Might be a lot of K9's on the market soon...

[Thunder71]

Of course it's the guns fault, not the person handling the firearm:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nypd-brass-cops-stop-kahr-k-9-semi-automatic-pistol-off-duty-gun-article-1.990037



The NYPD has instructed cops to stop carrying an off-duty gun that has a trigger so light it’s been blamed for a series of accidental discharges, the Daily News has learned.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/nypd-brass-cops-stop-kahr-k-9-semi-automatic-pistol-off-duty-gun-article-1.990037#ixzz1gL5Dlqzy

[MLESa7990]

Wow, that's pretty much laughable on the part of the NYPD.


No such thing as an accidental discharge with these pistols.

That's called a negligent discharge.

[Ressom]

This statement made me giggle a little:





Police departments generally require a heavier pull because they want officers to realize the serious nature of opening fire.

[jocko]

FORREST GUNP; STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.

Evidently NYPD cops don't know what keeping their bugger finger out of harms way means... 13# trigger, give me a break here please, Guarantee u the glocks they carry do not come even close to 13#. Sounds like maybe kahr quit paying someone under the table . Probably in the long run will save kahr hundreds of thousands of dollars, as they were also providing to the NYPD. free parts and service over the years for K9 carrying officers.

[OldLincoln]

That is likely to be an example of the "Blue Code" covering up LEO errors. Of course it's the gun's fault, although with competent instruction and competent LEO actions it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

[FLBri]

This statement made me giggle a little:

Quote:


Police departments generally require a heavier pull because they want officers to realize the serious nature of opening fire.


The implication being that the professionals need to be reminded of the seriousness ... but it's ok for us ignorant citizens to be totally callous about it and enjoy our life threatening light triggers.

Did Nancy Pelosi make this statement? ... or Joe Biden?

[bikerbill]

I've read for years that many officers are not gun fans and don't do any more shooting than is absolutely required by their departments. I'm guessing that's part of the problem here; but if you keep your finger off the trigger until it's time to shoot, how can the gun go off accidently?

[JohnR]

So if I'm ever in NYC and a cop pulls me over and wants to take my K9 from me "for officer safety," do I laugh my ass off in his face?

[Bawanna]

I've read for years that many officers are not gun fans and don't do any more shooting than is absolutely required by their departments. I'm guessing that's part of the problem here; but if you keep your finger off the trigger until it's time to shoot, how can the gun go off accidently?

You pretty much got it. There are so many liabilities in police business or any business for that matter that I think 90% of their efforts are covering their backside.
Also most of these ridiculous rules are created by the brass who look like little Napoleans and rarely leave the safety of their office and desk.
Have to keep in mind that cops are afflicted with massive doses of adrenaline during encounters as well and while the finger off the trigger is the best safety under stress I think one leans to at least covering the trigger.
It's sad that they require such awful trigger pulls so if they do decide they have to shoot they likely won't hit anything anyhow. Course then the same little Napoleans wonder why their officers can't hit anything. A vicious circle that constantly repeats itself.
Seems the larger the city, the more ridiculous the rules.

[espresso]

13# trigger, give me a break here please, Guarantee u the glocks they carry do not come even close to 13#.

Kahrs hair trigger???....After shooting my CW9 and my dads Glock 19 on the same day it seems it would be MUCH easier to AD a Glock than a K9…unless they super glue the Glocks trigger.

[jocko]

someone didn't pay off someone, if the truth be known..

[el_chupo_]

You guys do realize that Glock makes several different trigger springs and connectors?

IIRC, They have a NY-1 and NY-2, which results in pulls around 8# and 11#. Numbers may be off, and cannot look it up at work, but I seem to remember that most have a factory trigger at ~5.5lbs, with option lighter (3.5lb) and heavier trigger parts available for states that require it (NY)

Not saying this isnt a political or palm-greasing driven decision, but that it is true that they are used to carrying around a 11-12# triggered Glock 22.

[cgarcop]

You guys do realize that Glock makes several different trigger springs and connectors?

IIRC, They have a NY-1 and NY-2, which results in pulls around 8# and 11#. Numbers may be off, and cannot look it up at work, but I seem to remember that most have a factory trigger at ~5.5lbs, with option lighter (3.5lb) and heavier trigger parts available for states that require it (NY)

Not saying this isnt a political or palm-greasing driven decision, but that it is true that they are used to carrying around a 11-12# triggered Glock 22.

