Kahr Wake Up & Smell The Magazine!!!

[Markis82]

This is my post from another thread. I though it should be its own topic. Maybe someone at Kahr will listen, if we all speak loud enough. This is not to bash Kahr. I'm just saying that the magazines should be designed and produced to the same fine standards as their guns.

Mags should drop free because that is how they are supposed to work!!! The Kahr factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS!!! This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem. The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK!!!! Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a Japanese company who picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products. Personally, I did get all my mags to drop free, I love my CM9, and I'm not bashing Kahr. But, let's get real people about those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem. Hello Kahr, hello Mr. Moon, hello, hello are you listening? Fess up to the problem and fix the mag situation!!! Redesign the follower to a sharper angle, make them stronger, let them drop free, and for gosh darn sake put the springs in the correct way!!!!

I'm thinking that Kahr might be reluctant to acknowledge the mag problems because they are afraid that if they admit to a problem, they my be faced with a forced recall. I personally don't care. I'd gladly BUY new mags if they were redesigned, were of a better quality, allowed you to slingshot slowly, and dropped free, all without user modifications.

Just one man's thoughts.

[Thunder71]

:popcorn:

[kahrlover123]

Hopefully Bawanna reads this and refers it to someone at Kahr.

We should have a response from Kahr on this issue ... NOT !!!

[Thunder71]

If I were right handed, I could perhaps see some value in the magazine not dropping out. For example, you inadvertently press the magazine release button and fwoop! out goes your magazine.

I don't really have an issue with it, but then I don't competition shoot either.

If that's their biggest issue, I can live with it and sleep quite well at night. The odd thing is, the magazines don't drop from my PM9 but drop easily in my MK9. So perhaps it's not a magazine issue, but a mag well issue.

[MLESa7990]

This is my post from another thread. I though it should be its own topic. Maybe someone at Kahr will listen, if we all speak loud enough. This is not to bash Kahr. I'm just saying that the magazines should be designed and produced to the same fine standards as their guns.

Mags should drop free because that is how they are supposed to work!!! The Kahr factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS!!! This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem. The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK!!!! Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a Japanese company who picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products. Personally, I did get all my mags to drop free, I love my CM9, and I'm not bashing Kahr. But, let's get real people about those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem. Hello Kahr, hello Mr. Moon, hello, hello are you listening? Fess up to the problem and fix the mag situation!!! Redesign the follower to a sharper angle, make them stronger, let them drop free, and for gosh darn sake put the springs in the correct way!!!!

I'm thinking that Kahr might be reluctant to acknowledge the mag problems because they are afraid that if they admit to a problem, they my be faced with a forced recall. I personally don't care. I'd gladly BUY new mags if they were redesigned, were of a better quality, allowed you to slingshot slowly, and dropped free, all without user modifications.

Just one man's thoughts.



I know you stated this isn't to bash Kahr, but it sure sounds like you are bashing them! lol

BTW, Justin Moon isn't Japanese. He is Korean. Also, can you tell me your source for this bit of info "picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products." lol

I guess I don't share your frustration since the mag drop is not an issue to me and I have not had one single failure with any of the mags I own.:o

[BrewerGeorge]

I don't know. I think it's a personal preference. Some people feel pretty strongly about them dropping, some people don't really care (me) and I assume some people definitely want them to stay. Since it would be harder to make a dropping mag stick, I think the current situation provides the most options. If you want them to drop, it's easy enough to make it happen.

[MLESa7990]

I don't know. I think it's a personal preference. Some people feel pretty strongly about them dropping, some people don't really care (me) and I assume some people definitely want them to stay. Since it would be harder to make a dropping mag stick, I think the current situation provides the most options. If you want them to drop, it's easy enough to make it happen.

excellent point imo

[recoilguy]

I am not bashing Kahr but.......come on you are not only bashing them you are making disparaging statemens about their ethnicity, their name, and the owner and making accusations on their corporate honesty and policy. It is one thing to say I have trouble I don't experiance with my Diamondback DB9 it is also one thing to say I don't like the way my Kahr is designed. It is another thing to preface a bash with i am not bashing then make a rant that covers the country of orgin the choice of name the reason in your mind for the problem the managemens thought process. The only thing you left out was thatthey use a good looking oriental womenin their add to distract you from the fact they have a terrible design department a managment staff staff that is corupt and no social backbone.

RCG

[TriggerMan]

If I were right handed, I could perhaps see some value in the magazine not dropping out. For example, you inadvertently press the magazine release button and fwoop! out goes your magazine.

I don't really have an issue with it, but then I don't competition shoot either.

If that's their biggest issue, I can live with it and sleep quite well at night. The odd thing is, the magazines don't drop from my PM9 but drop easily in my MK9. So perhaps it's not a magazine issue, but a mag well issue.The problem of inadvertantly dropping a mag is common to nearly all guns (exceptions I can think of and have shot are the Walther PPS and the HK P7 euro mag). This is a training issue of your grip and finger position. The Kahr drops part way so the gun would still malfunction just as much as if it dropped out fully.

I think its been documented that the mags which don't drop are usually dimensionally out of spec. However, there have been cases of mag well needing filing BY KAHR.

Most, if not all advance training classes want students to drop their mags to the ground without the added step of pulling on them. I agree that training on any weapon is important, I agree that these small Kahrs are not competition guns.

