CM9 Just my Opinion - New Owner

[John222]

Just to put things in context, I'm no gun expert. Definitely have less experience that the majority of people here. But here goes...

So far I only have about 250 rounds thru this gun. Not even one issue with FTE, FTF or slide locks, but I don't shoot defensive ammo. I frequently sling shot a load in without any issues. But once again, I'm not shooting defensive ammo. Fit and finish is great. As far a looks, this is a very attractive handgun.

ON the down side, the mag fails to eject just like most others here. I just did the pinch mod and corrected this problem. But I shouldn't have had to do that. And just because they say it's OK in the manual, doesn't make it OK. To me it's important in the event I get into a situation where someone is trying to wrestle the gun away from me. I want to be able to eject the mag so it's it's more difficult for them to shoot me with my own dam gun.

On to the trigger. It feels great. Some people complain about it being long, but I don't have an issue with that. I think the problem is the distance from the back of the grip to the trigger (at the break point) is too short. When I get the trigger to the break point my finger is in a awkward position that causes me to loose control. It's just kind of an awkward angle. Just for an experiment, I folded up a peice of paper towel to about a 1/4" and put it on the back spine of the handle to pull my hand back a bit and it made a 100% improvement in my grip and control at the triggers break point. I might try to make my own Hogue grip with a bike inner tube to I can add some more length to the back spine.

Sights.. Oh my, they are awful. I know that very experience shooters here don't even use them, but I do. I don't know how you can get a decent grouping because the sight blocks most of the target. Especially on my gun. At 15yrds, I have to center the front dot with the top of the rear sight line and put the dot dead center with the bulls eye. Well, thats now blocking most of the target. If I decide to keep this gun, these sight will have to be replaced. Or at least replace the front with a narrow night sight.

Overall, I have a love hate relationship with this handgun. I plan to put another few hundred rounds thru it and if by then I still can shoot with any consistency, I may have to sell it. It's a great handgun, it may just not be a good fit for me.

[bonjorno2]

to each his own.....

[jocko]

to critical IMO. 95% seem content with the sights, The magazie issue, u corrected it, . certainly IMO not a game changer either way. Mine has never dropped freely and I know the fix and choose to leave it the way it is. To many scenarios for me also. U need to give the gun more time also It is flawless so far, that is a plus, this other stuff istrivial, cetainly correctable yourself..

[Ikeo74]

Dropping the mag to a BG grabbing your gun still gives him 1 round to nail you with center chest. I would rather take the chance of me gaining control and give the BG a couple or three close up 9mm taps. (2 to the chest & one to the head).:third:

[jocko]

indeed kahrs do not have a magazine disconnet in them, other than the komifornia P380..

[Hognutz]

Indeed. If you get in a hand to hand combat situation, the last thing you are going to do is take time to drop your mag. Why in the world would you unload your gun in a fight?

[jocko]

good question Hognutz!!!

[cgff]

Nice no ftf,fte's !!
Arent these CM9's great little CCW's :D

[mightymouse]

If its not a good fit then go for another. At least you got to rule one out. Nothing blasphemous about not loving a Kahr. It took me a while to get used to the CM sights, but can produce groupings now from 5-8 yds as good as anything I carry and ok for up close work. There are some nice aftermarket sights from Dawson Precision, but not sure they will solve your problem. My CM9 just drops mags where I can grab them out and go again. I'm not enough of a Combat Cody to make use of those 100ths of seconds anyway. My CM9 isn't my favorite gun to shoot, but it is my favorite gun to carry. Tight, reliable, stellar trigger, and one I can shoot accurately.
If you have a range with rentals, you might find the perfect match with less money out. Good luck.

[Hognutz]

I agree, wholeheartedly. I'd much rather shoot my Sig 229 in .40., but the Kahr is a dream to carry..Your not going to find a midget 9mm with a great short stroke trigger, no safety, easy to carry, that shoots 1'' groups at 30 yards. One or the other. 10 yards and in, the Kahr all day long..

[Bill K]

Your approach sounds reasoned to me, stick with it a bit longer and if it doesn't grow on you then move on. Nothing wrong with that.

[exdetsgt]

As a former LEO I have never, until now, heard of anyone wanting to drop their magazine while in the midst of a gun-grabber event. In the first place there's still one in the chamber so you're gonna get shot anyway.. If there isn't one in the chamber then a) you shot all your ammo, the chamber is empty, the mag is empty and dropping it or not is a moot point, or b) you are walking around with an empty chamber and a full magazine and why anyone would want to carry a semi-auto in that fashion is beyond me.

Which brings me to a question: Does Kahr make an extended mag release like Glock does?

[Hognutz]

I concur. If things get hairy I want to be able to drop my mag so the perp can't shoot me with my own gun..Are you kiddin' me??

[Bawanna]

There was actually some good in the old Smiths with the mag disconnects. I didn't much care for it but if you dump the mag the gun becomes a paper weight. Won't fire with out a mag. A pain when you want to work on one or dry fire etc.

