One more try with the PM45

[John Law]

I finally got some time to get to the range again and see if the PM45 would function 100%. As posted previously, it was very unreliable with multiple FTF in the first 150 rds, just about every mag jammed. Since it came back from Kahr it did improve but I was still getting some FTF.
I thought I was home free today, the first 50 rounds were flawless, I shot 25 of Remington UMC and 25 of Federal Champion.
Next up, 60 rounds of WWB, one FTF at round # 8 and one at round #58. I also shot 50 rounds of Federal American Eagle with two FTF within the first 20 rounds. Last try was with 10 rds of Federal HST, one FTF at round #7. Total fired today 170 with 5 FTF. The gun now has a grand total of 520 rounds through it.
I was hoping the gun would have been 100% so I could start carrying it, at this point, with 5 intermittent failures I am not comfortable with it as a CCW. In order to clear the jam the mag has to be removed and the slide racked, then re-insert the mag and chamber a new round.
I called Kahr again and spoke with Rich for about 30 min, make a long story short he agreed the gun is not reliable and sent a pre paid shipping label. He said since its the second time in for repair they fast track it, he also requested that a copy of my Police ID be attached to the write up.
I love this gun, its so comfortable in my hand, very accurate but also very disappointing.
Ahh, well see what Kahr does this time. I added a note stating that when I was on the PD our guns had to function 100% all the time. I politely told them that this gun was unreliable as a defensive weapon, I also stated that based on consistent failures and previous repairs that did not correct ongoing problems, I am requesting a new firearm as a replacement. I will advise what happens. JL

[MLESa7990]

could some of those ftf possibly been from shooter fatigue? That's a lot of rounds of .45 in one sitting imo

[John Law]

I dont think so since they started happening early on. The first jam happened after the first 50 rds. I just started the WWB and was on my second mag, I fired a total of less than 60 rounds when it first happened. This has been an ongoing issue with this gun from day one.

[WMD]

Hmmmmm..... first 50 rounds were flawless, then two FTF's in next 60 rounds, then 2 more in next 50 rounds and so on. I would reconsider the hand fatigue suggestion from MLESa7990. I am no expert but do shoot a lot and have had that exact problem shooting a PM40. On the 40 my hand got tired after 20 to 25 rounds. These little guns are a bit different then duty sized guns or even my, oh so beloved, 1911.

I would think if there were functional issues with the gun, you would not have been able to go through 50 rounds flawlessly. You could try taking the gun to the range and with a "fresh" hand/wrist, only shooting 50 rounds through it. Then do it again on a different day. Do that a few times. If you do not see any failures during these sessions, one might conclude it is hand fatigue.

Just a suggestion.... :)

[Bill K]

I'm looking forward to reading a happy ending to this story. Kahr should make it right this time around.

[JFootin]

What I don't understand is when I see video reviews of these guns, and I see the reviewer holding the gun sideways and lightly between fingers and thumb, with the barrel pointed 90° to his right (or left if he's a lefty), and firing it to demonstrate perfect functioning in an extreme limp wristing demonstration. I have seen this done with small Kahrs and I think with a Kimber Solo. How come they can do that, but the rest of us have FTFs when our arms are just getting a little tired? Is that another proof of how massaged by the manufacturer the guns they get to test are? I think if the gun is really correct, it should feed reliably even when lightly held. And, you know, I think Greg's follower mod would make the gun perform that way, because it even fed reliably when slowly hand racking.

http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=113243&postcount=1

[Bawanna]

I believe that Kahr puts LE gun repairs at the front of the line, they have done so for me before.
Non LE folks probably don't care much for it but I think it's the right thing to do.
I'm sure there aren't that many LE guns in at any given time to matter anyhow.

[O'Dell]

What I don't understand is when I see video reviews of these guns, and I see the reviewer holding the gun sideways and lightly between fingers and thumb, with the barrel pointed 90° to his right (or left if he's a lefty), and firing it to demonstrate perfect functioning in an extreme limp wristing demonstration. I have seen this done with small Kahrs and I think with a Kimber Solo. How come they can do that, but the rest of us have FTFs when our arms are just getting a little tired? Is that another proof of how massaged by the manufacturer the guns they get to test are? I think if the gun is really correct, it should feed reliably even when lightly held. And, you know, I think Greg's follower mod would make the gun perform that way, because it even fed reliably when slowly hand racking.

http://kahrtalk.com/showpost.php?p=113243&postcount=1

When I got my first Kahr, a CW9, five years ago I did just that to try to get it to fail. I had recently had a bad experience with a Taurus Slim 9mm. I was unsuccessful in getting the CW to fail.

[jocko]

how do u know they moved u to the front thinking u a leo instead of maybe moving you to the front thinking u are a a-hole and they want to get them outta there "pronto"

Just asking?????? As last time I sent a gun into kahr, I told them I knew Bawanna and it took 6 months to get it back:behindsofa:

[apdturbo]

what does sending in your police ID have to do with anything?

[MLESa7990]

To prove you are LE?

[Bawanna]

how do u know they moved u to the front thinking u a leo instead of maybe moving you to the front thinking u are a a-hole and they want to get them outta there "pronto"

Just asking?????? As last time I sent a gun into kahr, I told them I knew Bawanna and it took 6 months to get it back:behindsofa:

Fortunately for everyone, I don't think anyone at Kahr knows or gives a wooden nickel for anything related to a Bawanna.