[TriggerMan]

Also, can you tell me your source for this bit of info "picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products." I have read this as part of an interview Mr. Moon gave. Its how he explained the name.

[Popeye]

I agree, Mine fall out of my PM9 just fine. I really don't see the big deal about all this though as I don't want them falling onto hard surfaces breaking the plastic base plates if I can help it.

[TriggerMan]

Maybe someone at Kahr will listen, if we all speak loud enough. .You will be able to tell they are listening in a few more posts. I give your membership in the forum less than 24 hours. Anyone who would join you in this rant has already 'departed".

When the volumn of guns sold with 'problem' mags reaches a critical mass, a third party will start making mags for Kahr products.

CheckMate, MecGar, Wilson, Chip...Where are you guys?

[Thunder71]

Interview with Ayoob/Moon:


Ayoob: Where did the name Kahr come from?
Moon: When it came to marketing the pistol, I did not feel that Saeilo would be a "catchy" name to put on my gun. I wanted a name that was short, easy to remember, and symbolic of the high quality of manufacture. Given Germany's renown for engineering prowess and quality, I wanted a name that sounded German. That's how I came up with "Kahr."

[knkali]

Mags should drop if it is an American design. Most US gun do. The Sig P230, 232 does not since it has the european latch release design and requires both hands to mag change. I find that cumbersome. Also the mag quality isnt there for Kahr. Mine split after approx 600 rnds.

I do have to say that Kahr CS was excellent. New mag in one week sent to me no questions, no charge.

Obviously the OP is a Kahr fan, and is frustrated at something that he feels is very fixable for Kahr but has not. I tend to agree.

[rjt123]

I am not bashing Kahr but.......come on you are not only bashing them you are making disparaging statemens about their ethnicity, their name, and the owner and making accusations on their corporate honesty and policy. It is one thing to say I have trouble I don't experiance with my Diamondback DB9 it is also one thing to say I don't like the way my Kahr is designed. It is another thing to preface a bash with i am not bashing then make a rant that covers the country of orgin the choice of name the reason in your mind for the problem the managemens thought process. The only thing you left out was thatthey use a good looking oriental womenin their add to distract you from the fact they have a terrible design department a managment staff staff that is corupt and no social backbone.

RCG

+1 What he said. Kahr is an American company founded by a gentleman of Korean ancestry. At least get the nationality right when you make a racial slur.

BTW, the dishonesty of prefacing your rant with "I'm not bashing Kahr" only goes to weaken any argument you make. If you wanna bash, then bash away...but leave out the "not bashing" BS.

[MW surveyor]

:popcorn:

[MLESa7990]

Interview with Ayoob/Moon:


Interesting. Had no idea.

[Markis82]

I know you stated this isn't to bash Kahr, but it sure sounds like you are bashing them! lol

BTW, Justin Moon isn't Japanese. He is Korean. Also, can you tell me your source for this bit of info "picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products." lol

I guess I don't share your frustration since the mag drop is not an issue to me and I have not had one single failure with any of the mags I own.:o
BTW, the dishonesty of prefacing your rant with "I'm not bashing Kahr" only goes to weaken any argument you make. If you wanna bash, then bash away...but leave out the "not bashing" BS.

Yes, I got the NATIONALITY wrong. Sorry!!! No, I am not bashing Kahr. I'm bashing Kahr's mags.

[Thunder71]

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/6510985981_6cfc6a719a_m.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cwnauman/6510985981/)
pile up (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cwnauman/6510985981/) by N0YZE Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/cwnauman/), on Flickr

[mightymouse]

I love the Italian mags in my Rugers, Berettas, and NAA... The magazine in my Kahr looks like crap and fit is hit and miss with new ones. Not in line with an otherwise quality gun. Kahr should quit riding the gravy train of profit and sales and work on an obvious flaw.

Kahr meet Mec-Gar - World's Finest Firearm Magazines (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mec-gar&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mec-gar.com%2F&ei=9cHoTqCkFIXpgQe8ocWFCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtyDZmHAOjaU_wEjxPlNn6q6RWJA&cad=rja)

and Meccanica del Sarca (http://www.sarca.it/)

. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mec-gar&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mec-gar.com%2F&ei=9cHoTqCkFIXpgQe8ocWFCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtyDZmHAOjaU_wEjxPlNn6q6RWJA&cad=rja)
Now go have lunch and work things out.

[Markis82]

BTW, what racial slur did I make??? Yes, I said Japanese, when he is Korean. However, I did not say anything bad about any nationality. I simply stated that in my opinion someone who would try to make his company appear German when it is not is capable of wording the owners manual it fit the problem.

[Ikeo74]

I agree with Markis82, there was no raical slur in his post. People are getting way too sensitive.

[Markis82]

I am not bashing Kahr but.......come on you are not only bashing them you are making disparaging statemens about their ethnicity, their name, and the owner and making accusations on their corporate honesty and policy. It is one thing to say I have trouble I don't experiance with my Diamondback DB9 it is also one thing to say I don't like the way my Kahr is designed. It is another thing to preface a bash with i am not bashing then make a rant that covers the country of orgin the choice of name the reason in your mind for the problem the managemens thought process. The only thing you left out was thatthey use a good looking oriental womenin their add to distract you from the fact they have a terrible design department a managment staff staff that is corupt and no social backbone.

