kubel
12-07-2011, 12:08 AM
Greetings KahrTalk.
tl;dr summary: I'm a happy new Kahr PM40 owner (but it took a while to get to that point, including being sold a used lemon as a new gun from a fairly reputable store).
For those that dare to read this never-ending post: This story starts with with the snap of a trigger- Smooth and crisp. Never have I experienced a DAO style trigger like it. It's what sold the PM40. I spent quite a bit of time with the display model- so much so that they started kicking people out and closing up. I told him "I'll take it". The sales associate at Cabela's went in the back room and came out with a case, opened it up, and let me fondle and inspect what would soon become... a lemon.
My better sense told me, "this is not the same trigger, it's nowhere near as smooth as the display model". As my thoughts manifested into spoken words, the guy behind the counter said something like, "Oh, that's just because the display model was dry fired thousands of times, this one is brand new so it'll feel better after it's broken in". It was about 10 minutes past closing, so I hurried up and filled out the paperwork for my purchase (one PM40 and one PPS [my second PPS actually, this time in .40]).
When I got home and dry fired it a few times, I just couldn't ignore the fact that what sold the gun wasn't present on the gun I got. There was no smooth trigger, no crisp break. But before I spent too much time worrying about that, I noticed something that I can't believe I didn't notice in the store. The front sight was bent!
To make a long story short, I emailed Kahr (rather than take it back to Cabela's) and had them fix it. Maybe, my hope was, they would send it back with some night sights ::insert evil grin::. Two weeks later, they sent it back. No night sights, and the sight was still not 100% level. It was leaning to the left, but just not as bad. I could live with it.
Time to take it to the range (finally)! I fired 5 shots. Trigger sucked. It took very careful trigger control. "It will break in," I reminded myself. I loaded up 5 more in the magazine and shot them. Trigger still sucked. "Ok, it will take time... lots and lots of rounds," I kept telling myself. I went to load what I thought would be my 11th round, and then my 12th round, into the flush magazine and discovered my new 5 round magazine was now a 1 round magazine. After only 10 rounds fired, the follower broke, and wouldn't let me put any more than 1 round into it. I switched to my extended magazine and put about 100 rounds through the gun with no further failures- No failures to feed, eject, and I couldn't get it to fail to enter battery (the one problem I was expecting).
After emailing Kahr again, I started examining my PM40 to try to figure out why the trigger sucked so much. While pulling the trigger, I noticed the slide lifts slightly from the back of the frame at the exact point that the trigger feels like it's getting hung up (probably the point where the mechanism in the frame sweeps across the striker block safety). It looked to me like it wasn't aligned correctly, as if it was too close and was forcing the frame and slide apart, causing the trigger to get hung up and making it feel lousy.
Kahr sent me two replacement followers, but one of the replacements was getting hung up on the little metal piece that sticks out of the follower. It was getting caught on the lip of the magazine, which, just like with a broke follower, prevented me from loading more than 1 round. I decided to open the manual and actually read it to see if there was any mention about the magazine followers, or any mention about the trigger. And that's where I found it. Tucked behind the manual was an 8.5x11 piece of paper, folded twice, that detailed how the gun had been sent by Cabela's to Kahr for repairs for failure to lock the slide back on last round. I was sold a used gun! A used gun that has previous problems, no less!
Problem is, since I had to wait for Kahr to make repairs, I was out of my 30 day window to return the gun for an exchange at Cabela's. I contacted Cabela's customer service and detailed everything that I knew, and explained how I thought they sold me a used gun as new. I was told I would receive a response from the store in 1-2 business days. About a week later, I got a call from Joe Ross, store manager at Cabela's in Dundee, MI. He apologized for the mix up, admitted that somehow I was sold a used gun, and suggested I take it back for a replacement.
When I arrived at the gun check-in station, the guy asked for my receipt and then tried suggesting it was beyond 30 days, thus no return. Ugh. I managed to finally convince him I was told by the store manager to bring it back, so he escorted me and my gun to the gun counter where the people there were just as clueless. "We sold you a used gun as new? That's not possible." I showed him the paper detailing the repair that had Cabela's name and address on it. "Oh, that's just telling you that we sent the gun back for repairs, it was never sold to anyone". No, because it states on the paper that the slide doesn't lock back ON THE LAST ROUND. Since when does Cabela's do test firing of new guns? Since I didn't think I was getting anywhere, I told him politely that the manager approved of the return, so it really didn't matter. It was about at this point that a supervisor that was aware of the situation stepped in and got me hooked up with a replacement. I examined this replacement for several minutes and made sure everything was 100% before I signed off on it. Ahh, smooth, crisp trigger!
