Government Strips Essential Rights

[MO_Soldier]

Please watch this short video.

Help my younger generation realize what is happening right in front of them!

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DNW-e7z7S6VI&h=QAQHHmSfh

[Tilos]

MO:
I've posted this before but you may not have seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQf_QfitmKE&feature=player_embedded

Tilos

[TriggerMan]

Please watch this short video.

Help my younger generation realize what is happening right in front of them!

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DNW-e7z7S6VI&h=QAQHHmSfh Let me be perfectly clear, I am AGAINST the Patriot Act and the new NDAA. I have no intention of voting to re-elect Obama. He should have vetoed these two Bills. Bush also should have vetoed the Patriot Act.

I think the younger generation is more awake to this attack on freedom than you give them credit for. It is the group between 40 and 60 which seem to take the attitude that it won't happen to them, so its OK. The government only pursues bad guys and I'm not a BG.

Besides voting for Ron Paul, assuming we get that chance, what do you feel any individual should be doing right now?

[TriggerMan]

MO:
I've posted this before but you may not have seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQf_QfitmKE&feature=player_embedded

TilosFor some reason, this guy pegs my BS meter into the red zone. Is he selling a book or DVDs?

[muggsy]

Please watch this short video.

Help my younger generation realize what is happening right in front of them!

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3 DNW-e7z7S6VI&h=QAQHHmSfh

Looks like Ron Paul is promoting himself through fear mongering. No American has been harmed by the Patriot Act, except for those who were actively engaged in promoting acts of terrorism. No American or foreign national has been assassinated accept for those who were actively engaged in promoting, or participating in, acts of terrorism. Put away your guns and allow the Supreme Court to Judge the constitutionality of this act. Let cooler heads prevail.

[Tilos]

TM:
Could be BS, which part?
At least it didn't turn into a Ron Paul add.

thanks for watching it and posting,
Tilos

[TriggerMan]

Looks like Ron Paul is promoting himself through fear mongering. No American has been harmed by the Patriot Act, except for those who were actively engaged in promoting acts of terrorism. No American or foreign national has been assassinated accept for those who were actively engaged in promoting, or participating in, acts of terrorism. Put away your guns and allow the Supreme Court to Judge the constitutionality of this act. Let cooler heads prevail.
"No American has been harmed".

You know this, how?

[hss.strat]

Oh boy...

One of the stars of the video. http://abcnews.go.com/US/fbi-manhunt-oath-keeper-charles-dyer-child-rape/story?id=14372935#.TvAjzPIzCuI

[John222]

The Patriot Act is very bad and the NDAA is even worse. Reminds me of V for Vendetta, the government scares us into giving up our constitutional rights. Now they can lock up Americans with out a trial for nothing more than suspicion. Hey now we are just like Egypt and Syria.

[dshideler]

I'm not real up to speed on ndaa but I read in another post that it only affects military personnel. I'd link the post but I'm not sure how to.

[JohnR]

Don't worry, the ACLU will fight the military internment thing.




Right?

The quickest way to get it overturned is for a Republican administration to use it to round up Muslims. Then you can bet the ACLU and the media will fight to the death to get it repealed or declared unconstitutional. Till then, government can do anything it wants to do.

[JFootin]

Well, what's to stop them from declaring martial law after a disaster, and start branding all Christians, conservatives, right wingers and licensed gun owners as enemies of the state? And so what if they haven't done it, yet (that we know of?) Those laws need to be removed from the books.

[muggsy]

"No American has been harmed".

You know this, how?

I know it because Kieth Olbermann hasn't ranted about it. Do you have any proof that any law abiding citizen has been harmed in any way by the patriot act?

[muggsy]

The Patriot Act is very bad and the NDAA is even worse. Reminds me of V for Vendetta, the government scares us into giving up our constitutional rights. Now they can lock up Americans with out a trial for nothing more than suspicion. Hey now we are just like Egypt and Syria.

During a time of war the rules are suspended. No one has given up any of their rights. Tell me exactly how you have been harmed by the Patriot Act?