RCGPlease explain what disparaging remarks I made about any NATIONALITY (I made no reference to any ethnicity!), their name, corp honesty, etc... I only said the Mr, Moon is trying to make his company look German when it is not. Which is a fact! You're the one who took everything one step further than I actually stated. Furthermore, I am NOT BASHING KAHR. I am bashing Kahr's magazines.

[Bill K]

I love the Italian mags in my Rugers, Berettas, and NAA... The magazine in my Kahr looks like crap and fit is hit and miss with new ones. Not in line with an otherwise quality gun. Kahr should quit riding the gravy train of profit and sales and work on an obvious flaw.

Kahr meet Mec-Gar - World's Finest Firearm Magazines (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mec-gar&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mec-gar.com%2F&ei=9cHoTqCkFIXpgQe8ocWFCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtyDZmHAOjaU_wEjxPlNn6q6RWJA&cad=rja)

and Meccanica del Sarca (http://www.sarca.it/)

. (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mec-gar&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CC8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mec-gar.com%2F&ei=9cHoTqCkFIXpgQe8ocWFCQ&usg=AFQjCNGtyDZmHAOjaU_wEjxPlNn6q6RWJA&cad=rja)
Now go have lunch and work things out.

I hear you! Heck even my two [POS some would say] P3AT Kel-Tecs come with Mec-Gar mags. The 9 round extended mag is also from Mec-Gar. How do they make them without any apparent seem?

[Thunder71]

FWIW, I did send Kahr this email:


I got the grips on, but I do have some concerns...

1. Why can't Kahr ship products that fit (recoil springs on the top of that list).

2. If Hogue can't make the grips right, why are they making them? They are for a very specific firearm, not some universal fitting product.

3. Kahr magazines are getting what seem to be lots of reports of splitting and needing fitment to work properly.

That said, I absolutely love my Kahr handguns (PM9 and MK9) - I just wish Kahr would spend a little time with the finishing touches that seem to make them stand out as a poor choice to those who don't know better.

A lot of your problems could be solved with very minor tweaks and quality control (mag springs installed wrong before shipping, recoil springs too long or too short, magazines varying in dimension, especially at the top, etc.).

Did you know that some Kahr owners have taken it upon themselves to fix the nose dive issue with hand racking the slide? It seems that just a simple adjustment of the angle on the follower allows a smooth rack, even by hand. I have not done this myself, but if an end user can figure out how to make it work reliably - why can't the people making the magazines?

I just don't understand the thought process, I would think it would be not only better for the reputation of Kahr, but also a rather huge savings in repairs and shipping fees.

[Markis82]

Mags should drop free because that is how they are supposed to work!!! Unless they are Kahr mags. The some nameless company factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS wonderful!!! This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem is to tell us how mags work. The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK The mags are perfect!!!! Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a nameless country company who picks a nameless country sounding name to to add something and something else toward his products. Personally, I did get all my mags to drop free, I love my CM9, and I'm not bashing Kahr. But, let's get real people about those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem Kahr can do no wrong. Hello Kahr, hello nameless owner, hello, hello are you listening? Fess up to the problem and fix the mag situation!!! Redesign the follower to a sharper angle, make them stronger, let them drop free, and for gosh darn sake put the springs in the correct way!!!! I'm such a Kool-ade drinker and your the perfect company that you don't need to do anything to your substandard mags. They are fine just the way they are.

[JFootin]

FWIW, I did send Kahr this email:

Quote:
I got the grips on, but I do have some concerns...

1. Why can't Kahr ship products that fit (recoil springs on the top of that list).

2. If Hogue can't make the grips right, why are they making them? They are for a very specific firearm, not some universal fitting product.

3. Kahr magazines are getting what seem to be lots of reports of splitting and needing fitment to work properly.

That said, I absolutely love my Kahr handguns (PM9 and MK9) - I just wish Kahr would spend a little time with the finishing touches that seem to make them stand out as a poor choice to those who don't know better.

A lot of your problems could be solved with very minor tweaks and quality control (mag springs installed wrong before shipping, recoil springs too long or too short, magazines varying in dimension, especially at the top, etc.).

Did you know that some Kahr owners have taken it upon themselves to fix the nose dive issue with hand racking the slide? It seems that just a simple adjustment of the angle on the follower allows a smooth rack, even by hand. I have not done this myself, but if an end user can figure out how to make it work reliably - why can't the people making the magazines?

I just don't understand the thought process, I would think it would be not only better for the reputation of Kahr, but also a rather huge savings in repairs and shipping fees.


Very well spoken, Thunder.

[JFootin]

Mags should drop free because that is how they are supposed to work!!! Unless they are Kahr mags. The some nameless company factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS wonderful!!! This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem is to tell us how mags work. The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK The mags are perfect!!!! Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a nameless country company who picks a nameless country sounding name to to add something and something else toward his products. Personally, I did get all my mags to drop free, I love my CM9, and I'm not bashing Kahr. But, let's get real people about those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem Kahr can do no wrong. Hello Kahr, hello nameless owner, hello, hello are you listening? Fess up to the problem and fix the mag situation!!! Redesign the follower to a sharper angle, make them stronger, let them drop free, and for gosh darn sake put the springs in the correct way!!!! I'm such a Kool-ade drinker and your the perfect company that you don't need to do anything to your substandard mags. They are fine just the way they are.

