Polymer Kahrs - The Magazine Drop Thread

[Thunder71]

Guys, please don't flame me for starting this one - but I think we need a clean slate here as (at least in my opinion) we were making some progress in diagnosing the magazine drop issue in the polymer Kahrs in that it may be the frame and not the magazine that is causing the issue.

As mentioned in 'the other thread', if you drop the magazine and look from the top down you'll see 'ramps', two raised areas on each side. Based on various other discussions and the fact that all my magazines drop free in my MK9 but not my PM9 I think that's the issue - NOT the magazines.

What we need are some folks who have magazines that fail to drop and those who have magazines that drop freely to post what they see (and if possible, photos of the inside). Another observation on mine is the bottom portion of the grip on the inner front seems to be a raised area where the magazine rubs as well.

It could be that over time these areas will simply wear down and magazines will drop free on their own, but I'm curious what we as a group come up with here.

Also, could the tighter fit also affect the magazine splitting issue and feed ramp lock back pin wear?

You must use unmodified magazines for this to be an accurate assessment of the problem.

[KennyFSU]

Sure I'll play. My PM9 drops empty mags out no problem. Serial IBXXXX. Unmodified mags.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/LSntegra/Guns/9f2fa2bd.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/LSntegra/Guns/5f184f97.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/LSntegra/Guns/e7f9ae8e.jpg

[JustinN]

Ok Guys......this thread is on a short leash being as a I just closed the thread and if we keep beating the dead horse here it will get closed and we'll give time outs to people.

Now, I will let this continue for now but we are going to lay down a ground rule:
1) There is Nothing that says a semi-auto Pistol MUST drop mages free or it is broken. That is NOT a fact of life.
2) I will argue Drop free is more of an American thing (which normally means its the right way, isn't 100% in stone) - Makarovs and other euro guns with euro mag releases don't drop free. If you don't agree with this idea, look at assault rifles, the AR drops free but AKs, FALs, etc not so much.....

My new CM9 does not drop free. I noted it but thought nothing of it. My CZ75 did not drop it's mags. When I was still in my police academy, there were several people with Glock 17s that did NOT drop free. Now, for a competition gun, yes you want it dropping free cause your reload is under time. For a self defense gun, your reloads aren't under time, in fact in 99% of situations in which a self defense gun is used you do not reload the gun, so this whole argument is moot. I would even go so far as to add that in combat reload situations, I'd prefer my mag not drop, as its less likely I would drop my mag in that case (meaning I have an intruder in my house, I put three rounds in and then decide to reload while I clear the rest of the house. I don't want the mag dropping and hitting the floor, I'm going to hold onto it in case I need those 3 extra rounds, but want a full mag....).

Now, lets keep this discussion civil.

[Thunder71]

The Kahr manual does state 'make sure your magazines drop free'. It doesn't bother me that mine do not (in my PM9), however if we can shed some light on this we can quickly answer the question as it is bound to continue to be brought up. Instead of telling people to send their magazines back or pinch the upper portion of the magazine tighter together, for example.

Some people have no issues, others do - perhaps we can find some common ground as to what makes one gun work and another not. It's been discussed in length about the magazine being the issue, however little has been brought forth regarding the possibility of it being the frame, as far as I know. Yes, some have mentioned sanding the inside of the mag well - and that may very well be the fix, but I'd like to do a little experiment here with the help of our fellow members who feel it worthy to do so.

Was hoping to keep this thread clean... and helpful.

The sole intent of this thread is to keep it informative, and perhaps learn a little something.

Thank you.

[JustinN]

...as the Kahr manual does state 'make sure your magazines drop free'.

Show me where it says this. I am holding my manual that I just got last week and it says "pushing the magazine catch...and pull the magazine from the magazine well".

See attached photo:

[KennyFSU]

The OP is just concerned about the apparent disconnect between what the manual states and what his pistol is doing. I have also owned guns that did not have drop-free mags; didn't bother me one bit because I understand it's not a necessary function. I see it as a bonus really. Good luck in your findings.

[skiflydive]

JustinN. Look on page 23 of the manual where is says to make sure the recently reassembled magazine "freely ejects" if I remember the phrase.

[KennyFSU]

Page 20 on mine. Second paragraph.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b41/LSntegra/d3ef8a4a.jpg

[Thunder71]

Show me where it says this. I am holding my manual that I just got last week and it says "pushing the magazine catch...and pull the magazine from the magazine well".

See attached photo:

I'm holding my manual as well... here you go:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7022/6513510269_7eb75a62da_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cwnauman/6513510269/)
Untitled (http://www.flickr.com/photos/cwnauman/6513510269/) by N0YZE Photo (http://www.flickr.com/people/cwnauman/), on Flickr

[skiflydive]

It's like everyone stops reading where it says to pull the magazine from the well.

[JustinN]

On page 23 I see the "Ensure the empty, reassembled Magazine seats fully when inserted in the pistol, and ejects freely from its well when the Magazine Catch is depressed". In my opinion that part could then be open to interpretation, but I read that as "Make sure the reassembled mag goes in and out of the gun without a problem". It doesn't say "drop free" and while the term "ejects" could be confusing, I don't think this one line should override the "loading and unloading" portion which clearly states you must pull the mag free.....

[Thunder71]

Ejects freely from the well... doesn't say ejects partially then pull it out.

Can we keep this thread on track please, I'd like to get to the root cause as all of this has been addressed already and try and get some useful information on it.

We can discuss what the manual means in another thread if it's a desired topic.

[jocko]

n
JustinN. Look on page 23 of the manual where is says to make sure the recently reassembled magazine "freely ejects" if I remember the phrase.

Justin but my page 23 of my kahr manual is the inside back cover, which basically tells an owner how to send his gun back and where to etc, no reference to anything about the magazine.

I have read my manual front to back and I have yet to find that "freely ejects" quote . Now my manual is 5 years old but the guns have not changed, maybe some wording has changed. I guess it is a thing of is the glass half full or half empty.

I have stated in the past that of my two factory G19 magazines, one drops frreely the other sticks and for me I could give a rats ass. If I can't do it in 15 then I am already dead.

Just me but IMO way way to much to do about this mag drop stuff,we should be way more concerned about the splitting of the magazines.

Put this thread to sleep Justin:popcorn:

[KennyFSU]

What is this? The bible? Lol.

"Ejects freely from its well" is pretty cut and dry to me. Did my pictures help out any?

[JustinN]

My answer is the "root cause" is a gun designed to not drop free. My manual states you must remove the mags by hand, thus indicating the gun is designed to not drop free. There are four channels, pictured earlier in the thread, in my pistol, that rub the sides of the magazine. These prevent it from dropping free, and thus require pressure to push the mag into the gun, as well as to remove it.

Perhaps the older guns were designed differently. The new gun, and new manual does not drop free. If your mag seats correctly, feeds properly, etc, I do not see where the "problem" that needs addressing is. If some did, and some didn't, i'm guessing there are models, versions, etc that were designed to drop free, and others that were not. My manual says it must be removed by hand, so I do not expect anything else. I would say its a gun by gun basis, and if someone has a manual, in the loading and unloading section, that says the magazine will drop free of the gun, then their's was designed to drop free. I would not compare my gun to how their's functions, because once again my manual states the magazine will not drop free.