[apheod]

Looks like Ron Paul is promoting himself through fear mongering. No American has been harmed by the Patriot Act, except for those who were actively engaged in promoting acts of terrorism. No American or foreign national has been assassinated accept for those who were actively engaged in promoting, or participating in, acts of terrorism. Put away your guns and allow the Supreme Court to Judge the constitutionality of this act. Let cooler heads prevail.

TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT MY FRIEND. americans used to have rights. the police (hell, the military these days, not much difference) used to HAVE to have a warrant to conduct surveillance on us citizens. nobody has been assassinated yet, because it was just legalized last week. the patriot act did not allow for assassinating US citizens. NDAA 2012 does. apparently these days, trials are overrated for those non-patriots who support terrorism.

if you think i'm fear mongering, paranoid, a conspiracy theorist... i'm sorry but you're ignorant and thinking if you keep your head in the sand long enough, everything will be fine and dandy. i'm sure there were people in 1930s **** germany who felt the same way.

don't be idiots, people. look back on history, and pay close attention to current events, comparing the two. history repeats itself, and those who don't learn histories lessons, are doomed to repeat it. don't say i didnt warn you.

by the way, i suppose you could call me part of today's "current generation," as i'm 28. i'm well aware of my surroundings.

[apheod]

During a time of war the rules are suspended. No one has given up any of their rights. Tell me exactly how you have been harmed by the Patriot Act?

heard of the war on "terrorism?" we are are war against a human emotion my friend, according to the powers that be.

[muggsy]

TOTAL AND COMPLETE BULLSHIT MY FRIEND. americans used to have rights. the police (hell, the military these days, not much difference) used to HAVE to have a warrant to conduct surveillance on us citizens. nobody has been assassinated yet, because it was just legalized last week. the patriot act did not allow for assassinating US citizens. NDAA 2012 does. apparently these days, trials are overrated for those non-patriots who support terrorism.

if you think i'm fear mongering, paranoid, a conspiracy theorist... i'm sorry but you're ignorant and thinking if you keep your head in the sand long enough, everything will be fine and dandy. i'm sure there were people in 1930s **** germany who felt the same way.

don't be idiots, people. look back on history, and pay close attention to current events, comparing the two. history repeats itself, and those who don't learn histories lessons, are doomed to repeat it. don't say i didnt warn you.

by the way, i suppose you could call me part of today's "current generation," as i'm 28. i'm well aware of my surroundings.

My head isn't in the sand and I still have all of my rights. I have thirty seven year of living experience over you my young friend. I suggest that you read what someone far more knowledgeable than either of us has to say and then pull your head out of your anal canal. I offer this link.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2011&month=10

[apheod]

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2011&month=10

i'm confused, you reply to me saying americans have had their rights substantially mitigated by posting a link to some BS about how a terrorist slipped through the cracks because the system held them back from prosecuting a real terrorist?

do you truly TRUST THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT (or any government... and think about that before you respond) to decide who does and who does not deserve rights? if so, mr T. pities you.

do you really want to start a link war with me? you really do not. i suggest a quick and quiet exit from the thread on your part.

[apheod]

My head isn't in the sand and I still have all of my rights. I have thirty seven year of living experience over you my young friend. I suggest that you read what someone far more knowledgeable than either of us has to say and then pull your head out of your anal canal. I offer this link.

http://www.hillsdale.edu/news/imprimis/archive/issue.asp?year=2011&month=10

by the way, the fact that you do not currently inhabit a concentration camp awaiting your execution in a gas chamber shower does not mean that you have all of your rights. i assure you, you have lost many of your rights, and that it has been done so surreptitiously that you do not even realize it.

[muggsy]

heard of the war on "terrorism?" we are are war against a human emotion my friend, according to the powers that be.

When they can't argue logic, liberals always argue semantics. We are fighting a war with terrorists, or have you forgotten 9/11?

[apheod]

so now i'm a liberal for thinking the constitution should be upheld?

i remember 9/11 all too well. in fact, i'd bet i've invested at least 10 times the manhours into researching and learning about that day as you have.

wars are fought and won or lost. terrorists exist because of our foreign policy for the most part. perhaps you could explain to me how this particular war can possibly be won or lost.

this war is a sham to justify the mitigation of our rights, because the powers that be know that such a war cannot be won or lost. it will go on forever.

do you really foresee a day when they will announce the war on terrorism has been officially won and is over? do you really think they'll start giving any of the rights they've gotten so adept at taking little by little so we don't notice back?

