Got Robbed Last Night!

[sierrajb]

Woke up to a drizzly morning to find someone had stolen a rear wheel & tire from my Suburban last night. They must've been scared off before they could get to the other three.

Wish I would have been awake to test out my PM9 with SD loads! Makes me want to hide out in the bushes tonight and wait for them to return. Feel very violated and frustrated. Should I go to the shooting range today in this frame of mind?:53:

[jlottmc]

I see no reason why not. Take care of the legals (police reports, insurance, all that) then go have some fun.

[sierrajb]

I had to run to a parts house to pick up 5 new lug nuts in order to put on my spare, all in the same drizzly rain. By that time, I was running late for work, and didn't have time to call the legals. A new tire is $120, a used wheel is $50, and my deductible is $500. Plus, my insurance sky rockets if I even THINK of filing a claim.

So, I'm not sure if it's worth reporting. But, I like your suggestion to hit the range for therapy.

[Thunder71]

Wish I would have been awake to test out my PM9 with SD loads! Makes me want to hide out in the bushes tonight and wait for them to return. Feel very violated and frustrated.

Sorry to hear that! I know the feeling... violated is a good word for it.

That said, I'm glad you were asleep... I see no where in your post that you felt your life was in danger or a justification for the use of your PM9 with SD loads. I'm thankful your biggest battle at this point is insurance, and not finding a good lawyer.

/hijack

[OldLincoln]

There's an old story about a guy that gets a flat outside an insane asylum and in the process of changing his tire kicks over the hubcap where he had put the lugnuts loosing them in the tall weeds. So he's on hands and knees searching around the weeds when an inmate who was watching all this from the other side of the fence asked him what he was doing. The guy said "I'm looking for the lug nuts I lost so I can put the wheel back on." The inmate replied "Why don't you take one nut off the other three and drive to an auto store?" The guy stood with an astonished look on his face saying "I never thought of that, you're pretty sharp." The inmate replied "Look, I'm insane, not stupid!"

[jlottmc]

Sorry to hear that! I know the feeling... violated is a good word for it.

That said, I'm glad you were asleep... I see no where in your post that you felt your life was in danger or a justification for the use of your PM9 with SD loads. I'm thankful your biggest battle at this point is insurance, and not finding a good lawyer.

/hijack


Here in TX we can use deadly force to prevent theft during the nighttime, and criminal mischief at night as well. The kicker is that a reasonable person would have to feel/agree that deadly force was required to stop said offenses.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

Section 9.42 is what you're looking for.

[Bill K]

That does suck. Personally I'd do something more physical than going to the range, some sort of exercise like going for a jog, lifting weights or the like.

Can you park so that you can see your vehicle from the house/Apt.?

[Thunder71]

Here in TX we can use deadly force to prevent theft during the nighttime, and criminal mischief at night as well. The kicker is that a reasonable person would have to feel/agree that deadly force was required to stop said offenses.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm

Section 9.42 is what you're looking for.

Guess being in Minnesota would make me think twice before pulling the trigger if someone was IN my house, facing the window, gun in hand, eating Christmas cookies... since well, he's not a direct threat.

[MW surveyor]

Yea, but he can imagine the target being the DB and get psychological release as well.

[mightymouse]

Woke up to a drizzly morning to find someone had stolen a rear wheel & tire from my Suburban last night. They must've been scared off before they could get to the other three.

Wish I would have been awake to test out my PM9 with SD loads! Makes me want to hide out in the bushes tonight and wait for them to return. Feel very violated and frustrated. Should I go to the shooting range today in this frame of mind?:53:
A Suburban tire is worth shooting someone over?

[jocko]

better have a drop weapon to put by the BG sides if u kill him for stealing ur car tire!! and then he better be damn well dead on arrival to, so he can't tell his story.

[Bill K]

Thankfully in the SD situation I had to shoot my way out of was considered justifiable use of physical force in defense of person. Here in Connecticut is what you have to have in back of your mind before "defending" yourself...


