]

Interesting that my new CM9 was sticky at first (I have only 100 rounds fired so far), but yesterday I was dry firing and as long as I pressed the mag release button COMPLETELY IN the mag dropped without sticking. That would suggest that the mag release just needs to wear a bit????

Ken
......this observation illustrates just how little movement/force is required to "squeeze" a mag so that it drops free.

[jocko]

I doubt that Kahr is going to "fix it", because their design is to NOT have the mags drop free.

probably more kahrs drop mags freely than not. The guru's here have found that it is more magazine related than mag well related. and there is a very simple fix for dropping those magazines if one has to have it that way. Mine have never dropped freely in my PM9 since day one and I know the fix but choose to leave it as it is, as I don't fear that magazine flyng out of the gun if accidently the mag release is pushed in. each to his own though.

I would try the fix before ever shipping it back to kahr...

[kayl]

As a quick note, I was able to fix all but 1 of my mags with careful squeezing as described :)

The other mag will be going back to Kahr

[Tilos]

"As a quick note" is actually the answer that took 2 pages of posts of many members helping you solve your problem, important enough to you to start a thread and ask for help.

I hope my description helped and then the pic I composed, posted just for you, when you could not locate the problem area.

To me, "A quick note" and a smiley is a pretty thin thank you:boink:.

Tilos

[kayl]

"As a quick note" is actually the answer that took 2 pages of posts of many memebers helping you solve your problem, important enough to you to start a thread and ask for help.

I hope my description helped and then the pic I composed, posted just for you, when you could not locate the problem area.

To me, "A quick note" and a smiley is a pretty thin thank you:boink:.

Tilos

Thanks again Tilos-
I had tried squeezing them before, but was squeezing too low on the mag. Sorry for the quick post, I was trying to throw up a f/u post while the baby was screaming and the wifey wasn't happy :-p

Thanks again!

[jocko]

from what I have read and have tolked to with guys who have done the mag mod, it takes so so little squeezing to get the mags to drop freely,m so just go slowly.. The follower must after done be able to still move freely..

[sliponby]

I sent my PM9 back to Kahr with the specific complaint that the mags (I have four 6 round and two 7 round) would not drop freely. I had scheduled a 2 day concealed carry class and wanted to use my PM9 as one of my guns because it is in my carry rotation.

I related the problem in an email to the instructor and he replied that a defensive semi auto pistol that required 2 hands to extract an empty mag (pistol in strong hand, weak hand pulling out mag) was putting the user at a disadvantage should the need to reload arise in a defensive situation. It would also hamper my performing some of the drills in class.

I sent the gun to Kahr and, as best as I can ascertain, they sanded the 4 raised ridges inside the mag well (2 ridges on each side). They never stated that's what they did in the "work performed" part of the work order, but it appears that's what was done and the empty mags drop freely now...

[Tilos]

sliponby:
I've heard that's Kahr's "fix" for tight mags, and have read about it being very crudely done...hack job comes to mind.

The frame is important because it IS the gun, having the serial number on it, and the most expensive part to replace.

I'd squeeze the mag every which way I could before I'd send my frame/gun to Kahr for a "fix".

If squeezing didn't work, I might put a thin piece of sticky back polishing paper on one side of a mag and see if that would open it up enough, before I'd let anyone have at it with a dremel or file....but that's just me.

just sayin,
Tilos

[jocko]

if kahr wants to sand the insdie of the frame/mag well then IMO I could go with that as they would be responsible ofr any damage but if an owner does it, rest assured kahr will not stand behind that kind of stuff.

Like Tilos stated, the magazine squeeze seems to work every time whenone does it, ..I have not heard of anyone going to far with the mag squeeze and ruining a magazine either..

[jimsea]

i've got a free mag that will probably be here sometime after Christmas.........i'll do a video of the "squeeze" then.

...........i just can't fathom anyone sanding the inside of the mag well.

[HeyGuysWatchThis]

Actually, sanding the magwell makes sense to me. Go slow, a couple of non-aggressive strokes per ridge and test, and any mag you stick in there works. Fix it once and be done.

To sliponby, when you got it back from Kahr with this fix, was it reliable? If so, it seems to me that this is the unadvertised fix. Just do it more carefully, there's nothing to complain about.