[JimC]

Just to put things in context, I'm no gun expert. Definitely have less experience that the majority of people here. But here goes...

So far I only have about 250 rounds thru this gun. Not even one issue with FTE, FTF or slide locks, but I don't shoot defensive ammo. I frequently sling shot a load in without any issues. But once again, I'm not shooting defensive ammo. Fit and finish is great. As far a looks, this is a very attractive handgun.

ON the down side, the mag fails to eject just like most others here. I just did the pinch mod and corrected this problem. But I shouldn't have had to do that. And just because they say it's OK in the manual, doesn't make it OK. To me it's important in the event I get into a situation where someone is trying to wrestle the gun away from me. I want to be able to eject the mag so it's it's more difficult for them to shoot me with my own dam gun.

On to the trigger. It feels great. Some people complain about it being long, but I don't have an issue with that. I think the problem is the distance from the back of the grip to the trigger (at the break point) is too short. When I get the trigger to the break point my finger is in a awkward position that causes me to loose control. It's just kind of an awkward angle. Just for an experiment, I folded up a peice of paper towel to about a 1/4" and put it on the back spine of the handle to pull my hand back a bit and it made a 100% improvement in my grip and control at the triggers break point. I might try to make my own Hogue grip with a bike inner tube to I can add some more length to the back spine.

Sights.. Oh my, they are awful. I know that very experience shooters here don't even use them, but I do. I don't know how you can get a decent grouping because the sight blocks most of the target. Especially on my gun. At 15yrds, I have to center the front dot with the top of the rear sight line and put the dot dead center with the bulls eye. Well, thats now blocking most of the target. If I decide to keep this gun, these sight will have to be replaced. Or at least replace the front with a narrow night sight.

Overall, I have a love hate relationship with this handgun. I plan to put another few hundred rounds thru it and if by then I still can shoot with any consistency, I may have to sell it. It's a great handgun, it may just not be a good fit for me.

For the most part, an honest straight forward opinion based on facts.
IMO, the CM9 should be a very good pistol right out of the box...but for many, it isn't.

[Hognutz]

I have no problem with his critique. It is, for the most part, straightforward. If he just would have said that he prefers his mag to drop, instead of adding why he prefers his mags to drop, it all would have been believable. That sentence cost him some credibility..

[John222]

Guys, as an engineer I think of every conceivable situation and all the possible outcomes. Life is not black and white. Here in PA you just can't go around brandishing a weapon when an unarmed idiot threatens you. A confrontation can escalate in a non linear fashion taking you by surprise. In my case, I'm just a small guy and not likely to win a struggle. If that happens you can drop the clip and fire the chambered round and buy yourself some time. Obviously, this is not a desired action, but one that may sometime be necessary. Life is not black and white.

But, back to my original post. After another trip to the range yesterday, I have discovered that my shooting accuracy problem (low and to the left) is me, not the sights (even though I still don't like them). I am indeed pulling down when the trigger breaks. I spent the day working on my grip to solve this problem. By the end of a hour, I was at least hitting the target from 15 yds. That's a big improvement.

I just wanted to follow up, since so many potential buyers look at these forums prior to purchasing and I didn't want to post inaccurate info.

John

[mr surveyor]

John... being an engineer you can probably figure out a very old trick for the length of pull problem. You can build up the backstrap by constructing a very functional "grip sleeve" with a bit of double stick tape, a strip of material cut off of a mouse pad, and a short piece of bicycle inner tube. With a bit of care these can look as good, or better than commercial products, and you can adjust the depth/thickness of the grip backstrap to your own needs. This was something done by Kel-Tec owners (and others with similar pistol designs) for many years.

necessity is the mother of invention


surv

[sierrajb]

Glad you're willing to give the gun another chance. Something to think about:

1. The CM9 is NOT a competition target/range gun.
2. In a real-life SD situation, it won't matter if the front sight is in the very CENTER of the BG's forehead or heart. Anywhere close should get the job done.
3. Very few SD situations give us ample time to zero in on the front sight like we practice at the range. That's not to minimize the importance of accurate sights, but to put into perspective the real need to have that front sight in the right GENERAL area at the right time.

[jocko]

snap caps thrown in with 30 good rounds and loaded anywhere in ones magazine will certainly show one's shooter errors.

I think sierrajb, makes aq hell of alot of sense..

[John222]

snap caps thrown in with 30 good rounds and loaded anywhere in ones magazine will certainly show one's shooter errors.

I think sierrajb, makes aq hell of alot of sense..


I've done that and I can see my error, but I just can't seem to stop it. As I initially proposed, I can minimize it with a padded grip sleeve, but I would rather correct my grip than putting a band-aid on the gun.

[jocko]

oh, no sh-t. If my kahr trigger was polymer,I would have snapped it in two a hundred times with the snap cap drills. Sometimes we are what we are to and not much can change that. No doubt for me kahrs looooong trigger is my fault, as I can shoot my G19 right along side of my K9 even and the G19 just amazes me and the K9 simply says, yup jocko, U SUCK!!