2005 Connecticut Code - Sec. 53a-19. Use of physical force in defense of person.
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Sec. 53a-19. Use of physical force in defense of person. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, a person is justified in using reasonable physical force upon another person to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force, and he may use such degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose; except that deadly physical force may not be used unless the actor reasonably believes that such other person is (1) using or about to use deadly physical force, or (2) inflicting or about to inflict great bodily harm.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety (1) by retreating, except that the actor shall not be required to retreat if he is in his dwelling, as defined in section 53a-100, or place of work and was not the initial aggressor, or if he is a peace officer or a private person assisting such peace officer at his direction, and acting pursuant to section 53a-22, or (2) by surrendering possession of property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto, or (3) by complying with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform.

(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, a person is not justified in using physical force when (1) with intent to cause physical injury or death to another person, he provokes the use of physical force by such other person, or (2) he is the initial aggressor, except that his use of physical force upon another person under such circumstances is justifiable if he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so, but such other person notwithstanding continues or threatens the use of physical force, or (3) the physical force involved was the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law.

[MO_Soldier]

Thankfully in the SD situation I had to shoot my way out of was considered justifiable use of physical force in defense of person. Here in Connecticut is what you have to have in back of your mind before "defending" yourself...


2005 Connecticut Code - Sec. 53a-19. Use of physical force in defense of person.
Share|
Sec. 53a-19. Use of physical force in defense of person. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, a person is justified in using reasonable physical force upon another person to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of physical force, and he may use such degree of force which he reasonably believes to be necessary for such purpose; except that deadly physical force may not be used unless the actor reasonably believes that such other person is (1) using or about to use deadly physical force, or (2) inflicting or about to inflict great bodily harm.

(b) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, a person is not justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if he knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety (1) by retreating, except that the actor shall not be required to retreat if he is in his dwelling, as defined in section 53a-100, or place of work and was not the initial aggressor, or if he is a peace officer or a private person assisting such peace officer at his direction, and acting pursuant to section 53a-22, or (2) by surrendering possession of property to a person asserting a claim of right thereto, or (3) by complying with a demand that he abstain from performing an act which he is not obliged to perform.

(c) Notwithstanding the provisions of subsection (a) of this section, a person is not justified in using physical force when (1) with intent to cause physical injury or death to another person, he provokes the use of physical force by such other person, or (2) he is the initial aggressor, except that his use of physical force upon another person under such circumstances is justifiable if he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so, but such other person notwithstanding continues or threatens the use of physical force, or (3) the physical force involved was the product of a combat by agreement not specifically authorized by law.

Bill, I would really appreciate it if you would share your story in detail with the forum. Whether here or in your own thread, I think I'd gain a lot of value from it.

[Bill K]

Bill, I would really appreciate it if you would share your story in detail with the forum. Whether here or in your own thread, I think I'd gain a lot of value from it.

PM sent.

[TheTman]

That sucks that in most states you can't defend your outside property with deadly force. I'd still confront them and hold them for police and told them if they made a move I was going to be afraid for my life and shoot them.

[Ikeo74]

I had to run to a parts house to pick up 5 new lug nuts in order to put on my spare, all in the same drizzly rain. By that time, I was running late for work, and didn't have time to call the legals. A new tire is $120, a used wheel is $50, and my deductible is $500. Plus, my insurance sky rockets if I even THINK of filing a claim.

So, I'm not sure if it's worth reporting. But, I like your suggestion to hit the range for therapy.
Call your homeowners insurance and ask them if they cover theft in your driveway? It could be worth the call unless the deductable on it is $500 or more.

[jocko]

lots of responsiblities goes along with ccw.



sierrajb: I think u should have made a police report ofit, not sure now if it is to late to do that or not, sale theing with the insuranc e aspect. I doubt if ur covered under ur deductable but again a reportin your file means u attemted to do the right thing. Hell who knows maybe the ******* will come back for the rest of the tires and then maybe all of these prior reorts will give you soe leeway for shooting him 100 times in the back.

[sierrajb]

Hmmm, to answer several questions/issues at once:

1. No, a Suburban tire is NOT worth a life. NEVER! However, it would have given me great joy to hold it on him until the cops came. If my life or the life of my family was at stake, like everyone on this forum, I would have used deadly force in a second.