I got home and immediately tried loading it with my ammo of choice (Hydra-Shok) and discovered it wasn't ejecting unspent rounds. It was as if the slide was getting hung up just before clearance was made to eject the round, and it wouldn't let me rack it back any further. At that point, the round was getting partially ejected, but jams on the barrel. And it did it on every round. I tried PDX ammo as well- same problem.
To rule out strong spring tension (or me being a weakling) as being the cause, I re-assembled the gun without the recoil spring. I was still able to reproduce the problem. Then I decided to assemble it without the take down pin / slide release lever. As soon as this was removed, I was able to rack the slide back fully and eject every single round. So, another email to Kahr, and another 2 week wait as it went through repairs...
Kahr sent it back. They reworked the barrel link and polished the ramp while they were at it. I tested it to make sure it worked, and on the first ejected round, it hung up. I laughed at my misfortune (no point getting mad or frustrated). But after this, I couldn't get it to hang up. It ejected every live round without a problem. So, I took it to the range (where I met a Kahr PM9 shooter and KahrTalk member in the lane right next to me). 80 rounds of fun later, I left there with a 100% functioning Kahr PM40. :)
Despite the smaller size, I'm just as accurate with the Kahr PM40 as I am with either my 9mm or .40 Walter PPS's. It also conceals a lot better. And to be honest, recoil isn't really that bad. In fact, I think it's more comfortable to shoot than even the 9mm PPS.
I'm still hesitant to recommend Kahr since I think they have some quality control issues to work on, but I can say I'm quite happy with this one now that it works. Also, my thanks go out to store manager Joe Ross at Cabela's in Dundee. Customer satisfaction is something they take seriously.
PS: I also noticed that due to the way Cabela's put the gun exchange through their system, they re-applied the Cabela's points to my account, even though I didn't spend a penny more there. Free money to buy more ammo with. :D
tl;dr summary: I'm a happy new Kahr PM40 owner (but it took a while to get to that point, including being sold a used lemon as a new gun from a fairly reputable store).
For those that dare to read this never-ending post: This story starts with with the snap of a trigger- Smooth and crisp. Never have I experienced a DAO style trigger like it. It's what sold the PM40. I spent quite a bit of time with the display model- so much so that they started kicking people out and closing up. I told him "I'll take it". The sales associate at Cabela's went in the back room and came out with a case, opened it up, and let me fondle and inspect what would soon become... a lemon.
My better sense told me, "this is not the same trigger, it's nowhere near as smooth as the display model". As my thoughts manifested into spoken words, the guy behind the counter said something like, "Oh, that's just because the display model was dry fired thousands of times, this one is brand new so it'll feel better after it's broken in". It was about 10 minutes past closing, so I hurried up and filled out the paperwork for my purchase (one PM40 and one PPS [my second PPS actually, this time in .40]).
When I got home and dry fired it a few times, I just couldn't ignore the fact that what sold the gun wasn't present on the gun I got. There was no smooth trigger, no crisp break. But before I spent too much time worrying about that, I noticed something that I can't believe I didn't notice in the store. The front sight was bent!
To make a long story short, I emailed Kahr (rather than take it back to Cabela's) and had them fix it. Maybe, my hope was, they would send it back with some night sights ::insert evil grin::. Two weeks later, they sent it back. No night sights, and the sight was still not 100% level. It was leaning to the left, but just not as bad. I could live with it.
Time to take it to the range (finally)! I fired 5 shots. Trigger sucked. It took very careful trigger control. "It will break in," I reminded myself. I loaded up 5 more in the magazine and shot them. Trigger still sucked. "Ok, it will take time... lots and lots of rounds," I kept telling myself. I went to load what I thought would be my 11th round, and then my 12th round, into the flush magazine and discovered my new 5 round magazine was now a 1 round magazine. After only 10 rounds fired, the follower broke, and wouldn't let me put any more than 1 round into it. I switched to my extended magazine and put about 100 rounds through the gun with no further failures- No failures to feed, eject, and I couldn't get it to fail to enter battery (the one problem I was expecting).