[muggsy]

by the way, the fact that you do not currently inhabit a concentration camp awaiting your execution in a gas chamber shower does not mean that you have all of your rights. i assure you, you have lost many of your rights, and that it has been done so surreptitiously that you do not even realize it.

Exactly what rights have I lost? I'm not a terrorist. I'm a law abiding citizen. The NDAA law applies to terrorists. The law passed in the Senate by an 86-13 vote. Are all of the 86 Senators evil men looking to strip you of your rights? Is Ron Paul the only knight in shining armor? Sorry, but I live in the real world.

[muggsy]

so now i'm a liberal for thinking the constitution should be upheld?

i remember 9/11 all too well. in fact, i'd bet i've invested at least 10 times the manhours into researching and learning about that day as you have.

wars are fought and won or lost. terrorists exist because of our foreign policy for the most part. perhaps you could explain to me how this particular war can possibly be won or lost.

this war is a sham to justify the mitigation of our rights, because the powers that be know that such a war cannot be won or lost. it will go on forever.

do you really foresee a day when they will announce the war on terrorism has been officially won and is over? do you really think they'll start giving any of the rights they've gotten so adept at taking little by little so we don't notice back?

Sorry, I didn't take you for a 9/11 truther. I thought that you had a little bit of sense, but were simply misguided. I can't argue with a fool. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. You can pull the plug now, Bawanna. :)

[apheod]

Exactly what rights have I lost? I'm not a terrorist. I'm a law abiding citizen. The NDAA law applies to terrorists. The law passed in the Senate by an 86-13 vote. Are all of the 86 Senators evil men looking to strip you of your rights? Is Ron Paul the only knight in shining armor? Sorry, but I live in the real world.

you need to look up the criteria the government has to define the word "terrorist." you're a member of this forum, i assume you own guns.

you're a suspected terorrist, and your 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 6th amendment rights could easily be stripped from you. why? you own guns. own more than 7 days worth of food? terrorist. better throw away those canned beans, towelhead.

[apheod]

Sorry, I didn't take you for a 9/11 truther. I thought that you had a little bit of sense, but were simply misguided. I can't argue with a fool. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

so now i'm a liberal for thinking the constitution should be upheld, and a "truther" for having researched the events of 9/11 which our government uses as the main excuse to strip us of our rights piece by piece?

if that's the excuse you need to exit the thread and feel as though you've vanquished the "non-patriots" go right ahead my friend. i concede, you win. you're the real american here.

[MikeyKahr]

:popcorn:

[muggsy]

so now i'm a liberal for thinking the constitution should be upheld, and a "truther" for having researched the events of 9/11 which our government uses as the main excuse to strip us of our rights piece by piece?

if that's the excuse you need to exit the thread and feel as though you've vanquished the "non-patriots" go right ahead my friend. i concede, you win. you're the real american here.

Apheod, I'm not your enemy. I'm not here to defeat you. I'm trying very hard to educate you. You are free to believe what you will. I don't share your fears. The founders put in place all that is necessary to keep the government in check. The true power lies in, We the People. We are both good Americans in our own ways.

[apheod]

That is exactly my point, the founders of this great country enshrined the rules which must be followed for this country to remain great within the constitution.

The problem these days, is that people are being led to believe its in their best interests to give up bits and pieces of their rights to ensure their safety. These essential rights laid out in the constitution are being worked around "for the good of the people."

Only its not in our best interests.

[hss.strat]

:popcorn: this is how civil wars break out.

[apheod]

the constitution is not flexible, negotiable, or rewritable IMO. if you feel otherwise, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are not a true american, again, IMHO.

[LMT42]

The founders put in place all that is necessary to keep the government in check.

The NDAA is nothing short of a veiled declaration of martial law. Holding an American citizen without providing due process is in direct violation of the 5th and 14th amendments. The government is pretty damn far from being in check.

It's beyond naive to believe the government will use this bill only against foreign terrorists. What happens when the Tea Party is declared a terrorist organization?

First they came for the terrorists, and I didn't speak out because I'm not a terrorist.....

[muggsy]

the constitution is not flexible, negotiable, or rewritable IMO. if you feel otherwise, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are not a true american, again, IMHO.