:popcorn:

[MLESa7990]

Mags should drop free because that is how they are supposed to work!!! Unless they are Kahr mags. The some nameless company factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS wonderful!!! This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem is to tell us how mags work. The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK The mags are perfect!!!! Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a nameless country company who picks a nameless country sounding name to to add something and something else toward his products. Personally, I did get all my mags to drop free, I love my CM9, and I'm not bashing Kahr. But, let's get real people about those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem Kahr can do no wrong. Hello Kahr, hello nameless owner, hello, hello are you listening? Fess up to the problem and fix the mag situation!!! Redesign the follower to a sharper angle, make them stronger, let them drop free, and for gosh darn sake put the springs in the correct way!!!! I'm such a Kool-ade drinker and your the perfect company that you don't need to do anything to your substandard mags. They are fine just the way they are.


Someone needs to simma down nah. haha

[jocko]

not worth to me to get into a pissin contest with any poster. We all have our opinions/beefs, address them to kahr and not to us. We have really no input other than emails and letters. Sure seems to me like some serious kahr bashing going on though, course this is just my opinion..

JFootin: i like alot of butter on my popcorn:popcorn:

[Markis82]

Someone needs to simma down nah. hahaNot me!! I just reworded a few things for the vast amount of sensitive readers here.

[Thunder71]

After lunch, come back and read this... then decide if it's how you wanted to present your statement. I understand your frustration, I do... but you say one thing and type another. :)

I personally don't care if you want to bash... go for it, let it all out. :D


This is not to bash Kahr.

The Kahr factory statement that they are not supposed to drop free is total BS!!!

This statement is an attempt, by management, to justify a situation and go on ignoring the problem.

The problem is that KAHR MAGS SUCK!!!!

Just the kind of thing you would expect from the owner of a Japanese company who picks a German sounding name to to add marketability and credibility toward his products.

I'm not bashing Kahr.

Those flipping mags, the refusal of the company to acknowledge the problem and fix the problem.

Just one man's thoughts.

Again, I don't think it's a magazine issue with them dropping freely - I think it's the gun itself that is holding the magazine from falling.

[FTG2Voge]

Kahr mags are definitely the most disappointing part of their product line. I got rid of my P-40 because every one of the six magazines I bought self destructed. The metal tabs in the followers all broke out of the plastic within a few mag fulls. So far my CW9 doesn't seem to have that problem.

[Markis82]

not worth to me to get into a pissin contest with any poster. We all have our opinions/beefs, address them to kahr and not to us. We have really no input other than emails and letters. Sure seems to me like some serious kahr bashing going on though, course this is just my opinion..

JFootin: i like alot of butter on my popcorn:popcorn:Again my intention was not to bash Kahr. But to address the fact that their magazines are nowhere up to the quality of their guns and the companies refusal to acknowledge it and do something about it. Mag are not supposed to drop? Follower angle changes will not make the gun slingshot easier? They don't crack at the back top edge? Come on, you are just peachy keen with their mags?

[jocko]

Only thing I can aqsk is that NO forum memgber take my words and ever try to redue. U can quote me any time I post but do not rework mty words into what you think I was saying to make any statement on kahrs, Smoiths, Rugers, Motorcycles.

I get myself in enough trouble with my wording and I certainly need no one help to dig some of my holes.

thank you

I do concur with Thunder 71. - can quote me on that!!!

[Markis82]

Again, I don't think it's a magazine issue with them dropping freely - I think it's the gun itself that is holding the magazine from falling.Well, if one can squeeze the mag with a pliers and it works just fine, I don't see it being a problem with the gun.

[Markis82]

Only thing I can aqsk is that NO forum memgber take my words and ever try to redue. U can quote me any time I post but do not rework mty words into what you think I was saying to make any statement on kahrs, Smoiths, Rugers, Motorcycles.

I get myself in enough trouble with my wording and I certainly need no one help to dig some of my holes.

thank you

I do concur with Thunder 71. - can quote me on that!!!Did I do that?

[jocko]

It could be both even, we don't know but certainly IMO it is far easier kand far less invasive (warranty wise) to squeeze the upper part of the magazine a tad to correct it.
At the worst u can ruin aq magfazine tube and that is all, and at the best u can also fix it. But when one grinds/sands or whatever inside the polymer mag well, then when is enough?? Not an easy area to get into to actually see where the rubbing is taking place IMO.

I have yet t6o yhear of anyone squeezing their mags and ruining them, so it looks like those who are doing this little fix are doing it right and wtih good results also.

Mag tubes are cheap to replace in comparison to the complete lower section..

[Thunder71]

I agree, however if you want to accuse a company of having faulty products, you should know where the fault lies, perhaps. Is it the gun frame, or the magazine?


Well, if one can squeeze the mag with a pliers and it works just fine, I don't see it being a problem with the gun.

If one can take a magazine that sticks in a PM9 and it easily drops free in an MK9, I don't see how it can be the magazine.

[Markis82]

I agree, however if you want to accuse a company of having faulty products, you should know where the fault lies, perhaps. Is it the gun frame, or the magazine?



If one can take a magazine that sticks in a PM9 and it easily drops free in an MK9, I don't see how it can be the magazine.Since the owners manual is the same for the PM9 and the MK9 and it states the the mag should not drop free, you should get your MK9 fixed.