That is correct. NYPD has the 11# trigger in their Glocks and New York State troopers use the 8#. After retiring from NYPD, I replaced the 11# trigger spring in my glock 19 with the factory 5.5 spring. Shoots like a completely different gun now.

This nonsense between NYPD and kahr has been brewing for a few years now. The writing was on the wall when they didn't allow anyone else to acquire the K9, but allowed those who already owned one to continue carrying it. Once kahr support ended, the gun was un authorized for all.

I'm hoping there will be a glut in the market here so I can grab a used one cheap

[jocko]

their thinking back when the glocks were first introudced to NYPD to replace their wheel guns was to keep the trigger pull about the same as their wheel guns, which could make some sense but lets face it, these are grown fokking adults and if they cannot keep their bugger fingers out of the trigger area, then 11, 13 or 5 or 8# triggers are not worth a nats ass for safety. jCourse we are talking about the largest PD dept in the country with over 40K officers, so I also trhink that if NYPD tells glock they want a trigger system that also jerks off the officer at the same time he pulls the trigger, that glock will do their best to provide that accessory or loose business. In kahrs case the NYPD trigger was approved for many years, with the poundage that we see today, so what has changed???? Could it be the mentality of the NYPD officers has gotten worse???? Kahr had about 5K of off duty K9 carriers in the NYPD system, so probably not near as much a loss as if glock lost the contract of 40K guns to maybe someone like Kel Tec.

Just to me seems so dictorial. that any NYPD cop cannot carry when he is off duty WHAT EVER GUN HE SO DESIRES.

If u have ever shoot a Glock with the NYPD trigger in them, u either love it or hate it. Most that I have talked to , do not like it, for it does work very similar to pulling the trigger on a revolver.

cgarcop, no disrespect intended towards you will my "mentality" comment..

[JohnR]

The article vaguely states there were "more than a dozen" NDs (not "ADs" :rolleyes:) in the last few years with K9s. That's < 1/2 of 1% of the 5000 K9s in use by NYC cops.

Maybe Kahr simply decided they were quite successful enough selling to non LEOs, and didn't want to deal with government bureaucracies any more.

Jocko, the idea of 40,000 Kel Tecs in the hands of NYC cops is like a Twilight Zone episode! :eek:

[skater4790]

As retired NYPD Sergeant I’m a little pissed off! A NYPD police officer was shot and killed today in Brooklyn NY and all we can talk about is accidental discharge and trigger pull.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/nypd_officer_in_critical_condition_TlvyLlVqegcPKzw s6jOjhL

[jocko]

please don't take any of our comments about the K9 thing as a side show to this police officer getting killed. Speaking for myself, I feel the pain of what happened and until u posted this thread, I knew nothing about it.

[Thunder71]

As retired NYPD Sergeant I’m a little pissed off! A NYPD police officer was shot and killed today in Brooklyn NY and all we can talk about is accidental discharge and trigger pull.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/nypd_officer_in_critical_condition_TlvyLlVqegcPKzw s6jOjhL

Completely unrelated to this topic skater, but I feel for the family of that officer.

[Bawanna]

As retired NYPD Sergeant I’m a little pissed off! A NYPD police officer was shot and killed today in Brooklyn NY and all we can talk about is accidental discharge and trigger pull.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/nypd_officer_in_critical_condition_TlvyLlVqegcPKzw s6jOjhL

Skater, you'll find that most of us here and especially myself tend to side with the officers. Anything I can do to help my guys be victorious in any kind of fight I will do. I'd go out with them if they'd let me.
Providing officers with guns with lousy triggers they can't shoot rather than finding the funds to train them for survival and give them a workable gun is a crime in my book.

I too feel your pain and it rips my heart out every time I hear of an officer getting killed or even seriously hurt.

This thread is about lousy triggers, not officers.

[muggsy]

As retired NYPD Sergeant I’m a little pissed off! A NYPD police officer was shot and killed today in Brooklyn NY and all we can talk about is accidental discharge and trigger pull.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/nypd_officer_in_critical_condition_TlvyLlVqegcPKzw s6jOjhL

Sooner or later everyone of us is going to die. I feel no more pain for the loss of a police officer than I do for the loss of any law abiding citizen. Where does the Police Officers Union stand on this ruling? The city is telling its police officers that they are incompetent.

