Do I have a problem?

[O'Dell]

Hey guys. I seem to be having a problem, but I can't explain how it's happening. I had a issue last week with the Detronics - it wouldn't eject at all. Basically, I had a single shot 1911. After every shot, I would drop the mag, hold the gun muzzle up, tap the slide, and the spent case would drop out through the mag well. My dealer sent the pistol to his smith, and he lowered the tension on the extractor. I tried it again today with the same results using Federal, USAAmmo reloads, and some Remington HP's. The HP's were slightly better but not much. I used all three mags. I left the gun at the store again.

Randy, the owner, called me this PM and said that both the smith and one of his sales clerks shot the gun after I left with no issues using all mags. Huh?? I asked about ammo and they used PMC FMJ 45 ACP.

The Combat Master is the heaviest pistol I own at 32 ozs, even more so than the FS SA 1911. I never had a problem with the PM45 which is half the weight, nor have I ever had a problem 'limp wristing' any gun. I have been slightly favoring my right shoulder due to the torn RC, but I don't think that's a factor. What am I doing wrong?

[Bawanna]

The case is extracting out of the chamber but not ejecting out of the ejection port?

Complete failure for you but no issues for 2 other guys?

Only thing I can think of is your really favoring that shoulder and not giving the gun a solid backstop so to speak.

I'm not fond of the term limp wristing as I've know alot of big ole boys that just didn't hold the gun firm enough.

If you want to send the gun to me until your shoulder is 100 % I'd be happy to take care of it for ya.

[Popeye]

Could it possibly be different bullet weights between what you were using and what there using? I know that's a long shot. Only other thingI could ask is are you knocking the rounds back in the mag. by tapping it on somesomething. Other than that I haven't a clue if your sure your not limp wristing it. Which I doubt you are. I think I'd ask to see them shoot it if you continue to have problems.

[Bawanna]

The HP's working slightly better would imply that the other rounds might be slightly under powered or too weak to run the slide reliably but those rounds should work.
Wonder if someone put a strong recoil spring in it at some point?

[O'Dell]

The case is extracting out of the chamber but not ejecting out of the ejection port?

Complete failure for you but no issues for 2 other guys?

Only thing I can think of is your really favoring that shoulder and not giving the gun a solid backstop so to speak.

I'm not fond of the term limp wristing as I've know alot of big ole boys that just didn't hold the gun firm enough.

If you want to send the gun to me until your shoulder is 100 % I'd be happy to take care of it for ya.

No, the case is still in the chamber most of the time, or moved out about 1/4 inch. Of course the next round cannot load because, except in quantum physics, two objects can't occupy the same space at the same time.

I'm going back tomorrow and buy a buy a box of PMC ammo and try again. I know the Federal is a bit weak and I don't know about the USAAmmo - this is the first time I've tried it. It has to be me, but since it hasn't happened before, I don't see how.

Thanks for the offer, but only if you pay the shipping. :)

[O'Dell]

Could it possibly be different bullet weights between what you were using and what there using? I know that's a long shot. Only other thingI could ask is are you knocking the rounds back in the mag. by tapping it on somesomething. Other than that I haven't a clue if your sure your not limp wristing it. Which I doubt you are. I think I'd ask to see them shoot it if you continue to have problems.

All my ammo was 230 gr, and the rounds were firmly at the back of the mag. I don't know about the PMC - I've never used it.

[Popeye]

Ya got me then, I really don't know what else to say other than good luck I hope you get it figured out. You have me curious, let us know what you find out.

[Bawanna]

If the case is left in the chamber your talking bad extractor. I wouldn't think ammo would have much effect on that. The extractor just isn't grabbing the case good enough to pull it out properly. Or the chamber is nasty in some way hanging on enough to win out over the extractor.

How it can work for them and not you is a mystery to me. Since they adjusted the tension on the extractor that's apparently what they are thinking also. That's the culprit either tensioned wrong or the hook worn or improperly shaped.

I'd of course pick up shipping, would only be right, to think I'd expect a man with a bum shoulder to pay for shipping, blasphemy!

[OldLincoln]

O'Dell, why not take some of your ammo with you and have them shoot that. Seems pretty straight forward to prove your ammo and you already have it.

Also, did this happen on the first round out of the mag that you know was fully chambered and under the extractor?

[O'Dell]

If the case is left in the chamber your talking bad extractor. I wouldn't think ammo would have much effect on that. The extractor just isn't grabbing the case good enough to pull it out properly. Or the chamber is nasty in some way hanging on enough to win out over the extractor.

How it can work for them and not you is a mystery to me. Since they adjusted the tension on the extractor that's apparently what they are thinking also. That's the culprit either tensioned wrong or the hook worn or improperly shaped.

I'd of course pick up shipping, would only be right, to think I'd expect a man with a bum shoulder to pay for shipping, blasphemy!

The chamber isn't tight. Just a light tap with the mag out and the empty case slides out on it's own. It's got me stumped, too. Especially, since with much lighter pistols, it's never happened before. [I know, that's what they all say]

I'm going to try again tomorrow with their ammo and see what happens.

I'll let you know about sending you the gun - don't hold your breath though. :rolleyes:

[jlottmc]

It'd be cheaper to send it to me. :D On topic till the squirrels come out, the extractor is really all that could cause that. I'd see about dropping a new one in, and tuning it. Worst case you have a spare for one of the most commonly broken parts ready to go.