[Thunder71]

I'm not seeing that statement anywhere... care to tell me which page it that's on?

http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdf

[JodyH]

Kahr magazines are a weak point in the pistol.
I think Kahr would benefit from switching to a company like Mec-Gar to redesign and manufacture their mags.
Mec-Gar has a long tradition and excellent reputation when it comes to functional, reliable, durable magazines.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[OldLincoln]

The Kahr mags are an ongoing issue. I suspect most will agree with that to some point. Is it a hanging offense, well that is an individual opinion. Like many others, I gave mine a few tweaks over a year ago and they have been perfect since. I spent much less energy and time than I have discussing the things here.

My quite humble opinion is that Kahr would like the contractor they buy them from to make adjustments also. It's no fun for them to handle the calls and replacements that they do, which is enough simply from a business perspective to focus on it. Sure I would like a short statement that they acknowledge the issues and are working on it, but we've said that for some time, so it's not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon.

In the meantime, we have several threads addressing this, some rants some fixes, so perhaps we can re-read those instead of flogging that dead horse (Jocko already took the head) in a new thread. Life's a bit of a struggle sometimes and this should be further down the "raising hell" list.

[rjt123]

BTW, what racial slur did I make??? Yes, I said Japanese, when he is Korean. However, I did not say anything bad about any nationality. I simply stated that in my opinion someone who would try to make his company appear German when it is not is capable of wording the owners manual it fit the problem.


Well, Markis, just about any statement that begins with "Just the kind of thing you would expect from..." is prejudicial. It lumps all of some category together without distinction. Don't believe me? Try putting "the 'N' word" where it says Japanese and reread the sentence.

The inference you're making (whether you meant to or not) is that the owner of a 'Japanese company' is somehow dishonest and sneaky BECAUSE he is Japanese.

[MO_Soldier]

The inference you're making (whether you meant to or not) is that the owner of a 'Japanese company' is somehow dishonest and sneaky BECAUSE he is Japanese.

I think thats a matter of sensitivity. I didnt get that from what he said at all. The fact is that he's masking the origin of the firearm, the truth being it's not German. The only insensitivity was calling him japanese. But that happens all the time. Let me get an egyptian, Iranian, and pakistani and see if you can tell them apart. my bet is that most couldnt, including myself.

[Markis82]

Well, Markis, just about any statement that begins with "Just the kind of thing you would expect from..." is prejudicial. It lumps all of some category together without distinction. Don't believe me? Try putting "the 'N' word" where it says Japanese and reread the sentence.

The inference you're making (whether you meant to or not) is that the owner of a 'Japanese company' is somehow dishonest and sneaky BECAUSE he is Japanese. Yes, I made the mistake of saying Japanese not Korean. However, unlike the "N" word, the word Japanese is not prejudicial! How else does one describe a person who is from Japan??????? Is there a better word?????? If I'm trying to make the point that someone who is of one nationally is trying the make his company look like it is of a different country origin, how else is one supposed to do that without mentioning that person's nationality. You have read what I said incorrectly. I said that was sneaky for a Japanese person's company to appear to be a German company. Again, I did make the mistake of thinking he was Japanese not Korean.

[Markis82]

The Kahr mags are an ongoing issue. I suspect most will agree with that to some point. Is it a hanging offense, well that is an individual opinion. Like many others, I gave mine a few tweaks over a year ago and they have been perfect since. I spent much less energy and time than I have discussing the things here.

My quite humble opinion is that Kahr would like the contractor they buy them from to make adjustments also. It's no fun for them to handle the calls and replacements that they do, which is enough simply from a business perspective to focus on it. Sure I would like a short statement that they acknowledge the issues and are working on it, but we've said that for some time, so it's not likely to be forthcoming anytime soon.

In the meantime, we have several threads addressing this, some rants some fixes, so perhaps we can re-read those instead of flogging that dead horse (Jocko already took the head) in a new thread. Life's a bit of a struggle sometimes and this should be further down the "raising hell" list.It just frustrates me that a company can make such fantastic guns and provide such lousy mags. To add salt on the wound Kahr has continually tried to justify this instead of addressing the situation head on. Reading other posts, I though many of you would stand behind me on this. I was not trying to beat a dead horse. Just attempting to raise awareness again in hopes Kahr might address the problem. Apparently, I was wrong. Most here who responded to the mag issue seem to be just fine with the mags the way they are.

[Markis82]

I'm not seeing that statement anywhere... care to tell me which page it that's on?

http://www.kahr.com/PDF/kahrmanual.pdfSure!! The left hand column of page 17. "...and pulling the magazine from the magazine well." Is says that twice. Once under "Loading & Firing" and again under "Unloading"

[MO_Soldier]

Reading other posts, I though many of you would stand behind me on this. I was not trying to beat a dead horse. Just attempting to raise awareness again in hopes Kahr might address the problem. Apparently, I was wrong. Most here who responded to the mag issue seem to be just fine with the mags the way they are.

I had this same expectation as I was opening this thread. I've heard nothing but complaints about these mags, but now it's all hunky dory?

[OldLincoln]

Most here who responded to the mag issue seem to be just fine with the mags the way they are.

I disagree that most are okay with their mags as they came from the factory. It's not even lack of complaints, more of a "fix what you can and figure a way around what you can't" thing. Your issue is valid and the thread just took on a challenge/response flavor.