I accept that from either. I just lower my expecatations when I go out with my PM9.:puke:

[CJB]

".....Sights.. Oh my, they are awful. I know that very experience shooters here don't even use them, but I do. I don't know how you can get a decent grouping because the sight blocks most of the target. Especially on my gun. At 15yrds, I have to center the front dot with the top of the rear sight line and put the dot dead center with the bulls eye. Well, thats now blocking most of the target. If I decide to keep this gun, these sight will have to be replaced. Or at least replace the front with a narrow night sight......"

You might find that more shooting helps, and that the sight hold "problem" is actually a trigger/trigger-finger problem. Being used to a crisp SA trigger, I needed a LOT of practice to get any sort of proficiency with my PM45. Once the finger got itself "dialed in" to what it needed to do, the groups shrank, and I use a center hold up to 50 feet away... after that I cant say, as I've not shot further than 50 feet at the local (indoor) range.

[smike308]

Sights.. Oh my, they are awful. I know that very experience shooters here don't even use them, but I do. I don't know how you can get a decent grouping because the sight blocks most of the target. Especially on my gun. At 15yrds, I have to center the front dot with the top of the rear sight line and put the dot dead center with the bulls eye. Well, thats now blocking most of the target. If I decide to keep this gun, these sight will have to be replaced. Or at least replace the front with a narrow night sight.

.
Try using your sights as if the dot/bar are not there. Using a conventional sight picture/sight alignment I would want the point of impact to be just above the point of aim.

[kahrinca]

If I were a cop I'd want a mag disconnect if I felt the perp in a struggle was getting the gun away from my hands and no chance to get off a shot in the meantime. I think it's great! It appears too may LEO's have retention struggles and many seem to lose control of the firearms in the many videos I've seen.

[TriggerMan]

I've done that and I can see my error, but I just can't seem to stop it. As I initially proposed, I can minimize it with a padded grip sleeve, but I would rather correct my grip than putting a band-aid on the gun. From a guy who had similar issues with his PM9...It ain't your grip. You are simply anticipating. Once learned, it takes time to erase and its not easy. The gun is light, the muzzle wants to flip, your brain is expecting it. FOCUS. It's mind over matter. Are you Ok with heavier guns? What about SA triggers? Personally, I never flinch with a 15 oz 380, I rarely do with heavier 9mm or even 1911 .45s.

Dry fire helps a little and can fix poor trigger control but there is no recoil or noise, so fixing a flinch means going to the range. Doubling up on hearing protection helps some people. Good luck.

P.S. I sold my PM9. I was hot and cold with it and gave up. I just shoot my Sig P238 .380 so well as I do an HK P7, why fight it. Even my SIG 1911 RCS is can't miss.

[Markis82]

Try using your sights as if the dot/bar are not there. Using a conventional sight picture/sight alignment I would want the point of impact to be just above the point of aim.Yup, like this:

[muggsy]

There was actually some good in the old Smiths with the mag disconnects. I didn't much care for it but if you dump the mag the gun becomes a paper weight. Won't fire with out a mag. A pain when you want to work on one or dry fire etc.

If in that situation your gun becomes a paper weight all you have to worry about is being beaten to death with it. :) That's why I carry a backup.

[muggsy]

I have no problem with his critique. It is, for the most part, straightforward. If he just would have said that he prefers his mag to drop, instead of adding why he prefers his mags to drop, it all would have been believable. That sentence cost him some credibility..

I prefer my mags to drop free, but for a different reason. I want to be able to reload a fresh mag quickly in case seven is not enough.

[John222]

From a guy who had similar issues with his PM9...It ain't your grip. You are simply anticipating. Once learned, it takes time to erase and its not easy. The gun is light, the muzzle wants to flip, your brain is expecting it. FOCUS. It's mind over matter. Are you Ok with heavier guns? What about SA triggers? Personally, I never flinch with a 15 oz 380, I rarely do with heavier 9mm or even 1911 .45s.

Dry fire helps a little and can fix poor trigger control but there is no recoil or noise, so fixing a flinch means going to the range. Doubling up on hearing protection helps some people. Good luck.

P.S. I sold my PM9. I was hot and cold with it and gave up. I just shoot my Sig P238 .380 so well as I do an HK P7, why fight it. Even my SIG 1911 RCS is can't miss.


You were right, I was anticipating and a bit of a flinch. I pretty much worked that out. Then I had a few issues with grip consistency, since I have skinny hands. Anyway I added a $10 Hogue Jr. grip sleeve and that took care of that. Now I'm shooting about 3 inches below the bulls eye at 50 feet. I'm happy with that. I know I still have a few habits to work out which should get me to dead center.

Well to wrap thing up ... It was me and not the gun. Now that I have about 400 round thru it, I'm even getting used to the sights. Lastly mechanically the gun is perfect. Not one problem with the 400 round so far.

Thanks to everyone for the help.