2. No, it's not too late to file a report. Will do that after I return from the tire shop (where I am at the time of this post.) Fort Worth police are great to help!

3. As stated earlier, my deductible is higher than the total cost of the loss. A replacement tire is $179.64, a good used wheel was $54.11, a new set of lug nuts was $10.39. Not worth filing a claim, so I eat this for Christmas!

4. The Suburban WAS parked in my drive, in clear view under a street light and a sign in my front yard that reads "Neighborhood Watch." (Ironic, huh?)

5. I've heard Bill's SD story, and it's packed with wisdom and insight. He'll PM you if asked.

[wyntrout]

Wheel locks... $30 to $40 or so, depending on quality. Knowing that your tires and wheels won't disappear... priceless... really!

I use good ones... McGard, and bought an extra key... and recorded the serial numbers for key replacement in an emergency. I also bought the Auto Etch, Inc. kit and etched all of my windows with the VIN number. I bought two kits for my van so I could etch all of the glass... and the front and rear on both sides. This is a big deterrent to theft as all of that glass costs a fortune to replace.

http://www.autoetch.com/order.htm

Wynn:)

[John Law]

Sorry you had to go through all that trouble. File the report, it will at least alert the Police to a problem that may be continuing in your area. You dont have to file an insurance claim.
I know laws are different in all the states but in your case you would have had problems if you used Deadly Physical Force. It was a larceny and there was no threat to you, your life or another person. Thunder said it, what would a reasonable person feel or think about your actions being justified. In court you would have 12 people reviewing the choice you made. JL

[sierrajb]

Sorry you had to go through all that trouble. File the report, it will at least alert the Police to a problem that may be continuing in your area. You dont have to file an insurance claim.
I know laws are different in all the states but in your case you would have had problems if you used Deadly Physical Force. It was a larceny and there was no threat to you, your life or another person. Thunder said it, what would a reasonable person feel or think about your actions being justified. In court you would have 12 people reviewing the choice you made. JL

I filed the report and as expected, the Ft. Worth Police were great to help. Super fast response and gave me the personal number to our Neighborhood Police Officer (which I had no idea one existed).

Looking back, I'm sure I would not have used deadly force, especially since it was not a matter of life and death. I AM a reasonable person, in spite of what my wife thinks sometimes. In my original post I mentioned wishing I had my PM9 with SD rounds. That was more of a "figure of speech", much like "I'd like to wring his neck." To date, I've never wrung a person's neck, but you should see my waiting list....

[my19]

I know laws are different in all the states but in your case you would have had problems if you used Deadly Physical Force. It was a larceny and there was no threat to you, your life or another person. Thunder said it, what would a reasonable person feel or think about your actions being justified. In court you would have 12 people reviewing the choice you made. JL

It probably seems strange to anyone living in the other 49 states, but Texas specifically allows the use of deadly force to stop burglaries, arsons, larcenies and other crimes AT NIGHT:

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect his property to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during the nighttime, and he reasonably believes that the property cannot be protected by any other means."

"A person is justified in using deadly force against another to pervent the other who is fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, or theft during the nighttime, from escaping with the property and he reasonable believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other means; or, the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the property would expose him or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. (Nighttime is defined as the period 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.)"

There was a case in TX a few years ago in which a guy in his second floor apartment heard someone trying to break into his car on the street below. He shot (and as I remember, killed) a suspct. The shooter wasn't prosecuted.

That said, I can't imagine shooting someone when there is no imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm.

[muggsy]

There's an old story about a guy that gets a flat outside an insane asylum and in the process of changing his tire kicks over the hubcap where he had put the lugnuts loosing them in the tall weeds. So he's on hands and knees searching around the weeds when an inmate who was watching all this from the other side of the fence asked him what he was doing. The guy said "I'm looking for the lug nuts I lost so I can put the wheel back on." The inmate replied "Why don't you take one nut off the other three and drive to an auto store?" The guy stood with an astonished look on his face saying "I never thought of that, you're pretty sharp." The inmate replied "Look, I'm insane, not stupid!"

Is that an insinuation, Linc? :)

[AFDoc]

A Suburban tire is worth shooting someone over?

You've obviously never lived in Texas.