[Chowser]

I'm ok with the mag not dropping free. For me, it's my pocket gun, if I draw it first and after seven rounds and there's still more bad guys, I'll transition to my other gun. On duty, the Kahr sits in my left pocket in a Desantis Nemesis holster (duty gun, Glock 31, on right hip).

Off duty, Glock 33 on right hip and Kahr CM9 in left pocket.

If I am just carrying the CM9 (for whatever reason I need deep concealment), then I will carry the CM9 in the right pocket and a spare mag in the left.

Not shooting times with the CM9 so I'm not concerned with the mag dropping freely.

[Markis82]

I had this same expectation as I was opening this thread. I've heard nothing but complaints about these mags, but now it's all hunky dory?Thank You!

[Markis82]

I think thats a matter of sensitivity. I didnt get that from what he said at all. The fact is that he's masking the origin of the firearm, the truth being it's not German. Thanks again. I seems like you read the words that are actually written there.

[skiflydive]

An interesting sidenote...

On page 17 of the Kahr manual I have it says "Remove the magazine by pushing the magazine catch on the left grip and pulling the magazine from the magazine well..."

On page 23 it says "Ensure the empty, reassembled magazine seats fully when inserted in the pistol, and ejects freely from it's well when the magazine catch is depressed."

[Thunder71]

That backs up my thought that it's the frame, and not the magazine.

It may only be an issue with the polymer frames, I know with my MK9 I have to drop the magazine to do a take down, where my PM9 I do not.

Maybe the 'rails' on the inside of the polymer frames help stabilize the magazine.

I don't know... but to me, since it works great in my MK9 and drops about half way in my PM9 I can't say that it's the magazines fault.

I'm not trying to down play there's an issue somewhere - but in my opinion, in this case some people aren't pointing blame in the right direction. Yes, you can alter the magazine to fix it from what I've read, but I don't think it's the real issue. Furthermore, could the magazine 'splitting' issue be from it being pressed into the tight frame? Same could be said for the follower issue some people experience.

Again, I don't know.

[jocko]

frame/magazine, I really think kahr is working on this and very hard. It is not the magazine sticking that even bothers me it is the splitting of the magazines that I am at a loss over. These whether u think so our not are not cheap ass made magazines. If it is possably gun related causing these splts, then rest assure a Meg gar is not goinbg to be any better. They make great magazines but they are not the only rodeo in town either. We also do not know if they have tried other mfg-ers magazines either, we are just assuming and u all know what that means. Not alibing for kahr either, they indeed know people are concerned about this magazine thing. I think in my ownlittle mind that if it was a vendor related fault, they would have made that change a long time ago..YMMV

[Thunder71]

I agree jocko.

Let's expand on that, however... Hogue, to my understanding, makes the wood grips for Kahr, which are very model specific - right to the serial number assignment. However, you have to modify them to fit... Kahr knows about this, yet they can't get Hogue to fix the problem? Again, it's an easy fix (Dremel and a sanding wheel), but one that shouldn't be necessary for an item made specifically for one firearm.

Recoil springs - another thing that shouldn't be an issue, yet I had to go through 3 and finally ended up cutting the last one so it worked. Once again, model specific, right down to the series (old/new style).

According to customer service, they recently had a meeting about this and are now working on some quality control on the recoil springs, lets hope the scope is more broad and we'll start seeing fewer of these quality control issues in the future.

[jocko]

If it was my Hogue wood grips or what ever and I bought them from Kahr, I would send them back and back and back until it is right. We list some very easy mods on this forum for some people who feel they can tie their own shoes and so some fix the issues in house and chalk it up to experience. Some cannot tie their shoes, so IMO the best thing to do is send what ever one buys that is not right back until it gets right. I don't have an answer for u Thunder 71, I bought a pair of wood grips for my K9 and they fit perfectly from kahr, I don't know who made them,I assumed it was not kahr and really didn't care, They fit, and I just ordered wood grips for a K9, no serial number was ever ask of me. I would certainly think Hogues would want to make the correct fitting grips. they do this sh-t for a living and "close" is good in horseshoes and hand grenades but certainly not in grips.

U know and I know we have beat this magazine thing to death, it ain't gonna buy us a cup of coffee even so we have to live with the hope and expectation that kahr will have this issues solved and we can then move on to another topic.

as u know I have never been a big fan of the change tO the belevled longer slides on the PM and now cm series. Serves no purpose, and what it does add to confusion is now we have two sets of recoils springs that will not interchange and now two different length barrels and two different length slides. Never made a fokking bit of sense to me. CertAinly the blunt nose was not ugly looking, oh contrarE I think the new style is uglier, course I am bias and who gives a rats ass what jocko thinks either.

Their webb site certainly needs serious upgrading, they still show the old style PM series (blunt nose slides) in their photos--NO reason for that to be over a year later. Really not rocket scikence to keep a webb site up to date .. I have asked (not bitched) kahr why they now do not just sell us the outter recoil spring like they used to do with the old style PM slides for around 7 bucks for that is all that really needs to be chaged ever 1500-2000 round and the reply vback then was "darn, I didn't know we made that change" but I will pass it on. Evidently the pass was dropped.

