Are problem w/ my Karh posts scaring away buyers?

[Dueeast]

I'm new to this forum and new to Kahrs. That being said, when you mention "Kahr" in a conversation, someone inevitably mentions problems. So, I started to do some research before buying. (I have a CM9 waiting for me, all paid for at my dealer). This forum has plenty of information and good members willing to help. I guess what I'm driving at is this: 1. Does the negativity of the threads, problem here, nosedive there, ftf fte, scare away potential buyers? 2. I believe Kahrs must achieve some good % of 1st time reliability or they would have gone out of business (like the old AMT) years ago. 3.For every problem post, how many good guns go by without a post? 4. I had a NIB Colt defender that I bought last year, It had problems with the slide not returning to battery right out of the box.I cant see how it got past their quality control. I had to send it back, and they made it right. However, I wonder if manufacturers are cranking out pistols, and hoping for the best? Cutting costs at the quality control at the expense of fixing a problem under warranty? I'm rambling at this point, sorry. YOUR THOUGHTS ?????

[jocko]

remembner this is the internet, one can post what everhe wants about ay product any place he desires . Ur gonna love ur cm9, then u can make ur own decision if alot of what u read on the internet is b. s.or just plain on ol sh-t.

Quality control on any product is what it is. sometimes things just pass by them, sometimes they don't know it until theproduct is in our hands and being shot and used alot more than maybe what is done in the factory. If ur kahr gives u any issues there are great guys here that can give u advice on what to do and look for. Remember it is advice, u have a warranty and kahr will bust ass to help u also. We know here that some little piddly issues are solveablewithout sending them back but one has to know where to look and what to do, and that is where this forum comes to the top of the cup of coffee. We do have the cream here on this forum.

Fearnot when u get ur cm9 do the lube and prep as on the kahr tech section and ur gonna love that little pocket rocket.

[JFootin]

IMO, there are several things to understand about Kahrs:


They are high quality guns with an incredibly compact design.
99.xx% of them are flawless out of the box.
This is a Kahr sponsored, gun specific forum. So, you are going to see postings about maybe a high percentage of all of the problems that occur with these guns.
Those without any problems rarely post, or even ever come on the forum.
Many problems are the user, not the gun.
This forum does not delete most, if not all, of the negative posts like some gun specific forums do. Nor do they jump all over and bounce people who have a legitimate complaint.
Negative posts on other forums are usually from:
a. whiny owners who had a problem or 2 and never got over it,
b. owners of full size guns who put down Kahrs because of the required break-in, not taking into account the tight tolerances required in such a small package, and don't take into account that Kimber and many other makers specify a break-in period as well, and who are encouraged by forum mods to rag on other guns,
c. and trolls.

Do some people get turned off by this stuff? Yes. It's their loss on never enjoying ownership of one of the finest, smoothest triggered, pointable, easy shooting, light weight, super thin and compact self defense and concealed carry guns there is. :86:

[jocko]

kinda makes me sick to have to say it but nice post JFootin!!!! I couldn't have said it better (well that would be a lie to:D) but u did well.:popcorn:

[MW surveyor]

Reports of problems probably do scare away some people. I researched the CW9 for about 2 days before I went and bought one anyway, not that there were many negative things about it, but there were some.

That said, I'd be willing to bet that there is probably at least 99 out of 100 guns that work the way they should right out of the box. I guess I've been lucky in this regard or one of the 99 for every handgun that I've bought either new or used. Haven't got a bad one yet (and I'm knocking on wood or at least chipboard :) )

If you want to see a whole bunch of negative posts or guns with problems, just Google up Kimber! Nice high dollar gun but their buyers are very vocal when theirs does not work out of the box.

Dang, I've got to write faster to get in ahead of JFootin!:confused:

[jocko]

and for the price of a kimber, can one blame a buyer???

Our guyshere expect the same thing just they are more tempered than kimber owners, for as u know 1911's owners are like glock owners. THERE IS NO OTHER GUN.



course we know better!!

[sinac84]

I bought a NIB kimber tactical pro ii from my LGS and was so excited because this fine firearm was gonna be my new ccw and after 100 rounds it was nothing but issues and it cost more than twice what a new CW45 (what I CC with now) .I got my CW45 in a trade and I'm the 3rd owner and it has functioned perfectly. My point is, guns are like anything else u buy, some are none stop problems and cost thousands of dollars, some are cheap and run reliability forever. If you buy a Kahr and have an issue just send it in or get a refund.

[MW surveyor]

Our guys here expect the same thing just they are more tempered than kimber owners, for as u know 1911's owners are like glock owners. THERE IS NO OTHER GUN.

course we know better!!

Just so you know. I really, really, really like my 1911.

But I carry my CW9!