You should allow the Supreme Court to determine what is constitutional. You are not a judge. You just play one on this forum. :)

[apheod]

You should allow the Supreme Court to determine what is constitutional. You are not a judge. You just play one on this forum. :)

what?

ok, lets do this methodically.

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

unless of course, you are disruptive to society, such as the civil rights movement in the 60s and 70s, or the occupy wall street movement or today. in which case, you'll be warned to stop attempting to peaceably assemble (if you're lucky) and then you'll be beaten, tased, fired upon, maced, or tear gassed. god bless america. although i suppose congress didn't actually pass a law saying that was all legal, they just allowed the police to go ahead and do it.

Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[56]

but you only get to keep and bear arms if the federal government deems you able to do so through a background check, and obtaining the proper licenses. if you violate any of their laws (many of which are themselves unconstitutional, namely the drug laws) which happen to be felonies, sorry, but no more right to protect yourself. but it makes so much sense, we can't have drug users, crazy people, and extremists owning guns, you say. surely they should be allowed to infringe just a little bit of our rights, with it being common sense and all. me, i read that more literally than saying to myself "well, i'm sure this is how they intended that."

Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

ok, i'll give em that. they have yet to wipe their asses with that one, so far as i know.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

sheeeeeeit. do i really even need to go here? surely you are able to figure this one out for yourself. look up the patriot act, for god's sake.

Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

again, any intelligent person needs only read through the fine points of the patriot act and the NDAA acts of the last few years to realize this no longer applies, if they say you don't deserve this right because you're a "bad guy who wants to hurt people."

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

see NDAA 2012. do not pass go. do not collect a lawyer.

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

i dont believe they've yet figured a way to screw us out of this right.

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

ever heard of sensory deprivation torture? waterboarding? look up the way the CIA interrogated suspected communists in the 50s and 60s. i guarantee they do far worse to suspected "terrorists" these days, whether US citizens or not, even before NDAA 2012.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

don't even get me started here. this will get way more long winded than it already is.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

you mean like the states who think they can actually legalize a plant such as marijuana. yeah, right. the feds will still raid your dispensaries or your house if they think you're growing plants for too many of your friends, evil-doers.

thats one example. i could go on for DAYS about the instances of the federal government pretending they have the authority to override state's laws which do not impede the other rights we are supposed to be guaranteed.

that leaves what, two of our bill of rights they haven't mitigated, infringed, or just thrown out the window out of ten? do you really want to continue this discussion? i could sure use more of your "education" on how the federal government stripping me of my rights somehow will keep me safer.

before 9/11 (and since) i was never afraid of any terrorist, because i am confident in my ability to defend myself from just about any crazy person. those people in washington mitigating my rights though? they scare me.

the only bright point i see in this? they're advancing their agenda entirely too fast, and more and more americans are waking up everyday. the bad part about that? it might well come to civil war.

[JFootin]

Well said, apheod.

[tv_racin_fan]

Is it time yet?

[muggsy]

what?

ok, lets do this methodically.

First Amendment – Establishment Clause, Free Exercise Clause; freedom of speech, of the press, and of assembly; right to petition
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

unless of course, you are disruptive to society, such as the civil rights movement in the 60s and 70s, or the occupy wall street movement or today. in which case, you'll be warned to stop attempting to peaceably assemble (if you're lucky) and then you'll be beaten, tased, fired upon, maced, or tear gassed. god bless america. although i suppose congress didn't actually pass a law saying that was all legal, they just allowed the police to go ahead and do it.

Second Amendment – Militia (United States), Sovereign state, Right to keep and bear arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.[56]

but you only get to keep and bear arms if the federal government deems you able to do so through a background check, and obtaining the proper licenses. if you violate any of their laws (many of which are themselves unconstitutional, namely the drug laws) which happen to be felonies, sorry, but no more right to protect yourself. but it makes so much sense, we can't have drug users, crazy people, and extremists owning guns, you say. surely they should be allowed to infringe just a little bit of our rights, with it being common sense and all. me, i read that more literally than saying to myself "well, i'm sure this is how they intended that."

Third Amendment – Protection from quartering of troops.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

ok, i'll give em that. they have yet to wipe their asses with that one, so far as i know.