[Thunder71]

Let's try and get back to the nonsense of a gun going off by itself, says NYPD. :)

[JohnR]

Skater, you'll find that most of us here and especially myself tend to side with the officers. Anything I can do to help my guys be victorious in any kind of fight I will do. I'd go out with them if they'd let me.
Providing officers with guns with lousy triggers they can't shoot rather than finding the funds to train them for survival and give them a workable gun is a crime in my book.

I too feel your pain and it rips my heart out every time I hear of an officer getting killed or even seriously hurt.

This thread is about lousy triggers, not officers.
Glocks have lousy triggers? :cool:

[Bawanna]

Glocks have lousy triggers? :cool:

They do when you put the parts in to make them 8 or 11#'s. They aren't that bad at 5.5, pretty nice really and perfect for a duty gun. 3.5 is a tad light.

Our 21's all have the 5.5. So far no discharges negligent or otherwise.

[skater4790]

I know you guys support police officers, it just a bad day. As far as accidental discharge I had one when I was a police officer in NYC. The incident was my entire fault and not the gun. I showing another officer my new department issued Glock 19 and I had just unloaded the gun the wrong way (first ejected the round and then removed the magazine). I never handle a semi-auto before, I carried a revolver (S&W Model 10) most of my career and I just received three days of training (mostly shooting) on the Glock 19. Thank god nobody was hurt (point it in safe direction) and I never (like my wife says never say never) made that mistake again. So guns don’t go off by themselves.

[jocko]

aw, the ol Model 10. We sold alot of them in my early gun days with the heavy barrel. everyone arond in my area in law enforcement and security carried the model 10 and most carried the heavy barrel. That was some revolver back then, smoother than a nats ass and the blue finish u could see your face in it.

I really do understand and this forum definitely feels ur pain skater4790, no exlanation really needed IMO.

[jocko]

They do when you put the parts in to make them 8 or 11#'s. They aren't that bad at 5.5, pretty nice really and perfect for a duty gun. 3.5 is a tad light.

Our 21's all have the 5.5. So far no discharges negligent or otherwise.

my G19 has the 5.5# trigger in it, once I had the action smoothed out this gun is my best shooter. One has to respect a glock trigger no matter what the poundage is. I am not a good shot as most will realize from all my posts but my G19 that is well tuned, ported and with great Dawson fiber optic adjustable sights on it, is the finest shootin machine I have ever owned...

[Bawanna]

Bud's has a pile of Model 10's square butt and round butt for like 265 delivered. I'd love to have one myself but apparently there's a hole in the bottom of my marble sack. I'm suddenly very poor. I keep looking towards the water for my ship to come in but so far no sails in sight.

Skater most of the discharges I hear of around here are with Glocks at the academy at the cleaning station. Doing just what you did. They installed clearing stations at every cleaning area and god help ya if you don't have that gun Glock or otherwise in that clearing tube when you pull the trigger.

I have one at my desk for when the guys drop their guns off or what me to look at anything. I've had 3 loaded Beretta's dropped on my desk. No magazine, round in chamber. I practice safety but it still stops your heart when a cartridge flies out of a supposedly empty gun.

With Glock I don't check the chamber, I lock it open no matter what I'm doing or gonna do, no exceptions. Lock it open look thru the voids and then move on.

Your scenario of 3 days with a new gun and then go defend the streets of Gothingham is pretty typical and very sad. It's a pretty important tool and officers should get alot more time with them during a transition even if it's on their own at a range where they can get familiar. Many just don't care though and you have to drag em to the range just to do quals.

[jocko]

Had a good friend and customer 35 years+ ago trade in a Marlin Golden 39A. When I took the gun from him I just levered the action and out popped a live round. The magazine tube was full. Lost a friend and customer that day.

Hell Bawanna, I found out about 2 years ago that our 7 officer small ass police force (our town has no money) was carrying reloads in their assorted carry glocks of 40,9mm and 45 caliber. I went to wal-mart and bought the dept a 1000 rounds of wwb range fodder and a box of each caliber defense round. U would have thought I just saved 7 lives even.

[getsome]

My condolences to the NYPD Officers family and to the Virginia Tech Officer's family who's funeral was today....It's a crazy dangerous world we live in these days and myself as well as I'm sure every other member on KahrTalk support the Police Officers out there working to keep the mean streets safe for very little pay in return....We feel the pain as well....