[sliponby]

Yes, my PM9 has been 100% reliable since I got it back and I have ~500 rounds through it since.

One thing I've noticed that concerned me a bit; the mag has about 1/8" or so up and down movement when the slide is locked back and you insert a full mag. I can't remember if there was that "play" in the mag before I sent it in. Anyway, it works, the mags drop freely when I'm ready to reload, and I'm satisfied.:)

[Tilos]

HeyGuysWatchThis:

Whatever you are comfortable with, but I want to ask sliponby what does it look like inside:confused:.

Yup, just cut some fine/thin sandpaper the width of the mag, put it inside the mag well, insert a mag, and pull them out together.

Your name kind of says it all though:D,
Tilos

[sliponby]

Tilos, the ridges are still prominent but you can tell that some material has been removed. As I stated before, this was done by a Kahr gunsmith-not me...

[Tilos]

sliponby:

So in the other thread where I posted about looking down the magwell for the step in the ridges, you responded your gun had none, and you were looking thru the mag well of a gun that Kahr had worked on?

Ok then, what can I say, except if Kahr removed the step then I'm guessing it would be hard to see:eek:.

Tilos

[Micha2u]

I'm just curious...does anybody know if the magazines freely fall out of a MK9?

After following this thread I saw the closed thread on polymer frame Kahrs was just wondering.

[dshideler]

Everyone is talking about squeezing the sides of their mags, but mine rubs the frame in the front. You cant sand the inside of the mag well toward the front of the gun, the mag release spring is there.

[Thunder71]

I'm just curious...does anybody know if the magazines freely fall out of a MK9?

After following this thread I saw the closed thread on polymer frame Kahrs was just wondering.

My MK9 drops the same magazines freely that stick in my PM9.

[Micha2u]

My MK9 drops the same magazines freely that stick in my PM9.

Thanks for the feedback on the MK9 magazine drop! I suspected that they were designed to drop freely from the metal framed version of these small guns.

My mags were sticking in my CM9 and they already measured the minimum target dimension that was indicated in the thread on squeezing them down in a vice.

I used double sided sticky tape to secure a small strip of 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper to the magazine where it was rubbing on the frame and inserted and removed the magazine a few times. That was enough to remove just a slight amount of polymer and now I have mags that drop freely every time. Its more like I polished the rails of the polymer frame rather than took a Dremel or file to them.

Anyway, it worked well for me and I feel good about the results that were attained.

[Tilos]

dshideler:

For rubbing in the front, I've stoned the lumpy WELD area on the back and that did the trick:nerd:
Putting it on a flat stone will show just how raised that weld is:)

Tilos

[dshideler]

Duh, I never thought of polishing the back to loosen the front. Thanks.

[Tilos]

I invite anyone who questions this, to remove the mag from a polymer framed gun, open and lock the slide, and look down thru the mag well.

If you hold it up to the light you will a see STEP in the raised side(rails) areas that guide/contain the magazine, with the top 3rd being wider than the bottom.
I believe this is what the "bulge" catches on and stops the mag, from dropping completely free.

These steps (both sides of the mag well) are very apparent (to me) on both of my polymer kahr guns.

just sayin'
Tilos

Note: Reposted here from the "other" thread.

[Thunder71]

I called Kahr today on this:

Q: What's your stance on this - should they drop free or not?
A: From the factory, some do - some don't. Some people like it, others do not. It's easier to make them drop free after the fact than make them so they do not.

Q: In your opinion, is it the magazine or the frame that causes this?
A: The gunsmith will fix the frame. It's easier to modify the frame than to have to modify every magazine, now and in the future. (Fix it once, and it's done.)

Q: Is this something I can do?
A: I recommend you let a gunsmith do this, it's free of charge under warranty. There's a lot that can go wrong, and you want to take off enough so it drops free but not so much that it isn't secure. If we do the repair and a new frame is required, we cover that. If you do the repair unsuccessfully you'll be charged for a new frame and the labor to put all the parts back in.

I thanked him for his time and that was that.

So...

Q: Are the magazines supposed to drop free or not?
A: If you want them to.