Fourth Amendment – Protection from unreasonable search and seizure.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

sheeeeeeit. do i really even need to go here? surely you are able to figure this one out for yourself. look up the patriot act, for god's sake.

Fifth Amendment – due process, double jeopardy, self-incrimination, eminent domain.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

again, any intelligent person needs only read through the fine points of the patriot act and the NDAA acts of the last few years to realize this no longer applies, if they say you don't deserve this right because you're a "bad guy who wants to hurt people."

Sixth Amendment – Trial by jury and rights of the accused; Confrontation Clause, speedy trial, public trial, right to counsel
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

see NDAA 2012. do not pass go. do not collect a lawyer.

Seventh Amendment – Civil trial by jury.
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

i dont believe they've yet figured a way to screw us out of this right.

Eighth Amendment – Prohibition of excessive bail and cruel and unusual punishment.
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

ever heard of sensory deprivation torture? waterboarding? look up the way the CIA interrogated suspected communists in the 50s and 60s. i guarantee they do far worse to suspected "terrorists" these days, whether US citizens or not, even before NDAA 2012.

Ninth Amendment – Protection of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

don't even get me started here. this will get way more long winded than it already is.

Tenth Amendment – Powers of States and people.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

you mean like the states who think they can actually legalize a plant such as marijuana. yeah, right. the feds will still raid your dispensaries or your house if they think you're growing plants for too many of your friends, evil-doers.

thats one example. i could go on for DAYS about the instances of the federal government pretending they have the authority to override state's laws which do not impede the other rights we are supposed to be guaranteed.

that leaves what, two of our bill of rights they haven't mitigated, infringed, or just thrown out the window out of ten? do you really want to continue this discussion? i could sure use more of your "education" on how the federal government stripping me of my rights somehow will keep me safer.

before 9/11 (and since) i was never afraid of any terrorist, because i am confident in my ability to defend myself from just about any crazy person. those people in washington mitigating my rights though? they scare me.

the only bright point i see in this? they're advancing their agenda entirely too fast, and more and more americans are waking up everyday. the bad part about that? it might well come to civil war.

Apheod, you are talking hypotheticals. Lets talk about what is, instead of what if. What is, is that the patriot Act has prevented more that 40 9/11s from occuring in this country since it was enacted. Thousands of lives have been saved. No one has lost a damn thing, except for the terrorists. Keep talking like you're talking and you might come under FBI and CIA scrutiny. You are exercising your right to free speech right now. I carry a gun every day. There are no soldiers quartered in my home. No one has lost their right to due process. A different set of rules apply to enemy combatants. If you are dissatisfied with the government there is a cure. It's called the ballot box. No one in America is elected president, senator or congressman for life. If it really bothers you, run for office yourself. I doubt that you'll get many votes, but it will be a good learning experience.

[JFootin]

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee486/John_England/Misc/o_gotta_go.jpg

[muggsy]

Love it, J.

[les strat]

Apheod, you are talking hypotheticals. Lets talk about what is, instead of what if. What is, is that the patriot Act has prevented more that 40 9/11s from occuring in this country since it was enacted. Thousands of lives have been saved. No one has lost a damn thing, except for the terrorists. Keep talking like you're talking and you might come under FBI and CIA scrutiny. You are exercising your right to free speech right now. I carry a gun every day. There are no soldiers quartered in my home. No one has lost their right to due process. A different set of rules apply to enemy combatants. If you are dissatisfied with the government there is a cure. It's called the ballot box. No one in America is elected president, senator or congressman for life. If it really bothers you, run for office yourself. I doubt that you'll get many votes, but it will be a good learning experience.


I'm sorry, but after reading all of your posts, you really do come across as really thinking that The Constitution is going to make everything ok because it exists. It is a useless piece of paper with politicians, lawyers, and judges foregoing it like we are seeing today. IMNSHO, too much can happen in four years for "We the People" to make a change. Meanwhile, most folks don't want to believe the govt of the US would do anything against its people and that the feds are out for all of our best interest. Fools. DC is just one big money making playground and they want to make it where they are untouchable (can you say legal congressional insider trading?), and are doing a damn good job at it. Don't get me started on the super committee. That is 100% unconstitutional.