I can't understand why they gave you so little training and range time when transitiioning from wheel guns over to Glocks...It's a miracle it didn't happen a whole lot more with the number of guns and Officers involved...

As for the AD you had it isn't the first time that has happened and I seem to remember seeing the video of the DEA agent shooting himself in the foot just after announcing that he was the only one there specially trained and qualified to handle a Glock in that classroom (BANG) so chit happens and thankfully in your case nobody was injured and I'm sure it was a learning experience and will never happen again...

[jocko]

In my gun/sporting goods/tire business we have a men's ****-er with a hold through the door where one of my customers went in to take a dump and must have been playing with his gun (wrong gun to) ad the damn thing went off and through the door. Looks like a peep hole but so easy to see the angle of tradjectory points right to the crapper to.

another ex-customer left and never returned and I didn't even have to say a word to him either, HE FOKKING KNEW he was gone.

[skater4790]

I miss my model 10. I used to carry it on duty in a swivel holster. I had speed loaders and carried the gun low. I felt like a cowboy walking around the streets of Brooklyn. When I was in the patrol car (RMP) I would place the holster in front of me (between my legs) so I could get to it quick. Talking about accidental discharge, one of my good friends and fellow officer was shining his shoes and playing with the hammer of his model 10 when the gun off and shot him in the foot.

[jocko]

skater, did u carry the Heavyu Barrel model or the standard barrel model The HB model was certainly attractive as hell compared to the skinny ass tapered barrel (if memoryt serves me right)

[skater4790]

It was the heavy barrel model. I was stupid I gave away to a young rookie who couldn't believe we used to carry these guns on patrol. You are right the trigger was sweet. I had a friend who carried the two inch model off duty.

[jocko]

humm, never seen a 2"HB model 10. Bet that would be a really cool peace..

[skater4790]

Here's a picture

[skater4790]

Here's another model 10 with two inch barrel. I found the pictures on the internet. But you could buy the two inch model (blue finish only) from the NYPD equipment section back in the old days.

[jocko]

I like the RB better. Sold model 15's with 2:" bbl back then but never the Model 10.

[JFootin]

Well, guys, let's file our taxes early and go buy out those Model 10 police trade-ins at Bud's. I checked one out at the local pawn shop and it had a smooth, light DA trigger. I know I'd like to have one for a house gun, seeing as how I am getting a Model 638 from Bud's, so I'll already be stocking .38 Special bullets. I'm like Bawanna, though, with a hole in my marble bag. Sigh. Maybe early next year. But then, there are the Kel-tec SUB-2000s at $305 that I just discovered, and CW45s going for around $350. Decisions, decisions. Oh, for a $1000 Christmas present, cash of course! :madgrin:

[JohnR]

...apparently there's a hole in the bottom of my marble sack. I'm suddenly very poor. I keep looking towards the water for my ship to come in but so far no sails in sight...
Maybe I can pay you to make me some nice wood grips for my Bersa. That might get you part way to a model 10. :)

[TriggerMan]

Wow, that's pretty much laughable on the part of the NYPD.


No such thing as an accidental discharge with these pistols.

That's called a negligent discharge.21 and 23 discharges the last two full years. A very, very small percentage but "0" is the only acceptable number.

As an aside, you couldn't give me a gun with a 13# trigger. A 7 # trigger in a proper holster used by a trained professional ought to be safe.

[Bawanna]

Maybe I can pay you to make me some nice wood grips for my Bersa. That might get you part way to a model 10. :)

I'll have to hunt down a Bersa. I'll add it to the hunt list.

[TriggerMan]

FORREST GUNP; STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES.

Evidently NYPD cops don't know what keeping their bugger finger out of harms way means... 13# trigger, give me a break here please, Guarantee u the glocks they carry do not come even close to 13#. Sounds like maybe kahr quit paying someone under the table . Probably in the long run will save kahr hundreds of thousands of dollars, as they were also providing to the NYPD. free parts and service over the years for K9 carrying officers.Glock's website shows optional "NY triggers" for Glocks and it is 11#, not good but still not 13#!

