I've found myself wondering recently just how many officers, agents, LE folks of all flavors are using Kahr products either as back up on duty guns or off duty primary guns.
Any detectives carrying a Kahr as an on duty primary?
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I've found myself wondering recently just how many officers, agents, LE folks of all flavors are using Kahr products either as back up on duty guns or off duty primary guns.
Any detectives carrying a Kahr as an on duty primary?
I just ordered a CM9 to use as a back-up gun on duty and off duty. I currently carry a Glock 33 as my back-up/off-duty (we are issued the Glock 31).
With summer approaching, I decided I wanted a true pocket gun so I ordered the CM9. I really like all the pocket .380s, but .380 is no longer an approved caliber for off-duty use. We are allowed 9mm, .40, .357, .45.
CW45 off duty gun and PM45 on duty and off duty backup.
PM9. Both for on duty backup, and off duty. he he he... duty
CW45 some of the time, the other part of the time is XDM 45.
My on duty is a Sig 229.
I use my K40 as an off-duty weapon. Around here most officers don't even know that Kahr exists.
I frequently carry a K-40 in my narcotics assignment. I also have a P-40 that I will use once I have a few more rounds thru it.
I carried a PM9 when I did UC work.
p380 off duty in the pocket and when I get my new cm9 i'll carry that iwb. right now my glock 27/36 is my iwb gun.
very impressive here guys,
the more that some people larn and see about kahrs I think in time will be even more popular with LEO for off duty carry or BU. I would tend to think most leo depts, lean towards 15-17 round double stack semi's. Probably why kahr is not even more popular. I hope kahrs stays out of the double stack contest to...They shoiuld continue to work hard in making their single stacks reliable, and keep the quality there, and let the double stack boys fight it out some where else..
Kahrs would have no place in a uniformed duty officers holster but they sure make a good off duty or on duty backup gun.
I was mostly curious about plain clothes and detective types that may carry them. Some departments allow more flexiblility to those types.
I just had an officer yesterday ask me to get him a Taurus 738SS, little 380. Couple of the guys have those and they shoot good, but taking one apart friday (the guy threw the manual away of course and couldn't figure it out they are the not great quality level. Not bad but not great.
I think my guy will be getting a CM9, he doesn't know it yet but I can feel it.
u should not have any problem lureing him away from that taurus to a CM9, just two total quality guns. Do u realize that to date we hv enot have one cm9 that had to go back to kahr and about 2 that even needed some tweeking and smoothing uip alittle. To me speaks highly of what kahr is sticking in the boxes today. I always put the taurus in about the same class as the kel tecs and I have been told that today taurus is now a better gun than kel tec...
Bawanna my dept has just under 1200 officers and I am aware of at least 2 dozen plain clothes officers that carry Kahrs as their primary duty weapon.
I agree that a Kahr is woefully inadequate as a on duty uniformed primary weapon. As good as the Kahrs are there are SOOOO many far superior weapons for uniform carry.
jocko you are right. Kahr has a nitch market where they are. They could not hope to successfully compete in the full sized uniform carry market. Glock, Springfield Armory, S&W, SIG have that market locked up tight.
Holy Moly, 1200 officers!:eek: We have 26 ? including 5 sgts, and 3 detectives. 1200, I'd be insane in a week. Course you probably got a ton more office pukes to deal with all the stuff too. That's big!
just picked up the Cm9 for back up/ off-duty use. If my new holster comes in by Friday I will be using it for my Off-duty security detail
I carry my PM9 IWB off duty and in pocket holster as a backup when on duty.
We have two officers with PM9s the DLC. They have had them probably close to 2 years now. Neither officer did any prep, not sure they even cleaned them before they took them up shot a little and did a qual.
Neither has had any mentioned issues. They are carried for on duty backup and off duty.
I'm not sure either has 300 rounds thru it yet. I sometimes worry if they have shot them enough to be reliable but apparently they are confident in them so I try to keep my worries to myself.
Sadly I failed to talk this latest officer out of the Taurus for a CM. He had it in his head thats' what he wants. He's an idiot but also a good friend. I know friends shouldn't let friends do stuff like this but I did the best I could.
:behindsofa: Well, now I know who the LEOs are on this forum...
A little off-topic, but some of you guys might find this interesting. Even "the best" may not be. http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/...nreliable.html
Hmm, me thinks a little hinky pinky is going on there. Sigs used up in like 5 years? Funny the director didn't have any issues with his Kimber and many bought them even though they were unreliable. Wonder if those were from the old external extractor days that Kimber suffered thru. Might be.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadhead1971
some of those exact same Kimbers (3" and 4") are at a local shop. I have held one. They are selling for $1,250 plus tax. Ouch. Too much. This particulat shop is not a Kimber dealer. They got the guns in a deal / trade. When I asked them about the history, they had no clue. Also, I asked to see one of the 3" models (ultra), and the guy behind the counter said, which ones are they. I had to point out the ultra. Red flag. I ended up with a Kimber Raptor from another shop. I'll post my review in the appropriate thread maybe later.
Since others have outed themselves.... I carry a PM9 as my covert weapon. I liked another brand for a long time but M insisted I give it a try. It proved itself when I was jumped by a battalion of hostels and held them off with the 6 round mag M had modified to grow additional rounds until I could activate the rocket pack I carried in my back pocket.
Since then I wouldn't part with my PM9, no matter how hard Moneypenny tries to seduce it away from me.
Lincoln.... Old Lincoln :rolleyes:
Shaken, not stirred.
My PM9 shares off duty time with my M&P 340, IWB or in a pocket, during warmer weather. Mostly carry a Glock 26 or Glock 23 during cooler weather in paddle or belt slide holsters.