I suggest you read last month's issue of The American Rifleman. There are a couple great articles that would serve well to educate you on the gradualism method of taking away people's rights. It happpens while citizens think everything is all fine and dandy with their nose down in there ipods and cell phones while governments pass laws to "protect the citizens", although it infringes on their civil liberties. Little laws that do not seem much until you look at the grand scale of what happened over 25 years or more. Next thing you know, they can jail you for anything they feel threatened by... a thought. A forum post. What kind of firearms you own. That's just wrong. Our governement is SUPPOSED to fear us!

If anyone thinks a plan is not in the works to erradicate individual and states rights, well, I'll let you get back to that ipod.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

[apheod]

Apheod, you are talking hypotheticals. Lets talk about what is, instead of what if. What is, is that the patriot Act has prevented more that 40 9/11s from occuring in this country since it was enacted. Thousands of lives have been saved. No one has lost a damn thing, except for the terrorists. Keep talking like you're talking and you might come under FBI and CIA scrutiny. You are exercising your right to free speech right now. I carry a gun every day. There are no soldiers quartered in my home. No one has lost their right to due process. A different set of rules apply to enemy combatants. If you are dissatisfied with the government there is a cure. It's called the ballot box. No one in America is elected president, senator or congressman for life. If it really bothers you, run for office yourself. I doubt that you'll get many votes, but it will be a good learning experience.

this is one of the most ridiculous, easiest to disprove arguments i've ever seen on this subject.

you first accuse ME of talking hypotheticals for stating FACTS, and then tell me the patriot act has prevented 40 9/11s in the last 10 years. hypothetically. i don't know, maybe you're right. in my opinion, even if you are correct, i would be willing to risk being killed at the hands of terrorists rather than GUARANTEE the loss of even a portion of my freedoms. at least i would have a fighting chance of defending myself from some crazy bastard with a bomb.

noone has lost a thing but the terrorists? you're talking out of your ass. i'm on break at work, but when i get home later, i'll barrage you with links to regular americans whose rights have been grossly violated by abuses of the patriot act. we have yet to see what they're going to do with all these new rights they signed into law last week with NDAA 2012, but i'm sure it will be even more unamerican.

i said nothing of soldiers being quartered in homes, in fact i stated that is one of the 2 rights in the original 10 that has not been stomped all over.

a different set of rules applies to enemy combatants... but who decides who the enemy combatants are? with these rules in place, it's basically left up to the "powers that be" to use their better judgement. suppose a smooth talking hitler like figure gets voted into office before people realize what he's all about? he'll have all the tools already at his disposal to do what he wishes, all he has to do is say "so and so is a terrorist." their criteria for defining a terrorist is so vague, basically anyone can be designated one.

i find it ironic you say that i'm lucky to be able to exercise my freedom of speech by criticizing the government online... and then tell me i'd better watch what i say, because it could be dangerous to say the wrong things. that's exactly the point. i would not be surprised at all to find that i'm already under scrutiny for drawing attention to the crimes of our government, even though i have never once advocated any type of violence. in fact, i believe a violent uprising is exactly what they want to provoke, so that they can crack down hard and still appear to be the good guys simply restoring order, and i absolutely am opposed to any type of offensive violent actions on the part of the people.

[apheod]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-03-09/justice/security.letters_1_fbi-s-patriot-act-national-security-letters-government-audit?_s=PM:LAW

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/153431/20110527/patriot-act-patriot-act-abuse-ron-wyden-tom-udall.htm

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/02/03/tens-of-thousands-of-patriot-act-violations-against-americans/

http://infowars.net/articles/december2005/091205Patriot_act.htm

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/03/fbi-tried-to-co/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act#Controversy

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4756403

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/03/documents-obtained-eff-reveal-fbi-patriot-act

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/11/01/a-decade-of-patriot-act-abuses/

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/09/doj_admits_abuse_of_patriot_ac.php

that took a google search and about 2 minutes. CMON!!!

[getsome]

All I really want to know is why won't the Federal Reserve allow an audit of Fort Knox? Is it possible there is no longer any gold there? If thats not the case then why not let us take a look at our money...