[Barth]

LOL!
http://cdn.menwithpens.ca/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/trolls2.png

[jocko]

thats bawanna and ol jocko. bawaqnna is the one playing with himself...I am only an observer!!!


damn, I love these bars.!!

[muggsy]

I'm new to this forum and new to Kahrs. That being said, when you mention "Kahr" in a conversation, someone inevitably mentions problems. So, I started to do some research before buying. (I have a CM9 waiting for me, all paid for at my dealer). This forum has plenty of information and good members willing to help. I guess what I'm driving at is this: 1. Does the negativity of the threads, problem here, nosedive there, ftf fte, scare away potential buyers? 2. I believe Kahrs must achieve some good % of 1st time reliability or they would have gone out of business (like the old AMT) years ago. 3.For every problem post, how many good guns go by without a post? 4. I had a NIB Colt defender that I bought last year, It had problems with the slide not returning to battery right out of the box.I cant see how it got past their quality control. I had to send it back, and they made it right. However, I wonder if manufacturers are cranking out pistols, and hoping for the best? Cutting costs at the quality control at the expense of fixing a problem under warranty? I'm rambling at this point, sorry. YOUR THOUGHTS ?????

Most of the problems that I had with my CM9 were recoil spring related. Only Kahr can tell you what the % of reliability is out of the box. I can tell you this. Now that my Kahr is running properly it is my favorite CC gun and my only EDC. I found the people in the service department to be knowledgeable courteous, helpful and prompt. They weren't satisfied until I was satisfied. Would I purchase another Kahr product? In a heart beat.

[Popeye]

I agree with Jocko and Jfootin. Ok so here's my .02. Buy the CM9 clean it lube it according to specs. Get to know the guns insides a well as the outsides. While watching TV rack the slide a couple hundred times just make sure you wear gloves.(I do this with all my new pistols know matter what brand or caliber they are)Get yourself a couple hundred rounds of target ammo, then go to the range and give the gun a chance to break in and for you to get used to firing a gun of it's size. I'd say shoot no more than 50 rounds through it (JMO)on the first outing then take home and clean and lube again, and check fo rany unusual wear marks. If you do have a few problems stay calm and don't get upset as this is perfectly normal. As mentioned the Karh is a tight fitting pistol for the type of pistol it is. I'm sure that if you give the gun a chance and you take your time and get comfortable with all the little things that comes with shooting such a small pistol you'll find that your going to have that pistol for a very long time. I can tell you from my own experiences,that even though I did not have any problems with my PM9 it took me way more than 200 rounds to get completely comfortable shooting it.

If you should have questions on your new gun about anything this site has more than a few people that are willing to help with any question you might have. Good luck and if your going to listen to anyone listen to the people who own Kahrs and know what there talking about.

[O'Dell]

I'm new to this forum and new to Kahrs. That being said, when you mention "Kahr" in a conversation, someone inevitably mentions problems. So, I started to do some research before buying. (I have a CM9 waiting for me, all paid for at my dealer). This forum has plenty of information and good members willing to help. I guess what I'm driving at is this: 1. Does the negativity of the threads, problem here, nosedive there, ftf fte, scare away potential buyers? 2. I believe Kahrs must achieve some good % of 1st time reliability or they would have gone out of business (like the old AMT) years ago. 3.For every problem post, how many good guns go by without a post? 4. I had a NIB Colt defender that I bought last year, It had problems with the slide not returning to battery right out of the box.I cant see how it got past their quality control. I had to send it back, and they made it right. However, I wonder if manufacturers are cranking out pistols, and hoping for the best? Cutting costs at the quality control at the expense of fixing a problem under warranty? I'm rambling at this point, sorry. YOUR THOUGHTS ?????

Here's just a couple of personal examples. Within the last few months I bought a Kimber and an STI. Both cost twice as much or more than any of the five Kahrs I've bought in the last five years. Both had the same problem of not going completely into battery as your Colt. I managed to fix the Kimber, but at an outlay of $60+ for new mags. The STI had to be returned to the factory for a new barrel and recoil assy. The five Kahrs were all 100%. I've been on the internet almost since there was one, and I learned that most opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them - zero. Had I been scared off Kahrs by some owner??? who had a problem I would have missed many hours of shooting enjoyment and the best small carry gun on the market. I guess the message is be careful who you listen to - they may have an agenda or maybe they don't know of what they speak.

BTW J, excellent post.