[JFootin]

Q: Are the magazines supposed to drop free or not?
A: If you want them to.

Now, there's a definitive answer for ya! I wonder if this CS guy is running for president? :p

WTH. He said Kahr will fix it under warranty, even if it requires a new frame (not likely). So, everybody with sticking mags send your guns in. But get ready for a 6 month turnaround time and a lot of frayed nerves on both ends.

Personally, I like the suggestion just made to use double sided tape to stick some sandpaper to a mag and slide it in and out a few times, using another mag to determine when you have done enough. Simple, quick, and not much chance of ruining the frame as long as you take it slow and do just enough to free it up.

[Tilos]

Thunder71:

Thanks for calling Kahr, with a couple of methods for opening up the magwell posted, and the mag bulge area location shown in my pic, all the confusion on this subject should end.
It's just unfortunate this info is scattered out in many different threads.

Those CS people at Kahrt have a tough job and the reason I remained a shop rat, never to interact with a customer...I would go jocko on 'em real quick:behindsofa:.

Tilos

[Thunder71]

You need a bigger couch, I see your head!

[claycooper]

I sent mine back and it they sent me a new one that works perfectly. I tried all the fixes and I got it to drop free but had squeezed the lips too much and it wasn't feeding right and I couldn't bend them back.

[Thunder71]

What did you send back?

[claycooper]

I sent back the magazine

[kraigster414]

Seems like some folks are making this into a much more complicated issue than it is. Instead of trying to re-work your mags or sending them in for replacement, worse have then not function as they should because you gave them excess bend, all you have to do so your mags free fall, is smooth out the magwell, not just the ribs but the entire interior surface area. You are not gong to harm anything if you lightly go back and forth with 800 grit wet/dry paper followed by 1200 grit. All you are doing is smoothing out the surface area, you are not taking off any appreciable polymer. Before I worked on mine, it was clear the magwell surface had dings and a very rough service particularly in the middle - friction marks were evident. After polishing, all is smooth (lubrricate the magwell when you are finished - I sprayed Breakfree CLP inside). To get inside I used a very thin/small flat metal ruler and wrapped the wet/dry paper around it. Carefully, I went back and forth on the affected areas about a dozen or so times each with the 800 and then the 1200 grit.

Don't start screwing around with your magazines. I guarantee you this is what Kahr does (light polishing of the magwell to fix the problem vice addressing minute tolerance issues with the mags that can cause them to stick) in 9 our of 10 cases. All my mags now drop freely. Finally, I would agree, that should you ever have to do a tactical reload, you are losing valuable time (a second can make all the difference) if your mag doesn't drop free. All the mags in my other guns drop free, I want my CM9 to be no different.

[Tilos]

Yep...way to complicated, only by the varying mechanical ability of kahr owners.

Squeezing the the mag means grabbing some pliers and having at it, for some.
Sanding the mag well means grabbing the dremel to others, and the reason for the complicated detailed instructions posted here.

Some have posted that, most recently, Kahr has been asking for the return of the magazine(s), not the gun, and I believe they squeeze 'em and just send 'em back.

Tilos

[kraigster414]

There is absolutely no reason to use a Dremmel for this job. Follow my instructions above, it's safe, it's conservative, and it should solve the problem. Every gun owner should be able to do this kind of work. There is nothing to take apart and put back together. All you are doing is light polishing and removing surface imperfections that are causing friction/binding to occur.

Bending magazines, squeezing, whatever at home is NOT the way to go IMHO and may cause the mag to malfunction, worst case scenario.

As for Kahr just replacing the magazines, it' is faster for them to go that route hoping a new mag might drop easier than asking for the lower and hand working the magwell. Conjecture on my part but probably true. :) Given that polishing the magwell is an easy home project, I would do it regardless. 800/1500 grit wet/dry paper can be purchased at any automotive supply store.

[jocko]

both mods require some "common" sense also. Many have done the mag thing and had zero issues, a few have done the mag well and had zero issues. In my case mine have never dropped and I personally do not care either. Never yet had to stoop to pick up my mags at the range. My point has always been, if u fokk up the mag well, ur screwed as far as kahr ding anythig fo ryou. If u screw up a magazine, ur out a mag body and nothing body and nothging else. One should work withn his limits of his abilities. Some asu know are even opting to send the entire gun back and let kahr do the mods, gbut again some maybe feel they might screw things up worse if they do it. Probalby if u can't pick ur ose and wipe ur ass as the same time, u should probalby box the gun up and let kahr do it.