The Federal Government is nothing but a bunch of power hungry liars pulling the wool over the citizens eyes and taking our money at the point of a gun... Why else would the most powerful and feared branch of the Federal Government be the IRS...

I don't thint the Patriot Act is anything but a thinly veiled way for Government to strip the American people of their God given rights and control every action of their lives...

Thats all I have to say about that...

[muggsy]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/07/21/attack/main564189.shtml

http://articles.cnn.com/2007-03-09/justice/security.letters_1_fbi-s-patriot-act-national-security-letters-government-audit?_s=PM:LAW

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/153431/20110527/patriot-act-patriot-act-abuse-ron-wyden-tom-udall.htm

http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2011/02/03/tens-of-thousands-of-patriot-act-violations-against-americans/

http://infowars.net/articles/december2005/091205Patriot_act.htm

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/03/fbi-tried-to-co/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act#Controversy

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4756403

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/03/documents-obtained-eff-reveal-fbi-patriot-act

http://consortiumnews.com/2011/11/01/a-decade-of-patriot-act-abuses/

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/09/doj_admits_abuse_of_patriot_ac.php

that took a google search and about 2 minutes. CMON!!!

Every one of those links are to a leftist organization. Are you a leftist?

[muggsy]

I'm sorry, but after reading all of your posts, you really do come across as really thinking that The Constitution is going to make everything ok because it exists. It is a useless piece of paper with politicians, lawyers, and judges foregoing it like we are seeing today. IMNSHO, too much can happen in four years for "We the People" to make a change. Meanwhile, most folks don't want to believe the govt of the US would do anything against its people and that the feds are out for all of our best interest. Fools. DC is just one big money making playground and they want to make it where they are untouchable (can you say legal congressional insider trading?), and are doing a damn good job at it. Don't get me started on the super committee. That is 100% unconstitutional.

I suggest you read last month's issue of The American Rifleman. There are a couple great articles that would serve well to educate you on the gradualism method of taking away people's rights. It happpens while citizens think everything is all fine and dandy with their nose down in there ipods and cell phones while governments pass laws to "protect the citizens", although it infringes on their civil liberties. Little laws that do not seem much until you look at the grand scale of what happened over 25 years or more. Next thing you know, they can jail you for anything they feel threatened by... a thought. A forum post. What kind of firearms you own. That's just wrong. Our governement is SUPPOSED to fear us!

If anyone thinks a plan is not in the works to erradicate individual and states rights, well, I'll let you get back to that ipod.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

Calling our constitution a worthless piece of paper says a lot about you. Are you in fear of our government? Perhaps you're paranoid. I don't fear our government in the least. It must be terrible to live in a constant state of mistrust and fear. Why don't you leave the dark side and come into the light.

[apheod]

All I really want to know is why won't the Federal Reserve allow an audit of Fort Knox? Is it possible there is no longer any gold there? If thats not the case then why not let us take a look at our money...

The Federal Government is nothing but a bunch of power hungry liars pulling the wool over the citizens eyes and taking our money at the point of a gun... Why else would the most powerful and feared branch of the Federal Government be the IRS...

I don't thint the Patriot Act is anything but a thinly veiled way for Government to strip the American people of their God given rights and control every action of their lives...

Thats all I have to say about that...

but... but muggsy said...

10 years ago, i was labeled a crazy conspiracy theorist, thinking the worst because it appealed to me. 90 percent of people thought i was batshit insane.

today, after most of my predictions and warnings have come true, almost every intelligent american capable of critical thought sees that i was right all along, and now it's a growing majority of people who agree with me.

i'm not the kind of person to said atoadaso, but you know what? atoadaso. i-******-atoadaso.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOcycgXpms

kind of sucks being in the minority with everyone laughing at how ridiculous you sound, eh muggsy?

[apheod]

Every one of those links are to a leftist organization. Are you a leftist?

i'm a strict constitutionalist. ron and rand paul are just about the only politicians i would trust as far as i can throw.

you do realize the FBI admits to abusing the patriot act? the FBI and wikipedia are leftist organizations?

http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/203437/arrested-development-come-on.gif

[les strat]

Calling our constitution a worthless piece of paper says a lot about you. Are you in fear of our government? Perhaps you're paranoid. I don't fear our government in the least. It must be terrible to live in a constant state of mistrust and fear. Why don't you leave the dark side and come into the light.