[MO_Soldier]

Alright all you scooter riders....how bout this one?

My step dad had his like, '89 Harley Soft Tail stolen right out of his garage one night.

The neighbor across the street even caught it on camera, but it was too fuzzy for the fuzz to be able to do anything with it. He still has the video and showed it to me.

[MO_Soldier]

^In San Antonio, Tejas

[sierrajb]

MO Soldier,
I think THAT example is another reason it's "legal" to use deadly force in Texas as explained earlier. Still not absolutely sure what I would have done if I caught the jokers in the act and had the option to use this freedom. That seems to be the tough call here. Thanks!

[Wolffire99]

As a combat veteran I don't think the average person would want to live with the psychological trauma of killing someone, even if legally justified, knowing that they was no real physical threat. Not to mention the almost guaranteed civil litigation you'd be facing that would probably leave you in bankruptcy even if it was a clean shoot.

Some things just aren't worth it.

[EZ Land]

As a combat veteran I don't think the average person would want to live with the psychological trauma of killing someone, even if legally justified, knowing that they was no real physical threat. Not to mention the almost guaranteed civil litigation you'd be facing that would probably leave you in bankruptcy even if it was a clean shoot.

Some things just aren't worth it.

Thanks for your service! Great points.

For me, at least, it's such a feeling of being violated. For a fleeting second the anger is overwhelming, and that fleeting second can change your life forever. Better be trained properly and understand the consequences, even if it's a legal situation.

This past summer, at 4:30 am one morning, I happened to be on my front porch while letting the dog out. A minivan just rolled up and a dude got out an went right to the bed of my truck- I yelled at and ran after him, in my boxers no less! I'm certain he wasn't expecting some crazy half naked 6'4" 250 lbs guy to come flying out of the shadows! I don't think he touched the ground as he ran back to his car. I was so angry, but in retrospect I'm kinda glad I didn't have a physical confrontation with him. Although, there's a huge side of me that wished I would've just whipped the snot outta him. But, who knows what their state of mind was or what kind of weapons they may have had. Many of us talk the big talk, but once that bell has rung, it's awfully hard to un-ring it.

[sierrajb]

Thanks for your service! Great points.

For me, at least, it's such a feeling of being violated. For a fleeting second the anger is overwhelming, and that fleeting second can change your life forever. Better be trained properly and understand the consequences, even if it's a legal situation.

This past summer, at 4:30 am one morning, I happened to be on my front porch while letting the dog out. A minivan just rolled up and a dude got out an went right to the bed of my truck- I yelled at and ran after him, in my boxers no less! I'm certain he wasn't expecting some crazy half naked 6'4" 250 lbs guy to come flying out of the shadows! I don't think he touched the ground as he ran back to his car. I was so angry, but in retrospect I'm kinda glad I didn't have a physical confrontation with him. Although, there's a huge side of me that wished I would've just whipped the snot outta him. But, who knows what their state of mind was or what kind of weapons they may have had. Many of us talk the big talk, but once that bell has rung, it's awfully hard to un-ring it.

The first two nights after the robbery were restless for me. I found myself getting up at all hours, peeking through the peep hole in the front door, and even walking outside at 3 am for a good look.

My two teens are more restless than I am, and don't want to be left alone. I've tried to assure them that these were thieves looking to make a few easy bucks, and not mass murderers. Still, it's aggravating to see the stress it places on innocent victims, and I can't do much more about that. Hoping time will erase some of that fear....

[Bawanna]

Alright all you scooter riders....how bout this one?

My step dad had his like, '89 Harley Soft Tail stolen right out of his garage one night.

The neighbor across the street even caught it on camera, but it was too fuzzy for the fuzz to be able to do anything with it. He still has the video and showed it to me.

That's justifiable, it's one thing to burglar, steal, rape and pillage but to steal a mans harley. That's a death sentence right there. Everybody knows that.

[MO_Soldier]

Yea, capital crimes are one thing....

Harley crimes are on a whole bigger level than that! lol

[Dueeast]

Visit Maine sometime......the whole culture up there is: If it's not yours, don't touch it! That's what we need to teach our children, and if you don't heed that warning, then you get what you deserve.