GLOCK TRIGGER SPRING
The optional GLOCK „New York“ trigger springs produce revolver-like trigger action, facilitating the acclimation from traditional revolvers to semi-automatics.


http://www.glock.com/images/opt_ts_standard.jpg
STANDARD All GLOCK pistols are delivered with a standard trigger spring from the factory. It guarantees constant trigger pull resistance over the entire trigger travel.


http://www.glock.com/images/opt_ts_ny1.jpg
N.Y.1 The GLOCK „New York“ trigger has its name from the New York Police Department. It facilitates officers changing from revolvers to pistols. Increases trigger pull weight from 2,5 kg / 5.5 lb. to 4,9 kg / 11 lb.


http://www.glock.com/images/opt_ts_ny2.jpg
N.Y.2 The N.Y.2 trigger spring is even harder than the N.Y.1 trigger spring. The user will obtain a continuous very hard revolver-like increase of the trigger pull weight from 3,2 kg / 7 lb. to 5 kg / 11 lb.

[jocko]

I can remember back many years ago , we sold our local sheriff's dept all G19 and my nephew who worked for me was a glock armorer. Back then they made only the 11# trigger for NYPD in the black color. anyway these sheriff's deputies thought they just had to have what the NYPD had in their guns, so we changed them all over to the NYPD triggers.

Wasn't a month later that we changed them all back to the standard glock triggers.

I didn't know back then or I have since forgotten (proably the last part) what the actual poundage of the NYPD trigger even was back then, other than the design was to copy the revolvers trigger pull.

[kahrinca]

I know you guys support police officers, it just a bad day. As far as accidental discharge I had one when I was a police officer in NYC. The incident was my entire fault and not the gun. I showing another officer my new department issued Glock 19 and I had just unloaded the gun the wrong way (first ejected the round and then removed the magazine). I never handle a semi-auto before, I carried a revolver (S&W Model 10) most of my career and I just received three days of training (mostly shooting) on the Glock 19. Thank god nobody was hurt (point it in safe direction) and I never (like my wife says never say never) made that mistake again. So guns don’t go off by themselves.

Here in California, and in order to purchase a new firearm, or in transfer of a used one (I believe), the law requires that all civilians pass a written test on guns and handling, gun laws, etc., and obtain what is known as a Handgun Safety Certificate (good for five years); also, when picking up any new firearm, buyer must demonstrate proper clearing of the weapon. I think that's a good thing!

See page 22:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf

[Bawanna]

Here in California the law requires that all civilians pass a written test on guns and handling, gun laws, etc., and obtain what is known as a Handgun Safety Certificate (good for five years); also, when picking up any new firearm, buyer must demonstrate proper clearing of the weapon. I think that's a good thing!

See page 22:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscsg.pdf

I think it's a good idea but I don't agree that it should be a law. I could live with a one time written test but no handling or proficiency test. This creates a need for more paid so called experts who may or may not have a clue what they are doing so it don't accomplish much. I'd like to see something similar when you buy a car, proof you know how to drive it. They say that getting your license and taking the driving test covers that but I sure don't see it on the highways and biways in my parts.

[tv_racin_fan]

What part of "shall not be infringed" do people not understand?

[Thunder71]

The 'infringed' portion.

Or is it the 'rights' portion.

Hmmm, maybe it's the 'shall not' part...

:confused:

I wish people would have just written clear... something like 'we can do this, shut your pie hole'.

[CJB]

NYPD... heavy trigger pulls... what do you expect?

[TriggerMan]

That is correct. NYPD has the 11# trigger in their Glocks and New York State troopers use the 8#. After retiring from NYPD, I replaced the 11# trigger spring in my glock 19 with the factory 5.5 spring. Shoots like a completely different gun now.

This nonsense between NYPD and kahr has been brewing for a few years now. The writing was on the wall when they didn't allow anyone else to acquire the K9, but allowed those who already owned one to continue carrying it. Once kahr support ended, the gun was un authorized for all.

I'm hoping there will be a glut in the market here so I can grab a used one cheapAny guesses as to the price range we'll see if they flood the market with used K9s? ANyone know the cost of returning the trigger to 7#s or so? Here's a link to a new K9, under $700

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=264788675

[kahrinca]

What part of "shall not be infringed" do people not understand?

We can agree to disagree. Following your philosophy, we wouldn't have any regulation or safety efforts on the part of government to help people who may do things that may affect the safety of others. I think it's a good law. You have an example right here of a trained professional having a ND, a person who had carried firearms for years. What's the big deal?

I EVEN learned things from the booklet and taking and passing the test! Truth of the matter is that people have to sometimes be forced under the law to be educated, unless you think that airline pilots shouldn't have to pass tests and let anyone fly a 767.