After emailing Kahr again, I started examining my PM40 to try to figure out why the trigger sucked so much. While pulling the trigger, I noticed the slide lifts slightly from the back of the frame at the exact point that the trigger feels like it's getting hung up (probably the point where the mechanism in the frame sweeps across the striker block safety). It looked to me like it wasn't aligned correctly, as if it was too close and was forcing the frame and slide apart, causing the trigger to get hung up and making it feel lousy.
Kahr sent me two replacement followers, but one of the replacements was getting hung up on the little metal piece that sticks out of the follower. It was getting caught on the lip of the magazine, which, just like with a broke follower, prevented me from loading more than 1 round. I decided to open the manual and actually read it to see if there was any mention about the magazine followers, or any mention about the trigger. And that's where I found it. Tucked behind the manual was an 8.5x11 piece of paper, folded twice, that detailed how the gun had been sent by Cabela's to Kahr for repairs for failure to lock the slide back on last round. I was sold a used gun! A used gun that has previous problems, no less!
Problem is, since I had to wait for Kahr to make repairs, I was out of my 30 day window to return the gun for an exchange at Cabela's. I contacted Cabela's customer service and detailed everything that I knew, and explained how I thought they sold me a used gun as new. I was told I would receive a response from the store in 1-2 business days. About a week later, I got a call from Joe Ross, store manager at Cabela's in Dundee, MI. He apologized for the mix up, admitted that somehow I was sold a used gun, and suggested I take it back for a replacement.
When I arrived at the gun check-in station, the guy asked for my receipt and then tried suggesting it was beyond 30 days, thus no return. Ugh. I managed to finally convince him I was told by the store manager to bring it back, so he escorted me and my gun to the gun counter where the people there were just as clueless. "We sold you a used gun as new? That's not possible." I showed him the paper detailing the repair that had Cabela's name and address on it. "Oh, that's just telling you that we sent the gun back for repairs, it was never sold to anyone". No, because it states on the paper that the slide doesn't lock back ON THE LAST ROUND. Since when does Cabela's do test firing of new guns? Since I didn't think I was getting anywhere, I told him politely that the manager approved of the return, so it really didn't matter. It was about at this point that a supervisor that was aware of the situation stepped in and got me hooked up with a replacement. I examined this replacement for several minutes and made sure everything was 100% before I signed off on it. Ahh, smooth, crisp trigger!
I got home and immediately tried loading it with my ammo of choice (Hydra-Shok) and discovered it wasn't ejecting unspent rounds. It was as if the slide was getting hung up just before clearance was made to eject the round, and it wouldn't let me rack it back any further. At that point, the round was getting partially ejected, but jams on the barrel. And it did it on every round. I tried PDX ammo as well- same problem.
To rule out strong spring tension (or me being a weakling) as being the cause, I re-assembled the gun without the recoil spring. I was still able to reproduce the problem. Then I decided to assemble it without the take down pin / slide release lever. As soon as this was removed, I was able to rack the slide back fully and eject every single round. So, another email to Kahr, and another 2 week wait as it went through repairs...
Kahr sent it back. They reworked the barrel link and polished the ramp while they were at it. I tested it to make sure it worked, and on the first ejected round, it hung up. I laughed at my misfortune (no point getting mad or frustrated). But after this, I couldn't get it to hang up. It ejected every live round without a problem. So, I took it to the range (where I met a Kahr PM9 shooter and KahrTalk member in the lane right next to me). 80 rounds of fun later, I left there with a 100% functioning Kahr PM40. :)
Despite the smaller size, I'm just as accurate with the Kahr PM40 as I am with either my 9mm or .40 Walter PPS's. It also conceals a lot better. And to be honest, recoil isn't really that bad. In fact, I think it's more comfortable to shoot than even the 9mm PPS.
I'm still hesitant to recommend Kahr since I think they have some quality control issues to work on, but I can say I'm quite happy with this one now that it works. Also, my thanks go out to store manager Joe Ross at Cabela's in Dundee. Customer satisfaction is something they take seriously.
PS: I also noticed that due to the way Cabela's put the gun exchange through their system, they re-applied the Cabela's points to my account, even though I didn't spend a penny more there. Free money to buy more ammo with. :D