Course iif I may relate an issues that you also would blow ur stack at. I have a 2010 Mercedes GLK and the left side low beam light has went out 3 times and one cannot get to that bulb and actully see what the fokk is going on. It is all about feel. Mercedes charges anywhere from 25 to 50 bucks just to install this $7 bulb, as the techs even bit-h about what poor engineering it is. The bulb is held in place by a little spring clip, that if bought separtely might cost $5 even at Mercedes price. Well anyway, the bulb burned out again and I attempted to install the bulb and the damn little clip broke in half. Thinking nothing about it, I called Mercedes and told them what happend and the guy said your gonna be really pissed when I tell you that Mercedes will not sell that single part but u have to buy the entire left side headlight asembly at a cost of $400 and then the bumper has to come off to install the headlight at a cost of over $400. Even the parts man said they have had this issue come up numnerous times on the 2010 GLK and mercedes will not bend to help the dealers. Now my point is, until Mercedes gets so so much bitching from dealers and customers, they will do nothing and In the mean time peopl,e like me have had to "muslim" rig up a fix to keep the bulb from falling out. Oh yes, I'm pissed but who do I punch??????:popcorn:

If u do not believe me call any Mercedes dealer asn ask about the GLK bulb clip thing..

[Thunder71]

But...

What the hell will we talk about? We'll have extra time... what are we supposed to do, go shooting?

Kahr support acknowledged the issue, and said they can send another set but they couldn't guarantee they would fit either - but did offer to make the modification to the ones I had, so yes - even though Hogue apparently messed up, Kahr would take care of the problem.

I've never had an issue with customer service at Kahr, in fact I'd say it's been excellent.

[Markis82]

I think in my ownlittle mind that if it was a vendor related fault, they would have made that change a long time ago..YMMVI that was true, why would Kahr put up with a vender who was assembling the mags improperly by inserting the springs backwards. I think there is more to this issue than we are lead to believe. Like the mag vender is the brother-in-law of Kahr's owner or some other reason that puts the mag vender beyond being replaceable.

[MW surveyor]

FWIW

My CW9 will drop free the mag it came with and the extended mag. No tweaking required to get it to drop when the release is pushed.

I can understand the frustration that some of you have but how many have not had the experience with their mags that you others have had with theirs?

BTW - I have not drunk the kool-aid. Some guns just have problems (mags included) If you think dropping a mag from a Kahr is a problem, just google up 1911 owners have with factory supplied mags. Heck, half the time they can't even get them to feed, let alone drop.

Going back to my :popcorn: now.

[jocko]

damn, u mean u would drop a vendor who inserted mag springs in wrong???Wow, what if the next vendor does it. WTF, that sh-t is just gonna happen every once in awhile. I think we had one owner here that bought 2 or 3 and they were all in backwards,but that certainly was and is not a pandemic issue to drop a vendor over.

Fire the fokker who assembled the spring in the magazine and move on.. We don't know if the vendor either inserted the srpings in wrong or if it was a kahr employee either.

[Markis82]

damn, u mean u would drop a vendor who inserted mag springs in wrong???If it was a frequent and consistent occurrence from the vendor and I've made the vendor aware and it keeps happening, yes without a doubt. Kahr is a high end product and one would expect that the units put out for sale to the public be as "correct" as possible. Some of their guns cost over $700.00 and for them to be sold with backward mag springs is ridiculous. Short of having a person in the factory disassembling checking and reassembling the mags, I'd have to trust the vendor to do it properly. After all I would not expect such high standard from a $275.00 Sccy 9mm. But from Kahr I do.

[jocko]

lots of "if" there...

I would expect ALL MAGAZINES to be put together right, no matter what price gun it was sold in. Thatis not rocket science for the vendor either or who ever puts them together but this magazine spring backwards thing is certaqinly not an issue .

The person who received either 2or 3 and found the springs in backwards was at least smart enough to not panic but proceeded to check it out for himself. We have mentioned this over on the kahr tech section in the propper prepping thread, not that anyone feels it is a pandemic issue but again if ur gonna sit there and clean ur new gun, why not double check to see that the magazine is right. our one can assume it is OK and just go out and shoot it and 99.995% will have zero issues as the magazines are correct...

[Bill K]

Jocko,

You begin to scare me when you use words like "pandemic", spell it correctly and have it make sense in the context of your post. :)

[Thunder71]

I'm concerned about Bawanna... is he actually working today or something?

[TriggerMan]

I agree with Markis82, there was no raical slur in his post. People are getting way too sensitive.Curious on what you feel the relevance is of bringing in the ethnicity of the Kahr ownership?

I think the poster wanted some support and bigots usually assume everyone shares their bigotry.

[jocko]

Jocko,

You begin to scare me when you use words like "pandemic", spell it correctly and have it make sense in the context of your post. :)

start now???:popcorn: humm I thought I spelled it right even.

[jocko]

I'm concerned about Bawanna... is he actually working today or something?

go with the "something":popcorn:

[crazymailman]

go with the "something":popcorn:

Beat me to it!

[Markis82]

Curious on what you feel the relevance is of bringing in the ethnicity of the Kahr ownership?

I think the poster wanted some support and bigots usually assume everyone shares their bigotry.What does one's nationality have to do with their ethnicity??? I didn't mention anybody's ethnicity!!! As I said before..."Yes, I made the mistake of saying Japanese not Korean. However, ...the word Japanese is not prejudicial! How else does one describe a person who is from Japan??????? Is there a better word?????? If I'm trying to make the point that someone who is of one nationally is trying the make his company look like it is of a different country origin, how else is one supposed to do that without mentioning that person's nationality. You have read what I said incorrectly. I said that was sneaky for a Japanese person's company to appear to be a German company. Again, I did make the mistake of thinking he was Japanese not Korean."