[O'Dell]

Hi Guys. Turns out that there's a chapter 2 to the story. It's raining today and I can't work, so I was at the range when they opened today. I bought a box of PMC ammo which is what they used to test the gun and went to the range. The first round FTE'ed with the case still in the chamber. Then I ran 49 rounds w/o a problem. Later I fired two mags each of the USAAmmo and the Walmart Federal and had a FTE on 23 of the 24 rounds. Whoopee! At least part of the blame can be put on the ammo.

The people at the store were also relieved, because of all the 45 rounds I've put down range over the years, they couldn't believe that I didn't know how to shoot it.

I then bought 100 rounds of Gold Dot +p which will be my carry ammo for the Detonics after I test it. If that won't cycle the pistol, nothing will. I didn't try it today, because after two weeks and over 300 rounds w/o a cleaning and lube, the gun was completely dry and very dirty.

Okay, what have I learned? First, this pistol needs hot ammo to cycle with it's very stiff recoil springs and some care when shooting it. Second, no more cheap Federal after I use the 300 or so rounds I have left. The same goes for USAAmmo after I use the 450 rounds in my safe. Both seem to work Okay in my nine other 45's but they're too weak for the Combat Master.

[Bawanna]

I'm still perplexed why it would leave the case in the chamber. I don't see any relationship to a low powered load and the extractor not working. UNLESS it's pulling it out but not with enough gusto to kick it out on the ejector so it goes right back into the chamber. I think I cured my complexion.
I bet if you put a lighter recoil spring in it would run. But since it's primarily a carry gun I'd probably leave it as is. I'm sure it'll run like a rabbit with the Gold Dots.

Crap, does this mean it ain't coming to my house?

[Popeye]

Glad to hear it seems to have out for you. What grain were the PMC's?

[Ikeo74]

This is only speculation about the non-ejecting ammo vs extractor problems.
If the low powered ammo fired and attempted to eject the case, but the slide only traveled back far enough that the empty case did not clear the chamber then the slide would again go forward and re-chamber the same fired case. If this happened the gun would not try to chamber a new round because it did not go back far enough and the extractor did it's job by pulling the fired case "almost" out of the chamber and returning it into the chamber. All this could be caused by stiff recoil springs and low power bullets.

[O'Dell]

I'm still perplexed why it would leave the case in the chamber. I don't see any relationship to a low powered load and the extractor not working. UNLESS it's pulling it out but not with enough gusto to kick it out on the ejector so it goes right back into the chamber. I think I cured my complexion.
I bet if you put a lighter recoil spring in it would run. But since it's primarily a carry gun I'd probably leave it as is. I'm sure it'll run like a rabbit with the Gold Dots.

Crap, does this mean it ain't coming to my house?

I'm sorta puzzled too, but I decided not lose any sleep over it. I didn't sleep very well last night, because I kept asking "Have I turned into a wimp?" :D

The recoil assy [captured with 3 springs] is much stiffer than the 18# springs in the STI or Kimber. I think I'll call Detonics and ask what the strength of the new assy is. They have them in their store for $45.

Sorry, I'm keeping it because it's the smallest 1911 I've seen and for the 'cool' factor.

[O'Dell]

Glad to hear it seems to have out for you. What grain were the PMC's?

230 gr FMJ just like the USAAmmo and the Federal. The +p GD's are 185 gr.

[O'Dell]

This is only speculation about the non-ejecting ammo vs extractor problems.
If the low powered ammo fired and attempted to eject the case, but the slide only traveled back far enough that the empty case did not clear the chamber then the slide would again go forward and re-chamber the same fired case. If this happened the gun would not try to chamber a new round because it did not go back far enough and the extractor did it's job by pulling the fired case "almost" out of the chamber and returning it into the chamber. All this could be caused by stiff recoil springs and low power bullets.

That's as good an explanation as I've seen - I like it. It's would also explain why the slide won't lock back when shooting, but will if hand racked.

[jlottmc]

That over strong recoil spring set up, and weak ammo is the only other thing that would cause that particular ailment, if the set up that's in there is in the 30 pound range. Call and see if they have anything at about 22-24 pound range. That should be right about where one that small needs to be in order to function well.

[O'Dell]

That over strong recoil spring set up, and weak ammo is the only other thing that would cause that particular ailment, if the set up that's in there is in the 30 pound range. Call and see if they have anything at about 22-24 pound range. That should be right about where one that small needs to be in order to function well.

I called Detonics today and again talked to their gunsmith. When asked, he said that the recoil assy in my gun is 32 pounds, and the pistol is not going to feed and eject properly with marginal ammo. It was not designed to do so. I ask him what they were using in their new guns and he said the same one and the manual states to use hot or +p ammo. [I don't have a manual, but he's sending me one] Since the assy is a three spring unit, he said to disassemble it and remove the inter spring if I don't want to use +p exclusively. This will bring it down to 22-24 pounds. This will allow the use of any quality US ammo and should also work with the occasional use of hot defense rounds. My Kimber and STI 3 inchers have a similar size and weight slide and they use an 18 pound spring.

[jlottmc]

18 is what would be spec'd out for a full size. I'd think that slide velocity with those little rockets and that light a spring would do bad things (increase felt recoil, and tear up a frame over time). That smitty at Detonics sounds like he knows that of which he speaks. 22-24 lbs, is about right for those little fire breathers. The question now becomes do you want to use nothing but hot stuff in that little guy, or would the ability to make some off the shelf work be a better bet? Glad you got it figured out.