Maybe the word bawanna confused them and your probably lucky you ever got it back at all. Gotta think positive.

[JFootin]

Fortunately for everyone, I don't think anyone at Kahr knows or gives a wooden nickel for anything related to a Bawanna.

Maybe the word bawanna confused them and your probably lucky you ever got it back at all. Gotta think positive.

Yeah, Jocko, they might have got the impression that you think you are Tarzan, calling people Bawanna. :hippie:

[Bawanna]

Yeah, Jocko, they might have got the impression that you think you are Tarzan, calling people Bawanna. :hippie:

You mean Jocko really isn't Tarzan?:eek: If you tell me there's no such thing as the Easter Bunny your gonna see a grown man cry.

[jocko]

Now the nice thing about Tarzan was jane jane jane jane. I (tarzan) had to stay close to the"vine" though as my pet chimp and Jane I thought were getting to damn close, so I had to put a stop to that, so Idid what Most good guys would have done. "I CHOKED THE MONKEY" !!! AND BEAT THE FOKKER TO DEATH!!!

[John Law]

I'll try to hit on all the questions from the above posts.
Again, I dont think fatigue was a caues of the problem, specifically because this gun has had the same issues since I first purchased it. I was told by the rep that since this was a second time in for repair Kahr does try to expedite the process. I actually spent about 30 minutes on the phone with the him trying to find a possible solution to the problem, possibly something we may have overlooked, in the end he advised me to send the gun back. The shipping label was E mailed as we spoke. Regarding the Police ID, I only did what the rep advised me to do, I have no idea what it will accomplish or why he wanted it included with the gun. I also do not know what Kahrs policy is towards LE. My guess is the repair will probably take 3-4 weeks maybe longer, especially with the holidays coming. I will post when I have any news. JL

[John Law]

Jocko the rep told me that if you and Bawanna couldnt help me fix this gun he is doubtful Kahr will be able to fix it either.

[Bawanna]

Jocko the rep told me that if you and Bawanna couldnt help me fix this gun he is doubtful Kahr will be able to fix it either.

Now that's a scary damn thought right there. I suspect you'll see it sooner than 3-4 weeks but with the holidays and stuff I could be off.
I'm confident they'll get it right.

[jocko]

Tarzan can fix it, if kahr can't.

Monkey see, Monkey do. that saying came from the monkey watching Tarzan and jane through the bamboo hut window:D

[WMD]

I'll try to hit on all the questions from the above posts.
Again, I dont think fatigue was a caues of the problem, specifically because this gun has had the same issues since I first purchased it. I was told by the rep that since this was a second time in for repair Kahr does try to expedite the process. I actually spent about 30 minutes on the phone with the him trying to find a possible solution to the problem, possibly something we may have overlooked, in the end he advised me to send the gun back. The shipping label was E mailed as we spoke. Regarding the Police ID, I only did what the rep advised me to do, I have no idea what it will accomplish or why he wanted it included with the gun. I also do not know what Kahrs policy is towards LE. My guess is the repair will probably take 3-4 weeks maybe longer, especially with the holidays coming. I will post when I have any news. JL

Thanks for the further clarification. Hopefully the problem will get resolved one way or the other. :) It just seemed odd to me that the gun would work 50 times oin a row then, in the next 60 shots, have two failures almost 60 shots apart. Again, if there was a mechanical problem, I would think it would show itself more frequently then that. That has been my experience with other guns I have worked on anyway.

In any case, you are dealing with the exxpewrts (Kahr) so I am sure the issue will get resolved.

I read Jfootin's post about someone on youtube holding a PM45 lightly between a couple of fingertips. I have never seen that myself. They must have strong fingertips! :D I do know that you will not hold a PM40 like that. It will either fly out of your fingers or will not feed properly. I would suspect that a PM45 can't be too much different then a PM40. I will look for that youtube clip. :)

[WMD]

Just re-read my post and noticed the spelling errors. Yikes! :o Sorry about that! I have big hands and am typing on a netbook.

(actually, I really am Jocko under another alias..... I guess I have been busted) :D

[jocko]

misspelling can be addictive!!!
WMD, u really do not want that label put on u either. some people just cannot handle it..

[WMD]

I think you are right Jocko! I will try harder! :D

[John Law]

WMD you mention about PM40 recoil. I have been thinking of buying one after I sort out my PM45. Can you give me an idea of what the recoil is like? I have shot an MK40, a Glock 27 and an M&P in 357 Sig, is it similar to any of these? Thanks JL

[Kenjs2]

...In order to clear the jam the mag has to be removed and the slide racked, then re-insert the mag and chamber a new round...

Can you describe exactly what this jam looked like? By the way you cleared it it sounds a lot like the problem I had with mine. What was happening with mine was that the "pickup rail" (#9 in lube diagram) was not catching to edge of the cartridge. It would pass over the edge and jam up on the middle of the cartridge. The only way to clear it was what it sounds like you did. If this is your situation then it was a simple fix by Kahr and Greg(gb6491) posted his fix in the Kahr-Tech section under "CW45 (and other poly 45): issues and fixes"

[John Law]

Ken,
The cartridge starts to feed with the nose of the bullet in the chamber and always pointed at a slight up angle, then it jams the slide. You cannot rap the back of the slide to chamber the round, it wont budge. The mag has to be dropped and the slided racked back to clear the round. I did find that if I drop the mag slightly and then reseat it sometimes the round will chamber, not always though.