You're American. Does that make you a member of any specific ethnic group?

[TriggerMan]

I'm concerned about Bawanna... is he actually working today or something?
He's taking a shift at the airport...handing out flowers for donations. That's what I heard, don't vouch for the accuracy. Just saying.:rolleyes:

[zebraD]

Yes, I made the mistake of saying Japanese not Korean. However, unlike the "N" word, the word Japanese is not prejudicial! How else does one describe a person who is from Japan??????? Is there a better word??????

How about Asian-American or Asian. Or better yet how about American (because that is what he is). Maybe you should have said that the company was trying to sound un-American???

You ever try to question someone about being American? Usually doesn't end with both parties walking away with a smile if you catch my drift.

[Markis82]

How about Asian-American or Asian. Or better yet how about American (because that is what he is). Maybe you should have said that the company was trying to sound un-American???

You ever try to question someone about being American? Usually doesn't end with both parties walking away with a smile if you catch my drift."Sun Myung Moon (born January 6, 1920) is the Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) founder and leader of the..." ~ Wilipedia. I guess Wikipedia is bigoted too. Get real people!!!!

[TriggerMan]

What does one's nationality have to do with their ethnicity??? I didn't mention anybody's ethnicity!!! As I said before..."Yes, I made the mistake of saying Japanese not Korean. However, ...the word Japanese is not prejudicial! How else does one describe a person who is from Japan??????? Is there a better word?????? If I'm trying to make the point that someone who is of one nationally is trying the make his company look like it is of a different country origin, how else is one supposed to do that without mentioning that person's nationality. You have read what I said incorrectly. I said that was sneaky for a Japanese person's company to appear to be a German company. Again, I did make the mistake of thinking he was Japanese not Korean."

You're American. Does that make you a member of any specific ethnic group?
You gotta admit, it looks bad. Why comment on that at all. Your rant hasn't a thing to do with nationality or ethnicity.

America = melting pot
Japan = not so much; Korea+ ditto

Wikipedia is reporting a factual point, you are trying to do something altogether different.

[Thunder71]

Who's on first?

[Markis82]

You gotta admit, it looks bad. Why comment on that at all. Hasn't a thing to do with nationality or ethnicity.

America = melting pot
Japan = not so much
Korea+ dittoNo it does not look bad!!! In my original post I was trying to point out the Korean owner used the Kahr name to make his products appear as if they were from a German company. It is the truth spoken by the owner himself. That is all. End of story. What is sooooo wrong with saying that??? You all are the ones accusing me of being a bigot. Which could not be further from the truth. You all are the ones confusing ethnicity and nationality and bringing all sorts of thing into this. Myself being a person of a minority ETHNICITY, would be last person to feel that way!!!

[Tilos]

I invite anyone who questions this, to remove the mag from a polymer framed gun, open and lock the slide, and look down thru the mag well.

If you hold it up to the light you will a see STEPS in the raised side areas that guide/contain the magazine, with the top 3rd being wider than the bottom.
I believe this is what the "bulge" catches on and stops the mag, from dropping free.
These steps (both sides of the mag well) are very apparent (to me) on both of my polymer kahr guns.

whew, sorry for going so analytical on such an emotional subject:D.

just sayin'
Tilos

[Thunder71]

Yep, I agree with that Tilos... and that's why it doesn't happen on my MK9.

But, people will still blame the magazine.

Come on folks, are we going to figure this out or what? Let the country of origin thing go and be productive now - let's nail this bird. We all know that nobody is doing their real job, so let's do something constructive at least.

:popcorn:

[crazymailman]

Just looked at my PM9 amd it appears that the steps or ridges are the same all the way up. But my pistol does have the older style slide, so that might be why. That said, all 6 mags that I have tried eject freely in both my P & PM, including one that arrived today.

[rjt123]

Myself being a person of a minority ETHNICITY, would be last person to feel that way!!!


Sorry, that's not a valid point. Bigotry has nothing to do with your ethnic/racial status.

How many of you know somebody (or several people) who is a racial minority who is bigotted towards caucasians? I certainly know some. Minorities can be just as flawed as whatever the majority is.

[Tilos]

crazymailman:
Did you look top down...down thru the slide??

Tilos

[jocko]

wow this thread is getting way out of hand. I'm done, enjoy

[Tilos]

J:
Hey, I was trying to drift it back:D and it almost worked.
I thought I could get everyone to leave the keyboards and go look down the mag wells.:behindsofa:

Tilos

[crazymailman]

crazymailman:
Did you look top down...down thru the slide??

Tilos

Yeah, I pulled the slide off and the ridges look like they are the same width and depth all the way through.

Edit: Note the serial # is IA6XXX FWIW

[Shark1007]

I believe the magazine issue is caused by limp wristing, same with the Benz GLK light issue. Goodnite Gracie

[muggsy]

Interview with Ayoob/Moon:

Straight from the horses mouth. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. Mags should drop free from an auto-loader. The Colt 1911 set the standard. The problem started with the switch to polymer frames. Kahr should corrected the problem.

[JustinN]

This thread has become pointless...closed