Hitler would have loved someone like you. So would have Sadam.

The Constitution is just words on paper if the government is trampling all over it. It is only good if the people make the govt follow through with it. Any one with a lick of common sense should know that.

And yes, I fear a government that can pilfer in any of my business for any or no reason and can lock me up as "a threat" for exercising my 1st Ammendment rights because I might threatening to them. That's what the NDAA, SOPA, and Patriot Act allow. That's how most dictators come into power. Silence the opposition and any political dissent. Did you take world history by chance?

I just think you can't handle the thought that what you know might not always be or cpuld be changing. Again, read the quotes I put in my first post. You think they were just playing Yoda or something? If you think it can't happen here because you think all politicians will respect andf uphold The Constitution, well, I say it must be great to live in a constant state of ignorace.

For some reason, being patriotic has evolved into believing and upholding anuthing our country does as good and right, whereas the true meaning mean questioning and shaking them down when they fall out of line.

Listen, I don't have any notion of taking you out of your utopia and am not one to debate heavily on the internet, but it greatly concerns me when people do not think any harm can come to them and our leaders are all for the good of the people when DC has turned into a big money making arena.

Big untouchable government, whether Republican or Dem, is bad. Period.

Over and out on this one.

[LMT42]

Give it up Apheod, you're not going to convince Muggsy. It doesn't matter anyway; he's 65 and won't be fighting this war.

Trigger nailed it by noting that the under 40 crowd have their eyes wide open and we'll be the ones doing the heavy lifting. Some of these old guys will actually believe they're being taken to a pretty farm as they board the cattle cars.

Frankly, I think the government is speeding up the pace at which they tighten their grip due to the OWS movement. Next step is planting violent protesters so they can declare OWS a terrorist organization.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. George Orwell, 1984

[ltxi]

Hey....Merry Christmas All!!

[muggsy]

Give it up Apheod, you're not going to convince Muggsy. It doesn't matter anyway; he's 65 and won't be fighting this war.

Trigger nailed it by noting that the under 40 crowd have their eyes wide open and we'll be the ones doing the heavy lifting. Some of these old guys will actually believe they're being taken to a pretty farm as they board the cattle cars.

Frankly, I think the government is speeding up the pace at which they tighten their grip due to the OWS movement. Next step is planting violent protesters so they can declare OWS a terrorist organization.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. George Orwell, 1984

Your right LMT42. I won't be fighting this war. I served from 66-71. It's time for you young guns to start killing the enemy, but first you have to figure out who the real enemy is. I don't hold out much hope of that happening.

[muggsy]

Hey....Merry Christmas All!!

And to you a happy New Year. :)

[apheod]

Give it up Apheod, you're not going to convince Muggsy. It doesn't matter anyway; he's 65 and won't be fighting this war.

Trigger nailed it by noting that the under 40 crowd have their eyes wide open and we'll be the ones doing the heavy lifting. Some of these old guys will actually believe they're being taken to a pretty farm as they board the cattle cars.

Frankly, I think the government is speeding up the pace at which they tighten their grip due to the OWS movement. Next step is planting violent protesters so they can declare OWS a terrorist organization.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever. George Orwell, 1984

Planting violent protestors? Why, that's absolute nonsense. The globalists would never stoop to that level. Oh, wait...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUInlsNkebw

http://hercolano6.blogspot.com/2010/06/canada-undercover-police-provocateurs.html

I'm aware this was in Toronto. There's little difference in the agenda that's being pushed forth in most of the western countries, its just going to be much harder for them to do here because of our culture, believing we are the most free society, and the prevalence of firearms among the American public. Then of course you have that pesky constitution that we love to reference so much. They know they have to be especially careful and sneaky about how they do this here.

America is a sleeping giant, slowly waking up. It's people have shown time and again the great things that can be accomplished when everyone throws their weight behind something they feel is important enough. I just hope society hasn't been dumbed down so much by the materialistic comforts of socialist government "assistance," television, video games, and the convenience of having anything you need a store trip or internet order away, to realize there are far more important things in the world. Namely, freedom.

[yqtszhj]

Look at our national debt............. who/what is our enemy. That is going to drive where we are headed.