[kerby9mm]

The mk9 I bought in April has a little problem with the striker plate cocking cam when you pull the trigger in rapid fire Rich from Kahr called Fedx and they are picking it up tomorrow What more could you ask for from a warranty My mk40 that I bought in October is smooth as glass and exudes quality You take a chance when you purchase anything and if something is wrong with it you hope the manufacturer fixes it A problem can happen to the cheapest or the most expensive guns In my opinion Kahrs are great guns in both design and looks and so importantly size

[Rio Vista Slim]

I might (at 62 years of age) be older than most of the members of this forum. I began my handgun odyssey shooting revolvers, as a pre-teen. My first handgun was a Smith & Wesson Model 36.

Being an avid reader, I was influenced greatly by the likes of Skeeter Skelton, Jeff Cooper, George Nonte, Elmer Keith, and the gun writers of that time. As a result, I developed an extreme fondness for the 1911. Of course, back then you bought Colt or you didn't buy new.

With the advent of the internet, I also became a moderator and gun writer/tester for one of the 1911 forums.

Just because I'm older doesn't mean my brain is dead, yet!:D

While I was aware of Kahr Arms, I never gave the brand much thought, until I saw a new CM9 at my local gun shop. The pistol fit my hand perfectly, had the quality that I've since become familiar with, and possessed a wonderful trigger. The fact that the gun shot as well as it looked was an appreciated bonus.

As others have said, any gun company can sometimes send out a sub-standard product. How that company handles the customer in these situations is what becomes most important. While I've had zero problems with my Kahr, repeated posts indicate that Kahr Arms takes care of their customers. That speaks volumes about the kind of company Kahr Arms is.

While the CM9 is my first Kahr, it most assuredly will not be my last!

****By the way, my CM9 has become my every day carry pistol.****

[Thunder71]

I have a different view on it...

Any time I see a 'used' Kahr for sale I am tempted to buy it (and have a couple times) because I know the chances of it being just fine are very high (and they have been). I personally take advantage of the situation when someone doesn't spend a few moments with their new Kahr, it's money in my pocket. :)

[Barth]

The mk9 I bought in April has a little problem with the striker plate cocking cam when you pull the trigger in rapid fire Rich from Kahr called Fedx and they are picking it up tomorrow What more could you ask for from a warranty My mk40 that I bought in October is smooth as glass and exudes quality You take a chance when you purchase anything and if something is wrong with it you hope the manufacturer fixes it A problem can happen to the cheapest or the most expensive guns In my opinion Kahrs are great guns in both design and looks and so importantly size

+1
My MK40 Elite has been flawless following break in.
I did have FTF issues past the 200 round break in.
But after the 400 round mark, it's been totally reliable, accurate
and smooth as glass.

I did have self induced problems with initial disassemble and assembly.
Due to the initial tightness of the gun and my own incompetence.
I bent the slid stop spring and had fits getting it apart and together.
Now after break in and with a little knowledge and experience the procedure is cake.
Also the little monster throws grip screws and continues to loosen the slide stop screw.
But that's no big either.
(My P239 and S&W 629 do too)

You can find folks having problems with any gun if you look.
Glock, Sig whatever.

Kahr's are a tight gun compared to some though.
And seem to require a little extra work to get functioning properly.
My Sigs/Glock you just pull out of the box, load and shoot.
Still, the little Thoroughbred Kahr is worth the trouble to get to know
the care and feeding of.

Once broke in, the accuracy, function, quality and handling of the gun
is in the top tier of all handguns I've had the pleasure of firing.
(H&K, Beretta, Sig Sauer, Glock, Walther, Springfield...)

[O'Dell]

I have a different view on it...

Any time I see a 'used' Kahr for sale I am tempted to buy it (and have a couple times) because I know the chances of it being just fine are very high (and they have been). I personally take advantage of the situation when someone doesn't spend a few moments with their new Kahr, it's money in my pocket. :)

Two of my five Kahrs were used, PM45 and CW40, and both ran fine. In fact there's a used PM40 at my LGS that's been calling my name for a couple of weeks, but with the release of the CM40, the voice is getting weaker. I still think I'll hold out for the CM45 though.

[jocko]

my K9 was used, has nbever blimped once either. great shooter and it has the NYPD trigger and I shoot it alot better than my PM9.

[jeepster09]

I bought a NIB kimber tactical pro ii from my LGS and was so excited because this fine firearm was gonna be my new ccw and after 100 rounds it was nothing but issues and it cost more than twice what a new CW45 (what I CC with now) .I got my CW45 in a trade and I'm the 3rd owner and it has functioned perfectly. My point is, guns are like anything else u buy, some are none stop problems and cost thousands of dollars so are cheap and run reliability forever. If you buy a Kahr and have an issue just send it in or get a refund.


Just to be fair, your Kimber was not broke in with only 100 rounds through it. Most guns need a couple hundred just to break in. You should not of gave up so quick, although I can understand your frustration.