[TheTman]

Skater, am sorry to hear about your comrade that was killed, I'm sure no one meant any disrespect for him. Too bad so many cops are killed in the line of duty, I think we get de-sensitized to it.

Those guns were privately owned and not department issue right? Do you think they'll be a bunch coming in all at once or more of a trickle as people decide what they want to go with. They would probably be a nice gun, I doubt they were fired much and as long as they were kept clean and oiled should be a pretty good gun. If so then I bet unfortunately they'll be going for a premium price for used guns.

[skater4790]

Thank You thetmanski, yes the Kahr were privately owned. Some guys complaint about rust (carbon steel models) and also about the weight. I don't know if I would buy a gun from a NYPD officer, they were rough on their guns. Didn't clean and lube them as much. This reminds me of a sad story. A NYPD Detective after qualifying was cleaning his Kahr K9 at home and pull the trigger to take the slide off, the gun went off hitting him in the femoral artery. He was able to call 911 but die before anyone could reach him. After that the Department made you clean your guns at the range.

[skater4790]

This 2010 Firearm Discharge Report by the NYPD show that 21 officers accidental (unintentional) discharged their weapons out of 34,565 officers.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/268431-2010-nypd-firearms-discharge-report.html

[TriggerMan]

This 2010 Firearm Discharge Report by the NYPD show that 21 officers accidental (unintentional) discharged their weapons out of 34,565 officers.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/268431-2010-nypd-firearms-discharge-report.html (http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/268431-2010-nypd-firearms-discharge-report.html[/QUOTE] That's) That's one thorough report and pretty good performance by the NYPD.

[TriggerMan]

More on the NYPD Officer killed in the line of duty

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/daniel-zimmerman/heres-a-thought-mister-mayor/#more-87209

[Thunder71]

How many of those 21 were a Kahr... at any rate, that's 0.0006% even if every single one was from a Kahr (which I highly doubt).

And somehow the ones that happen with the Kahr, if there were any at all, are Kahrs' fault vs the ones with Glock, etc.

[johnh]

Guys the story on this one is simple. Any time a PD makes it harder for officers to shoot their guns, there can be only one reason behind it. Safety is just a white wash. Think along the lines of politicians' views of LEOs and you are on the right track. Kahr cannot make their guns have a pull that heavy. So the two entities are parting ways. I think it is sad that some of the media in New York are reporting that such requirements are reasonable and common in law enforcement. The vast majority of departments do not have such heavy pull requirements, and respond to safety concerns with officer training. One could fill stadiums with shooting instructors from all walks of life that would agree that making trigger pulls heavier is not conducive to hitting the target you are aiming at, and is therefore counter to gun safety. The end goal should be making sure that the officers can safely bring lethal force confrontations to a close without loss of life for LEOs and innocents involved. Any alteration to a firearm that makes this outcome less likely is a bad idea. Period.

[jocko]

How many of those 21 were a Kahr... at any rate, that's 0.0006% even if every single one was from a Kahr (which I highly doubt).

And somehow the ones that happen with the Kahr, if there were any at all, are Kahrs' fault vs the ones with Glock, etc.

gonna betthat being the nypd carrys glocks that of the 21 AD/ND that probably 20 were glocks and the other 1 could be one of the other allowed carry guns to.(including kahrs or the other brands allowed) that percentage quoted is so unbelievablelow, I would have figured with that many officers we would have seen far more AD/ND happening.

[kahrinca]

Skater, am sorry to hear about your comrade that was killed, I'm sure no one meant any disrespect for him. Too bad so many cops are killed in the line of duty, I think we get de-sensitized to it.

Those guns were privately owned and not department issue right? Do you think they'll be a bunch coming in all at once or more of a trickle as people decide what they want to go with. They would probably be a nice gun, I doubt they were fired much and as long as they were kept clean and oiled should be a pretty good gun. If so then I bet unfortunately they'll be going for a premium price for used guns.

Yes, I really feel bad about this incident and for his family. But in 2010 apparently no NYPD officers were so killed.

I think that when one actually checks the Bureau of Labor or similar for statistics, being a cop is not as dangerous as many other professions, e.g., cab drivers, fishermen (crab, in particular), etc.

Unfortunately, it appears that cops are more likely to commit suicide than be shot and killed in the line of duty-that is an area that perhaps needs to be addressed more for cops than how to survive a gunfight.