Kraigster , where in the hell have u been ??????

[Tilos]

Yep, no reason, and "every gun owner should be able..." but many/most new Kahr owners are 1st time gun owners who have not yet acquired the skills for "this kind of work".

Thanks for your detailed instructions for polishing the mag well, and understand that no one is advocating banging on the magazines bending whatever...just removing a .005" bulge that is a produced when the "lips" are formed.

Tilos

[kraigster414]

How can you screw up the magwell by simply gong back and forth lightly with superfine 800 and then 1200 grit paper?? All you are doing is smoothing out the surface not hacking off plastic.

[kraigster414]

Yep, no reason, and "every gun owner should be able..." but many/most new Kahr owners are 1st time gun owners who have not yet acquired the skills for "this kind of work".

Thanks for your detailed instructions for polishing the mag well, and understand that no one is advocating banging on the magazines bending whatever...just removing a .005" bulge that is a produced when the "lips" are formed.

Tilos

Not to be argumentative but I can't believe a single person here has never sanded anything. Once again, the goal is to polish lightly the magwell, not to take off any plastic or alter its geometry.

[John222]

Here's what I did. Use the mag to hold the sand paper. Take a piece of 800 grit sandpaper and cut it to 3/4" x 1.5" long. Now depress the follower in the mag and shove about a 1/4" of the sand paper in there (between the follower and the mag wall) and wrap the rest along the outside edge of the mag with the grit facing out. Now shove the mag in the pistol and then pull it back out. Do this several times. Now move the sandpaper to the other side of the mag and repeat the process. This way only the high spots will get sanded.

[kraigster414]

John, if it works for you, you done good. I really think though a small, thin, metal flat ruler (about 6 inches long and a half inch wide) with wet dry paper wrapped around it does a more precise job as you can see and feel what you are doing.

[jocko]

very smart thinking there John 222.

[John222]

Here are some photo's of using the mag as a sanding block.

4970

4971

4972

I'm not sure if this was my idea, or if I read another post referring to it. Very easy to do, but try to keep the paper away from the trigger side edge of the mag where the release button is.

[jocko]

photos sure do wonders. Nice post, I can't seehowone can hurt anything with this method either.

[muggsy]

photos sure do wonders. Nice post, I can't seehowone can hurt anything with this method either.

Some guys can screw up an anvil with a rubber hammer. :)

[kraigster414]

What grit paper are you using John? It seems from the amount of residue on the paper that you may be taking off more than you need to. I am taking virtually nothing off with the 800/1200 grit, basically just smoothing out the magwell surface and then lubricating.

This is where folks can get themselves in trouble - taking too much off, then having a too loose mag fit - and you can't go back once you've done. If you go John's route, I would start with very fine paper. It takes very little effort to solve the stuck mag problem from my experience.

This is how I did it. Very precise, back and forth, just smoothing out. Shown with 1500 grit paper.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y80/kraigster414/IMG_0287.jpg

[John222]

I used 800 and it took several passes per side to accomplish the task.

[jocko]

1500 grip paper, one could work that all day and not move much material. that is fine sh-t..

[Thunder71]

1500 grip paper, one could work that all day and not move much material. that is fine sh-t..

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the toilet paper at work is 1200 grit.

[jeffe007]

My mags had to be squeezed all down their entire length but with he most coming right below the feed ramp. Oh and no more rounds wiggling loose from the mag. When carried in my pocket(s)!

[BlueLineFish]

I will be sending my cm 9 back. I absolutely need my mags to drop free. I can't waste time pulling stuck mags on off duty quals when all my other weapon mags drop freely. I need to train the same on all guns i use. I don't need the gun right now so I am letting my dealer deal with kahr. I am not working on mags nor gun. I pay good money and I want my weapon the way I want it. In the event of a stress environment I want mags hitting the floor as I am in the process of reaching for another mag.