[Bkahrfull]

I have over 500 rounds through my K40 outta the box that I purchased earlier in the fall. Not one FTF or FTE. Just sayin!

[Barth]

I have over 500 rounds through my K40 outta the box that I purchased earlier in the fall. Not one FTF or FTE. Just sayin!

I think the micros tend to be a little more fussy when new.
3" barrel, stiff double captured recoil springs, super short slide action.
It's not just Kahr.
Reliable, accurate 3" autos are a challenge for manufacturers in general IMHO.

[TheTman]

As far as the Kimber goes, my buddy's wouldn't feel Gold Dot 230gr HP. The gunsmith at the store my buddy bought his Ultra Crimson Carry II at told him to try them again after he has about 800 rounds through it. Now that's a LONG break in. I have about 700 rounds thru my CW40 and around 500 thru my CW45, and carry on or the other most the time, usually the CW45 since it has the laser on it, and I like the .45 round.
I do think the .40 is darn near the equal if not even a touch better than the .45, but I just like the .45. I say the .40 is about equal just by comparing ballistics of the various brands. Often the .40 will have the more FPS/FPE than the same cartridge in .45, due to it's being loaded to much higher pressure. But the .45 leaves just a tad bigger hole, even if it doesnt expand, and I'll take that bigger hole.
On a side note, the "big" city i live near police department is trading in it's .40's for 9mm's. I have no idea why. Wish I knew who the supplier was and get in on some of those trade ins. Although I imagine they'll probably get melted down for scrap. :mad: I think they use S&W semi's.

[BuckeyeBlast]

Another thing worth noting is that there seemed to be a while where Kahr's service was sub par to a few other manufacturers, and therefore people would continually complain about problems that Kahr should've/could've fixed immediately. From what I understand, this may be getting better.

[Knight92]

When I purchased my CW9 I had read about the issues concerning build quality from reading all the comments on the web. What I realized was a lot of these people complaining had not done the break in, but purchased and turned around and shot the pistol, then threw a fit because it was not a Glock or what not and would have FTF or FTE. This lead me to be patient with mine and take it out and and clean it first. I have almost a thousand rounds through it now since August and not one issue, of any kind.

I hope you have as much enjoyment out of your Kahr as we all have

[ltxi]

kinda makes me sick to have to say it but nice post JFootin!!!! I couldn't have said it better (well that would be a lie to:D) but u did well.:popcorn:

..x2

[CJB]

When one buys the sportscar type of pistol, there are bound to be a few tuning hiccups.

[TriggerMan]

I'm new to this forum and new to Kahrs. That being said, when you mention "Kahr" in a conversation, someone inevitably mentions problems. So, I started to do some research before buying. (I have a CM9 waiting for me, all paid for at my dealer). This forum has plenty of information and good members willing to help. I guess what I'm driving at is this: 1. Does the negativity of the threads, problem here, nosedive there, ftf fte, scare away potential buyers? 2. I believe Kahrs must achieve some good % of 1st time reliability or they would have gone out of business (like the old AMT) years ago. 3.For every problem post, how many good guns go by without a post? 4. I had a NIB Colt defender that I bought last year, It had problems with the slide not returning to battery right out of the box.I cant see how it got past their quality control. I had to send it back, and they made it right. However, I wonder if manufacturers are cranking out pistols, and hoping for the best? Cutting costs at the quality control at the expense of fixing a problem under warranty? I'm rambling at this point, sorry. YOUR THOUGHTS ?????Recently the Kahr PM9 was discussed on SigForum. The overwhelming majority who commented had positive things to say. I had a PM9 for 6 months and sold it. Reliability was not an issue, the trigger just wasn't what I look for.

[TriggerMan]

As far as the Kimber goes, my buddy's wouldn't feel Gold Dot 230gr HP. The gunsmith at the store my buddy bought his Ultra Crimson Carry II at told him to try them again after he has about 800 rounds through it. Now that's a LONG break in. I have about 700 rounds thru my CW40 and around 500 thru my CW45, and carry on or the other most the time, usually the CW45 since it has the laser on it, and I like the .45 round.
I do think the .40 is darn near the equal if not even a touch better than the .45, but I just like the .45. I say the .40 is about equal just by comparing ballistics of the various brands. Often the .40 will have the more FPS/FPE than the same cartridge in .45, due to it's being loaded to much higher pressure. But the .45 leaves just a tad bigger hole, even if it doesnt expand, and I'll take that bigger hole.
On a side note, the "big" city i live near police department is trading in it's .40's for 9mm's. I have no idea why. Wish I knew who the supplier was and get in on some of those trade ins. Although I imagine they'll probably get melted down for scrap. :mad: I think they use S&W semi's.If the PD dumps a bunch of S&W 3913s, give me a shout please. It's on my list!