Happiness is a new gun 2

[Barth]

You have to reserve a lane at the gun range?

Don't have to.
I'm a member, so I can reserve an indoor lane for an hour in advance for free.
No waiting, no muss, no fuss - LOL!
Programmable action target carriers with preloaded mags, I can be in and out easy peasy.
Just received 2K 9mm target rounds to get busy with

[BirdsThaWord]

Congratulations Barth! Sounds like one sweet pistola!

[dao]

Barth, I'm looking forward to hearing a range report. When you say the DA is "out of this world", do you mean like a Kahr but lighter? Or different from that?

Sounds like it might be like an HK LEM? I can't base that on anything I know because I've never had or felt the LEM variant but it is supposed to be light and smooth also. Regardless, having a DA/SA with a DA pull that you like that much would be a great thing. Congrats on getting that work done, and for such a good price too!.

[Barth]

Barth, I'm looking forward to hearing a range report. When you say the DA is "out of this world", do you mean like a Kahr but lighter? Or different from that?

Sounds like it might be like an HK LEM? I can't base that on anything I know because I've never had or felt the LEM variant but it is supposed to be light and smooth also. Regardless, having a DA/SA with a DA pull that you like that much would be a great thing. Congrats on getting that work done, and for such a good price too!.

I've got a trigger gauge inbound to check.
I'm guessing it's around 8 lbs DA and 4 lb SA.
The DA is just very smooth and glassy with no stacking and a clean break.
Feels very much like my tuned S&W revolver double actions.

Kahr, at least my MK40 Elite, is actually a striker fired gun with the striker already cocked.
It's not really a double action trigger at all IMHO.
The CZ trigger isn't lighter, but it's a true double action trigger.

HK LEM is sort of a unique animal.
It's a hammer fired DA/SA gun.
But the hammer has two pieces and under normal operation the cocking piece remains cocked even though the hammer is down.
The result is a same pull every time single action (about 5 lbs) with full double action (about 8 lbs?) second strike capability.
There is a very long, very light pre-travel to a wall.
Then a SA like 5 lbs break.
For me, it's like getting striker trigger like performance from a hammer fired gun.

It will be interesting to use the trigger gauge on my tuned Sig P220/P229/P239 guns.
And my S&W revolvers for that matter.

It's the buttery smooth glassy double action of the CZ that really impresses.
It's very close to my S&W M65-3 K Frame 357 trigger.
And that's saying something.
Bought that gun LNIB for $525 and have no idea what may have been done to it ...

I did let the gun shop guy try the CZ DA trigger and he was blown away

[dao]

Yes, the Kahr is striker fired, and partially pre-cocked. However for all intents and purposes it feels most like a DA revolver. I was wondering if the DA pull on your hammer fired CZ felt like the DA pull on your striker fired Kahr. Or if your CZ felt like what I've heard HK LEM's described as. The LEM is not a DA/SA gun. It is DAO gun. But not like the DAK of a Sig. Right?

[dao]

Installed front FO sights on my Garrison and RIA today, and a full set on my Tisas (from Tisas), with a blacked out U-notched rear and an FO front.

Can't make up my mind if the green or the red shows up better. I lean toward the green, however my wife said she sees the red as brighter.

[Barth]

Yes, the Kahr is striker fired, and partially pre-cocked. However for all intents and purposes it feels most like a DA revolver. I was wondering if the DA pull on your hammer fired CZ felt like the DA pull on your striker fired Kahr. Or if your CZ felt like what I've heard HK LEM's described as. The LEM is not a DA/SA gun. It is DAO gun. But not like the DAK of a Sig. Right?

That's not my understanding of it.
I'm not sure how to explain LEM.
It's not DAO.
The hammer is a two-piece affair.
With the hammer down and without racking the slide it's a DA/SA gun.
You get the standard heavy first trigger pull, with a light trigger on follow up shots.
But when you rack the slide the cocking piece part of the trigger stays cocked.
Even though the external hammer comes back down the cocking piece is still cocked.
In this mode you have a very long, very light trigger pull, up to a wall.
Then a light about 5 lbs SA like trigger pull.
And the same exact 5 lbs SA like trigger pull on follow up shots.
The cocking piece is pre-cocked (like a striker) in normal operation making the first pull SA like.
If you pull the trigger and the round does not fire, the slide doesn't drive back and extract the round,
then the cocking piece is not pre-cocked anymore.
Now you have second strike capability with a standard heavy double action trigger.
I hope that makes any sense at all.
There are videos and discussions on the net on how LEM functions.