[BlueLineFish]

subb'd

[dean1818]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the toilet paper at work is 1200 grit.

Now THATS funny

[HeyGuysWatchThis]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the toilet paper at work is 1200 grit.

I actually LOL'd at this one, too. I've used some stuff like that before. Made me glad I'm a man and only need it occasionally.:biggrin1:

[BlueLineFish]

Brought mine to the dealer today to return to kahr. Now I don't have the gun and of course my ct laser shows up.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[kraigster414]

Not to sound like an b--l buster and I am told there are a lot of first time gun owners here but I can't believe what I am reading....sending guns back to the factory (along with the risks associated and for this?!), altering the dimensions of magazines....when all you have to do is get some fine 800 grit followed by 1500-2000 grit wet/dry paper, go up and down the magwell ridges a dozen or so times, lube, and the odds are your mags will drop free. You have not removed any plastic, just smoothed the polymer surface. Folks have been doing this for years to Kahr semi autos and it takes all of 10 minutes to do. I learned how from Stevie Wonder.

[John222]

Got to agree. I don't get it either. Didn't take more than 15 minutes to make mine drop free.

[northwingnut]

What harm would be done even if you removed the ridges completely? I don't see why this is such a dangerous move to sand the frame. It wouldn't change the reliability would it?

[SpecK]

What harm would be done even if you removed the ridges completely? I don't see why this is such a dangerous move to sand the frame. It wouldn't change the reliability would it?

Hi Northwingnut, welcome to Kahrtalk! To which ridge would you be referring? the very top thats essentially holding your ammo down into the mag itself?

[SpecK]

Hi Northwingnut, welcome to Kahrtalk! To which ridge would you be referring? the very top thats essentially holding your ammo down into the mag itself?


Durrr- I know what you mean, inside the grip. IMO, that creates a different problem than 'over-squeezing' a magazine. Those ridges are keeping your magazine steady so to speak so its not rattling around. If your mag was leaning too far, you could definitely have issues with feeding

[northwingnut]

No, inside the well there is four ridges and not saying its a good idea but if you removed those "rails" I don't see that it would ruin your gun.

[SpecK]

No, inside the well there is four ridges and not saying its a good idea but if you removed those "rails" I don't see that it would ruin your gun.

Yeah sorry i read that again and it made much more sense :) i posted another reply on the bottom of page 7, but I could be way off. Hold on and one of these smart guys will swoop in and know for sure

[Tilos]

Without reading prior posts, you need to know that what you are talking about "is the gun" and is the part with the serial number.
Messing it up, by modifying it, could be costly.
just sayin'

[ParabellumJ]

I "squeezed" my mags and polished them and now they drop free 100%. Thanks for the tips.

[AUgrunt]

newbie here , thanks for the sandpaper tips. I will try that before bending and squeezing mags.

[jocko]

I would not mess with the inside of the frame mag well . leave it alone. work with the mags that is where the issue is. U screw up the inside of the mag well and ur fokked, u can't replace what u take off and u are guessing even as to how much and where to even sand/file. work with the mags. If u ruin a mag, u buy a new one and ur back to square one, If u ruin the inside of the magwell, ur screwed big time.Kahr will not warranty anything witht he frame if u fokk with it. Work with the mags, there are some good tips on the kahr tech section. Some sand smooth outside of the mag tube and take a good paste wax and wax it and it seems to solve it for some, some squeeze the upper portion of the mag well just a few thousands and it solves the issues. The holdup it at the top of the magazine tube, not the bottom, U can also send the mags back and hope to get a good one that does what u want. Some here like myself do not want my mags to fall all over the place or fly out. Bump the mag release button a tad and you have a magazine on the ground.But if u gott a have um fly out the grip then work with the mags and leave the mag well alone. Just sayin.

[Tilos]

AUgrunt:
Look at the pic in post #10 of this thread.
Tilos

[AJBert]

Just read through the entire thread, believe it or not.

I have a 6 round mag that drops freely out of my K40 and the 7 round doesn't. Pretty simple to me what the problem is, but I think I'll leave things alone until I get more mags.

Of course, most of the folks that are having problems that posted up in this thread have the poly frames and mine is metal. That could be a huge difference.