I'm not a LEO, but my brother in law is.....hey that reminds me that I once slept in a Holiday Inn Suites once...
Any way, I try and carry either my PM45 or Kimber Ultra raptor as my promary withmy PM9 in my rt front pcket holster, and somtines either a BU of a Sig 238 or my little NAA "PUG" 22 magnum in my left front pocket. The only problem I have now is keeping my britches up wher they belong.....????
Sooo many fine guns and soooo little time.
Thats the sad thing, you carry one, you wanna carry em all.
I sort of have my own version of no child left behind but you reach a point where its just too much to carry.
Have you tried suspenders?Quote:
Originally Posted by DKD
Seeems NC ALE doesn't get it...what just a couple of years ago they suffered all kind of scorn because they had spent a bundle on SIG assualt rifles for every officer when the NC State Patrol didn't even have them.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadhead1971
Now who would you think needs it more...hmmm.
http://www.raleighgawker.com/north-c...******-central
Well the censor got me- replace the ******* above with the common term for a dumb donkey, 7 letters:angel:
Ya'll gotta go read it especially the part about securing their weapons with their handcuffs cause they kept getting stolen out of their unlocked cars....then one shoots himself putting the cuffs on his gun, whereby they were then instructed to unload them first:2eek:
pm 40 for off duty carry..had an xdsc but prefer the kahr....carry a sig 238 to back the kahr but thinking of going to a pm9 for a off duty back up
PM9 and/or P380 as backup and off duty.
CM9, and you'll have enough money left over to buy an IWB and a pocket holster for it. Plus, 9mm is a much more potent round than 380.
I carry a PM9 in a Mitch Rosen OWB holster for off duty.
pm 45 daily with two etra mags and a p380 :) good stuff
CW 9 off duty, some on duty.
Just curious...
I see alot of LEO's are carying .45's and 9's while off duty, and some as back up weapons. To each is own. I would think you would want something smaller and lighter like a .380? Any reason you guys are not carrying the Kahr P380?
whenI can carrymy PM9 in 95% of the same plceson my body, why go down in caliber. The P38 which I have is small but so is my PM9..
when I can carry my PM9 in 95% of the same plaeces on my body, why go down in caliber. The P380 which I have is small but so is my PM9..
From professional experince I have alway looked at the 380 as what you carry when you don't really want to carry a gun...Many small 9's and 45's are only marginally bigger.
I would not trust my life to a 380. PERIOD A 380 is only margnially useful as a last ditch contact weapon. I have seen WAY too MANY 380s fail to penetrate heavy clothing, heck I know an officer that thankfully had a 380 bounce off his hard head with nary more than a scratch. And it was a direct on frontal hit not a glancing blow.
I cannot slam the 380 as a self defense round enough. Sorry but thats my experience.
This is ony a portion of the article the rest wouldn't fit
.25ACP-
# of people shot- 68
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.2
% of people who were not incapacitated- 35%
One-shot-stop %- 30%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 62%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 49%
.22 (short, long and long rifle)
# of people shot- 154
# of hits- 213
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.38
% of people who were not incapacitated- 31%
One-shot-stop %- 31%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 60%
.32 (both .32 long and .32 acp)
# of people shot- 25
# of hits- 38
% of hits that were fatal- 21%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.52
% of people who were not incapacitated- 40%
One-shot-stop %- 40%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 78%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 72%
.380 ACP
# of people shot- 85
# of hits- 150
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.76
% of people who were not incapacitated- 16%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 62%
.38 Special
# of people shot- 199
# of hits- 373
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.87
% of people who were not incapacitated- 17%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 55%
9mm Luger
# of people shot- 456
# of hits- 1121
% of hits that were fatal- 24%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.45
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 34%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 74%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 47%
.357 (both magnum and Sig)
# of people shot- 105
# of hits- 179
% of hits that were fatal- 34%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.7
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 44%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 61%
.40 S&W
# of people shot- 188
# of hits- 443
% of hits that were fatal- 25%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.36
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 45%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 76%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 52%
.45 ACP
# of people shot- 209
# of hits- 436
% of hits that were fatal- 29%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 2.08
% of people who were not incapacitated- 14%
One-shot-stop %- 39%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 85%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 51%
.44 Magnum
# of people shot- 24
# of hits- 41
% of hits that were fatal- 26%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.71
% of people who were not incapacitated- 13%
One-shot-stop %- 59%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 88%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 53%
Rifle (all Centerfire)
# of people shot- 126
# of hits- 176
% of hits that were fatal- 68%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.4
% of people who were not incapacitated- 9%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 81%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 80%
Shotgun (All, but 90% of results were 12 gauge)
# of people shot- 146
# of hits- 178
% of hits that were fatal- 65%
Average number of rounds until incapacitation- 1.22
% of people who were not incapacitated- 12%
One-shot-stop %- 58%
Accuracy (head and torso hits)- 84%
% actually incapacitated by one shot (torso or head hit)- 86%
Many departments don't allow 380's for back up or off duty. I've heard of a few recently (rumor only) that used to allow them but no longer do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackalope33b
Mine does allow them. So far we have 3 of the Taurus 380's. A couple PM9's (wonder who recommended that) and the vast majority are using G30's for backup and off duty since our issue 21's mags will interchange.
I got no use for a 380 myself and very little use for a 9 but thats just my personal mindset. Many are perfectly confident with a 9 and that's perfectly fine, confidence in your chosen weapon is what it's all about.
I used to train in martial arts with some Hillsborough county sheriffs (Florida).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bawanna
Some of them used Sig Sauer P232 .380 as back up. But it seemed more common for people to use compact versions of their service weapons in the same caliber. Particularly Glocks where various models could share mags.