The MK40 trigger is lighter maybe?
But being a pre-cocked striker, to me, there's no discernable wall and very little feel to it.
A real DA revolver has a different feel to me.
The CZ has closer to a true DA revolver feel to me

[dao]

That's not my understanding of it.
I'm not sure how to explain LEM.
It's not DAO.
The hammer is a two-piece affair.
With the hammer down and without racking the slide it's a DA/SA gun.
You get the standard heavy first trigger pull, with a light trigger on follow up shots.
But when you rack the slide the cocking piece part of the trigger stays cocked.
Even though the external hammer comes back down the cocking piece is still cocked.
In this mode you have a very long, very light trigger pull, up to a wall.
Then a light about 5 lbs SA like trigger pull.
And the same exact 5 lbs SA like trigger pull on follow up shots.
The cocking piece is pre-cocked (like a striker) in normal operation making the first pull SA like.
If you pull the trigger and the round does not fire, the slide doesn't drive back and extract the round,
then the cocking piece is not pre-cocked anymore.
Now you have second strike capability with a standard heavy double action trigger.
I hope that makes any sense at all.
There are videos and discussions on the net on how LEM functions.

The MK40 trigger is lighter maybe?
But being a pre-cocked striker, to me, there's no discernable wall and very little feel to it.
A real DA revolver has a different feel to me.
The CZ has closer to a true DA revolver feel to me

The bold parts are where I think we don't agree. AFAIK there is no SA function in an LEM. They are only a DA trigger. What you are describing sounds like the DAK (Double Action Kellerman), that SIG produced, but LEM's don't work that way. Or at least I don't think they do.

Kahr strikers are not fully cocked when the slide cycles. They are only partically cocked, and then the trigger pulls them back the rest of the way. That's the reason they "resemble" a revolver action in the feel of the trigger.

[Barth]

The bold parts are where I think we don't agree. AFAIK there is no SA function in an LEM. They are only a DA trigger. What you are describing sounds like the DAK (Double Action Kellerman), that SIG produced, but LEM's don't work that way. Or at least I don't think they do.

Kahr strikers are not fully cocked when the slide cycles. They are only partically cocked, and then the trigger pulls them back the rest of the way. That's the reason they "resemble" a revolver action in the feel of the trigger.

Maybe a better way to put it is - LEM is a DAO trigger with two pull weights.
One heavy and the other lite with a partial pre-cock.
Although in normal operation you would never feel the heavy trigger pull.
There are also variants of LEM (V1, V2, V4.1 ... for P Series guns) with various trigger pull weights.
Mine are all Light LEM which is about 4.5 lbs (my HK45c is gunsmith measured at 3.9 lbs).
The trigger has a very long lite pre-travel, followed by a distinct wall and then a crisp break.
IMHO that's certainly SA like to me

My Kahr striker gun doesn't resemble a revolver action to me in any way.
Even only partially cocked, for me, there's no sensation of cocking anything.
It's super lite with no feel to it at all.
No wall with a surprise break.

The Kahr and HK LEM are, to me, unique trigger systems unlike any other guns I own.
Although the descriptions of the Para Ordnance LDA trigger, by the Colonel, sound similar to LEM

The CZ 75 Compact is an Old School classic DA/SA semi-auto with an exemplary DA trigger (after tuning)
Cajun Gun Works is Barth Approved

[dao]

Well, you own them and I don't, so I'm gonna have to change my understanding to what you've experienced. Thanks for the info!

I would also someday like to handle one of the CZ, or make that two, one factory and one like yours that has been cajun-ized. I've lightened the hammer spring of many of my Berettas and HKs and thought the DA pull was great, and followed by crisp SA followup shots. But it sure sounds like the CZ could put all of them to shame! Congrats again on getting some work done that is entirely satisfactory.